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  1. #21
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    And let's be honest Caydee is just not the pwetty princess type.

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    [QUOTE=Sylvia;3902866]Pasquale Camerlengo choreographed D/C's POTO free skate and their original SP to a swing medley that was replaced by "Aranjuez" (choreographed by Sappenfield after 2012 Champs Camp).


    I also find this interesting because the judges hated the swing number but loved the number choreographed by Sappenfield...hmmm..I see this happens a lot. The judges hate the music or choreography done by the "professional choreographer" then Sappenfield does the numbers and her teams win yet she is a bad choreographer..I just find it confusing.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by figureit View Post
    I also find this interesting because the judges hated the swing number but loved the number choreographed by Sappenfield...hmmm..I see this happens a lot. The judges hate the music or choreography done by the "professional choreographer" then Sappenfield does the numbers and her teams win yet she is a bad choreographer..I just find it confusing.
    Because the judges like Sappenfield's choreography doesn't make her a good choreographer: it makes her a useful choreographer, just as V/T's and Ando's high CH and TR marks for rlatively empty programs don't make Morozov a good choreographer. The judges were enchanted by Bauil's Olympic programs, even that badly cut, vulgar FS program.

    Some programs need time and breaking in, but there's pressure to scrap things that don't get good immediate results or feedback. There's no guarantee that the judges would have rewarded later performances by D/C of Camerlengo's program, but, for strategic reasons, Sappenfield changed it, just like Morozov changed Takahashi's SP.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 04-17-2013 at 10:13 PM.
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  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=kwanfan1818;3903596]
    Quote Originally Posted by figureit View Post
    Because the judges like Sappenfield's choreography doesn't make her a good choreographer: it makes her a useful choreographer, just as V/T's and Ando's high CH and TR marks for rlatively empty programs don't make Morozov a good choreographer. The judges were enchanted by Bauil's Olympic programs, even that badly cut, vulgar FS program.

    Some programs need time and breaking in, but there's pressure to scrap things that don't get good immediate results or feedback. There's no guarantee that the judges would have rewarded later performances by D/C of Camerlengo's program, but, for strategic reasons, Sappenfield changed it, just like Morozov changed Takahashi's SP.
    After Champs camp they changed it no one wants to change it even for their own reasons that late in the season so I am guessing at that level USFS has a HUGE say in what programs are done, by whom, and to what music etc. So my guess is it involved those reasons and not Sappenfields own reasons or any coaches own reasons.. or at least that's what it seems to me. Unless you have personal knowledge of something else I am thinking they do champs camp to approve, improve, and or change so they can get the best programs done for that year.

    Also I am not saying she is the best but interesting that she did win the award for choreography going to be given at Champs Camp this year for the best Senior Pairs program at Nationals. So others may not like her but as long as the judges like her and she is winning awards for choreography I would not mind seeing more of it from her. It seems her teams usually seek out choreographers though so whatever works for the team is what is best.

    Also whether or not the judges like it, score it well, is actually the most important as an audience does not give someone a gold medal judges do. It is awesome if the crowd is involved and I am not saying it does not help a program but truly judges liking it and scoring it well does make it a good program. Whether one person likes that type of choreography does not make it poor choreography either. Everyone has their preferences obviously yours are not what Sappenfield does I happen to think it is brilliant that if a choreographer doesn't work out and a program is adjusted the fact she can do that and do it well enough to win the best choreographed program at Nationals for Championship pairs is a plus for a pair team because you never know what will happen and having that skill is impressive.

    I happen to agree that it does take time and a pair team or dance or singles wanting to do what is right for them should be the priority and NOT changed at Champs Camp because USFS or certain judges do not like a program that is so new? I think it is nuts that a team/family spend so much money on costumes etc to have it scrapped because at Champs camp they did not like it...what is the point of that? I guess there is good and bad in it but I always found it wasteful and hard on families/skaters that worked so hard. I remember one year a skater got all her programs and outfits all set and the judges/usfs did not like anything she did and she had to change it all?

    So lets hope they like D/C programs because I like them or the idea of them. Also the article said "WE are pretty sure they are skating to Casablanca" hope that means they do because I like that program for them too.

  5. #25

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    Friendly tip for quoting posts: make sure the [/QUOTE] end tag closes the portion of the post being quoted.

    ETA from the IN article:
    "I think we're doing the same competition that we did last year in Denver as a kind of tune-up for Champs Camp," Coughlin said.
    The Colorado Championships in Arvada, CO is usually held in early August - exact dates are not yet listed online that I can find. The preliminary dates for 2013 Champs Champ are Aug. 19-25.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 04-17-2013 at 10:15 PM.
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  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=figureit;3903648]
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post

    After Champs camp they changed it no one wants to change it even for their own reasons that late in the season so I am guessing at that level USFS has a HUGE say in what programs are done, by whom, and to what music etc. So my guess is it involved those reasons and not Sappenfields own reasons or any coaches own reasons.. or at least that's what it seems to me. Unless you have personal knowledge of something else I am thinking they do champs camp to approve, improve, and or change so they can get the best programs done for that year.

    Also I am not saying she is the best but interesting that she did win the award for choreography going to be given at Champs Camp this year for the best Senior Pairs program at Nationals. So others may not like her but as long as the judges like her and she is winning awards for choreography I would not mind seeing more of it from her. It seems her teams usually seek out choreographers though so whatever works for the team is what is best.

    Also whether or not the judges like it, score it well, is actually the most important as an audience does not give someone a gold medal judges do. It is awesome if the crowd is involved and I am not saying it does not help a program but truly judges liking it and scoring it well does make it a good program. Whether one person likes that type of choreography does not make it poor choreography either. Everyone has their preferences obviously yours are not what Sappenfield does I happen to think it is brilliant that if a choreographer doesn't work out and a program is adjusted the fact she can do that and do it well enough to win the best choreographed program at Nationals for Championship pairs is a plus for a pair team because you never know what will happen and having that skill is impressive.

    I happen to agree that it does take time and a pair team or dance or singles wanting to do what is right for them should be the priority and NOT changed at Champs Camp because USFS or certain judges do not like a program that is so new? I think it is nuts that a team/family spend so much money on costumes etc to have it scrapped because at Champs camp they did not like it...what is the point of that? I guess there is good and bad in it but I always found it wasteful and hard on families/skaters that worked so hard. I remember one year a skater got all her programs and outfits all set and the judges/usfs did not like anything she did and she had to change it all?

    So lets hope they like D/C programs because I like them or the idea of them. Also the article said "WE are pretty sure they are skating to Casablanca" hope that means they do because I like that program for them too.
    Out of reps for you... Well said, figureit
    Last edited by kwanette; 04-17-2013 at 10:31 PM.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkbiggestfan View Post
    Denney in a pwetty princess role. What a match-made in heaven!
    For the SP, perhaps.

    For the Free Skate, which will be to the music from Casablanca, though? That has potential to be a serious trainwreck .

    Caydee Denney is no Ingrid Bergman, and John Coughlin is no Bogart, that's for sure. She has way too much Perk to capture the luminous, subtle sexiness of Ilsa Lung, and he definitely lacks the brooding, dark, cynical magnetism of Rick Blaine.

    If any Pairs team could pull of skating to Casablanca, IMO, it's V/T

    Quite frankly, I could see a Casablanca program being much more effective and successful in Ice Dance, with Tessa and Scott portraying Ilsa and Rick

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Friendly tip for quoting posts: make sure the
    end tag closes the portion of the post being quoted.

    ETA from the IN article:

    The Colorado Championships in Arvada, CO is usually held in early August - exact dates are not yet listed online that I can find. The preliminary dates for 2013 Champs Champ are Aug. 19-25.[/QUOTE]

    Sorry about the quote I posted and the website logged me out then I logged back in a continued to post as an answer to a quote as I do and if it messed up it was a website thing. It has never done that before that way so it was strange but not something I could have fixed sorry again.I will contact the web manager with the error.

    I had no idea Champs Camp was in August? I thought it was actually earlier to have to change a program in August would be horrible! If the judges and USFS are doing Champs Camp to help skater(s) finalize and approve a program it should FORSURE be held sooner!

  9. #29

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    We have a 24-hour window to edit/correct our own posts by using the "Edit Post" button on the bottom left.

    ETA: Champs Camp used to be held in June (2007-2009) for all Team A and B envelope skaters, but was moved to August in 2010 when the focus shifted to the skaters who have Senior Grand Prix assignments.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 04-17-2013 at 11:49 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  10. #30
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    Maybe Denney, Coughlin, and Gold could do a trio number to Schindler's List and cheese their entire way through it together.

  11. #31

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    [QUOTE=figureit;3903648][QUOTE=kwanfan1818;3903596]

    After Champs camp they changed it no one wants to change it even for their own reasons that late in the season so I am guessing at that level USFS has a HUGE say in what programs are done, by whom, and to what music etc. So my guess is it involved those reasons and not Sappenfields own reasons or any coaches own reasons.. or at least that's what it seems to me. Unless you have personal knowledge of something else I am thinking they do champs camp to approve, improve, and or change so they can get the best programs done for that year.

    Also I am not saying she is the best but interesting that she did win the award for choreography going to be given at Champs Camp this year for the best Senior Pairs program at Nationals. So others may not like her but as long as the judges like her and she is winning awards for choreography I would not mind seeing more of it from her. It seems her teams usually seek out choreographers though so whatever works for the team is what is best.



    The "Edi" PSA/USFSA award for "program of the year" is not a choreography award. It is an award that is deemed the best skated program at US Nationals for each discipline. I agree with everything else in your quote, but this is not a "nod" to Delilah's choreography, but rather to the well skated long program of S/K. Congrats to them.
    Last edited by jdonavan; 04-18-2013 at 12:17 AM.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=jdonavan;3903735][QUOTE=figureit;3903648]
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post



    The "Edi" PSA/USFSA award for "program of the year" is not a choreography award. It is an award that is deemed the best skated program at US Nationals for each discipline. I agree with everything else in your quote, but this is not a "nod" to Delilah's choreography, but rather to the well skated long program of S/K. Congrats to them.
    "The award is based on the "total performance" with an eye to costuming, presentation, music selection, choreography, style, and technique. Winners were determined by a committee present at nationals that reviewed all long and short programs at the junior and senior levels for each discipline". Taken from the PSA website explaining what the award is given for.

    It is a nod for Sappenfield and for S/K. Everything I have read mentioned specifically that she and Ibarra (sp) did the choreography. So the nod is there. Also she obviously had a nod for the tech., music selection, presentation, and style. That said SK also had to put it all together and they are very talented. Their emphasis on relating to each other is not something I see in any other American team right now. Being a very new team they had guidance and development I am sure but now that is created their potential is unlimited now. They did not create that program alone so the combination of teacher and student can sometimes create magic and I believe in this case it did for S/K . They took all that and had a super moment at Nationals. It must be so great to skate like you know you can at that moment! I can't wait to see what all her teams do this year and D/C too seems to be exciting year for both teams as it is Olympic year and they both have a chance..Agreed Congrats to S/K not taking anything away from them just giving credit to all as sometimes it does take a village they were beautiful and very much deserving of this special award...and blessings to D/C so excited for this year in US Pairs

  13. #33

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    [QUOTE=figureit;3904097][QUOTE=jdonavan;3903735]
    Quote Originally Posted by figureit View Post

    "The award is based on the "total performance" with an eye to costuming, presentation, music selection, choreography, style, and technique. Winners were determined by a committee present at nationals that reviewed all long and short programs at the junior and senior levels for each discipline". Taken from the PSA website explaining what the award is given for.

    It is a nod for Sappenfield and for S/K. Everything I have read mentioned specifically that she and Ibarra (sp) did the choreography. So the nod is there. Also she obviously had a nod for the tech., music selection, presentation, and style. That said SK also had to put it all together and they are very talented. Their emphasis on relating to each other is not something I see in any other American team right now. Being a very new team they had guidance and development I am sure but now that is created their potential is unlimited now. They did not create that program alone so the combination of teacher and student can sometimes create magic and I believe in this case it did for S/K . They took all that and had a super moment at Nationals. It must be so great to skate like you know you can at that moment! I can't wait to see what all her teams do this year and D/C too seems to be exciting year for both teams as it is Olympic year and they both have a chance..Agreed Congrats to S/K not taking anything away from them just giving credit to all as sometimes it does take a village they were beautiful and very much deserving of this special award...and blessings to D/C so excited for this year in US Pairs
    Wow...take a breath...

    There is an actual "choreographer of the year" PSA award that I thought the previous poster was confusing this with. This is an award that is presented to the skater or skaters and not to the coaches. I am not taking anything away from Delilah or her hard work, who knows, maybe she will win choreographer of the year....

  14. #34
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    Smart move to go ahead and get the surgery and sacrifice the season. I have wondered if Michelle had gone ahead and gotten surgery if her story would have played out differently. Racheal is another one who should go ahead and get it out of the way, but she has said not until her competitive career is over, which I guess is still up in the air.

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    Slightly OT, but is John going to retire after Sochi? If so, what would Caydee do? I mean he was thinking about retirement back in 2011

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    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Slightly OT, but is John going to retire after Sochi? If so, what would Caydee do? I mean he was thinking about retirement back in 2011
    Sure he was.

    Who knows about John, or anyone. I think a lot of skaters make decisions in part based on whether they come out of the Olympic season encouraged or discouraged for what's ahead. In pairs, especially, the teams tend to stick around as longevity can play a big role. Who knows how far D/C will think they can get... I don't think some of their weaknesses are that fixable, but they can improve overall. They're still relatively new when you consider how many years the top pair skaters tend to be on the intl scene.
    Last edited by stjeaskategym; 04-20-2013 at 05:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stjeaskategym View Post
    Sure he was.

    Who knows about John, or anyone. I think a lot of skaters make decisions in part based on whether they come out of the Olympic season encouraged or discouraged for what's ahead. In pairs, especially, the teams tend to stick around as longevity can play a big role. Who knows how far D/C will think they can get... I don't think some of their weaknesses are that fixable, but they can improve overall. They're still relatively new when you consider how many years the top pair skaters tend to be on the intl scene.
    I was just going by his statements in 2011, but I see your point.

    In agreement somewhat over the opinion that some of their weaknesses aren't fixable - IMO, they don't have an 'it' factor which can never be learned and they don't seem to have a lot of natural speed. But, I think little things might go a far way, like Caydee could work on channeling the music through facial expressions, point her toes, better costuming (she looks good in black), toy with different, more flattering positions in lifts. I also think more time together might bring more confidence in the execution of their learned elements, and they may decide to step up the difficulty on the SBS jumps as they have a very high success rate on SBS 3 toes and 2x-2x sequences. Going to a new choreographer w/ decent music will reveal if that helps boost their PCS (where they fall behind the top teams the most)

  18. #38

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    Great news!!!!!

    Seriously, I LOVE everything Julie Marcotte has choreographed, especially her pairs programs for the Canadians (M-T/M's programs blew my mind this past season), best I've ever seen (la verdad)!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyn View Post
    ... Caydee Denney is no Ingrid Bergman, and John Coughlin is no Bogart, that's for sure. She has way too much Perk to capture the luminous, subtle sexiness of Ilsa Lung, and he definitely lacks the brooding, dark, cynical magnetism of Rick Blaine.

    If any Pairs team could pull of skating to Casablanca, IMO, it's V/T

    Quite frankly, I could see a Casablanca program being much more effective and successful in Ice Dance, with Tessa and Scott portraying Ilsa and Rick
    Ha ha, well, Aliona and Robin already accomplished successfully pulling off Casablanca in their break-out 2005 Worlds fp debut!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRioQnGihlo


    Yes, definitely I could also see V/T in pairs and V/M in ice dance taking on the iconic Casablanca roles (more than D/C), and perhaps exploring them in a different way than Aliona and Robin have already done. Especially, I think V/T with the right choreo could rock Casablanca out of the Sochi arena. Definitely, it will be interesting to discover what V/T and S/S and S come up with for the Olympic season. At the least, since V/T are the overwhelming anointed favorites for Sochi gold, I hope they challenge themselves to come up with something that is not just a walk-in-the park easy, aesthetically-pleasing as usual on the surface.

    If D/C do end up skating to Casablanca, it's bound not to be not as interesting or have as much depth, but I'm sure they'll give it their all. As far as movie themes, I think D/C should think more outside-the-box to come up with something challenging, yes, but also more suited to their personas/ on-ice qualities.

    Denney/ Coughlin do not have a very dark, intense, romantic, mysterious vibe going on. But rather than Casablanca, maybe they could better make something noirish like Double Indemnity work for them (Barbara Stanwyck and Fred MacMurray):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4QlUh-axEE Double Indemnity Suite by Miklos Rozsa


    Or, mayhap something screwball comedic like: Bringing Up Baby (Kate Hepburn and Cary Grant):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygskb0Fq6yM I Can't Give You Anything But Love, Baby


    Okay, Caydee and John, why not try on Kate and Cary for size???

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by NadineWhite View Post
    Great news!!!!!

    Seriously, I LOVE everything Julie Marcotte has choreographed, especially her pairs programs for the Canadians (M-T/M's programs blew my mind this past season), best I've ever seen (la verdad)!
    AFAIK, M-T/M's programs this past season were NOT choreographed by Julie Marcotte. OTOH, Marcotte did choreograph Duhamel/ Radford's and Castelli/ Shnapir's wonderful programs. M-T/M's choreographer is listed as Mark Pallay on Wiki.


    BTW, maybe there should be a poll in Trash Can as to whether or not figureit will ever ever learn how to close quote properly.

    And yes I know I've made a back-to-back post boo-boo, but that's certainly not as distracting as the quoting/ re-posting problems figureit causes.

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