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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    All I hope is that this doesn't hurt Ashley going forward. I really have liked his programs for her, however much they were changed!

    Well, there will be a learning curve with someone new and it might turn out she is not happy with the new choreographer either.

  2. #162
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    Mills worked alongside Nicks before Ashely ever went to him. I wonder how he, Nicks, feels about this.

  3. #163
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    Choreographic Copywriting

    Choreographic works have been expressly copyrightable under the Federal Copyright Law in the United States for sixteen years. Although many choreographers have registered their works, only one infringement case has reached the Federal courts. Numerous legal commentators have analyzed the new copyright protections, but many questions remain unanswered for the dance community. This article provides an overview of this legal history in terms understandable to non-lawyers. It also identifies and discusses the many philosophical issues presented by the copyright of choreographic works. These issues include the definition of "choreographic work," the nature of "originality," the distinction between "expression" and "idea," the requirement of "fixation in a tangible medium," infringement, derivative works, and the role of expert testimony.

    http://www.csulb.edu/~jvancamp/copyrigh.html

  4. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Mills worked alongside Nicks before Ashely ever went to him. I wonder how he, Nicks, feels about this.
    Didn`t he choreograph the Somewhere in Time Short Program for Ashley in 2008?
    Cheering for the headcases

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    I'm shocked that skaters pay $10-20,000 for choreography for a four minutes piece. Seems like gouging to me.
    I'm always shocked when people make such ignorant comments.

    So, do you think it takes 4 minutes to choreograph a 4 minute program? First there is the pre-work -- sorting through music and picking the right piece. Then you edit it down to the 4 minutes (or 2.5 or whatever). That is usually an evening minimum. Then you spend a minimum of a few hours on the ice with the skater for at least a few days but often a week and often longer than a few hours. Then there are tweaks throughout the season.

    If you break it down to an hourly rate, it's very similar to what coaches make.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    If you break it down to an hourly rate, it's very similar to what coaches make.
    Also, they are heavily in demand of course all at one time in the season when skaters need new programs, and then have some light periods as the skaters are competing. So they make a lot of money in a few months, but then several months will go by with very little. It all evens out in the end of course.
    In my spare time, I like to interview figure skating legends.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    I think you need to distinguish between your own personal dislike for his work and the fact that he has a career and is being proactive about moving it forward.
    I think you need to know that I am not confused about either point.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    All I hope is that this doesn't hurt Ashley going forward. I really have liked his programs for her, however much they were changed!
    I loved her Vienna show program Who did that?
    Last edited by ginask8s; 04-18-2013 at 06:40 PM. Reason: Wrong program

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by AxelAnnie View Post
    My hairdresser does my hair...and when I leave the salon, it looks gorgeous. What I do with the cut and style after that............well, it never looks like that, but I still tell people who cuts my hair.
    I recently dumped a hairdresser that informed me I wasn't allowed to go out in a pony tail or without blow drying with a round brush because that would "betray" his "art". Interestingly enough, the dude is down to only enough clients to work a half day a week and can no longer pay his chair lease.

  10. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    I recently dumped a hairdresser that informed me I wasn't allowed to go out in a pony tail or without blow drying with a round brush because that would "betray" his "art". Interestingly enough, the dude is down to only enough clients to work a half day a week and can no longer pay his chair lease.
    OT here, but I always figured that it was the cut, not the blow dry, I was paying for. A good cut will look good without a fancy blow dry. You are better off without him.

    As for Ashley, I think this may be good for her. When she moved to Nicks she really needed to learn to control her movements. To stop rushing and finish each move. I think she has learned that lesson and now is at the point where she looks too controlled, almost constrained to the point that it is negatively affecting her performance. A new choreographer who can use her lovely movement, but give her more freedom of movement, I think will help Ashley reach the next level artistically.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    OT here, but I always figured that it was the cut, not the blow dry, I was paying for. A good cut will look good without a fancy blow dry. You are better off without him.
    Continuing the OT: Absolutely, I am better off. I made that decision the moment the words came out of his arrogant mouth. The awkward part was that he is a friend of my parents-in-law. But he does my MiL's hair and had just before that cut it six inches shorter than she wanted because that was his preference. So she ended up dumping him, too. The salon is across the hall from my SiL's business and she owns the building so he pays the rent he can't pay to her. He had returned to doing hair full time after a few years away, but it sounds like he is about to be out of the business again and now we know why. He does great cuts and color, but it may not be what you want. And he moans about his personal life, rants about politics and tells you what you may and may not do with your own hair the whole time. Not worth it.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Mills worked alongside Nicks before Ashely ever went to him. I wonder how he, Nicks, feels about this.
    Wasnt her backup plan to work exclusively with Phillip when/if John retired? Maybe this was a strategy to get John to stay...he cant leave her with no one to work with her in such a crucial year lol. What if she ended up with Frank Carrol? He's very do it my way-ish so it could work. She would end up with Lori Nichol for sure as a choreographer if that happened...

    But no seriously...anyone else think this is Ashley playing her cards right?

  13. #173
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    was mentioned the new one ?
    I hope she will get a fresh style !

  14. #174
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    Ashley just posted this


    Ashley Wagner @AshWagner2010 16m

    To answer everyone's question, I simply wanted to try out a new choreographer and help my skating grow!

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by arakwafan2006 View Post
    Wasnt her backup plan to work exclusively with Phillip when/if John retired? Maybe this was a strategy to get John to stay...he cant leave her with no one to work with her in such a crucial year lol. What if she ended up with Frank Carrol? He's very do it my way-ish so it could work. She would end up with Lori Nichol for sure as a choreographer if that happened...

    But no seriously...anyone else think this is Ashley playing her cards right?
    Uh. What exactly does this mean? She paid Mills off to publicly passive-aggressively diss her so that Nicks would feel he had no choice but to continue to coach her?... Secret back room dealings after Worlds? I mean, it's kind of a great fanfic, but...

  16. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Unless Ashley was trying to sell Mills' work as her own, I don't think she (or any other skater) has to worry about copyright violations.

  17. #177
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    Based on Ashley tweet posted by inthemiddle above, it seems like Mills' ego couldn't handle that Ashley wanted to try out new choreographer? Or was the new choreographer giving Ashley advices on how she could've made her S&D program better, and Mills got a whiff of it? LOL

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I'm always shocked when people make such ignorant comments.

    So, do you think it takes 4 minutes to choreograph a 4 minute program? First there is the pre-work -- sorting through music and picking the right piece. Then you edit it down to the 4 minutes (or 2.5 or whatever). That is usually an evening minimum. Then you spend a minimum of a few hours on the ice with the skater for at least a few days but often a week and often longer than a few hours. Then there are tweaks throughout the season.

    If you break it down to an hourly rate, it's very similar to what coaches make.
    Your inferences are absurd and you are rude. If you think someone needs to be educated about something, you can educate them without resorting to being abusive. I know what procedure they go through, thank you. And I still think, from what I see on the ice, that many are charging too much.

    A lot of the choreography is generic and recycling seems to happen quite often. And,of course, we have the situation, highlighting this entire thread, of the skater not being satisfied and having to or choosing to alter the choreography.

  19. #179

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    I recently dumped a hairdresser that informed me I wasn't allowed to go out in a pony tail or without blow drying with a round brush because that would "betray" his "art". Interestingly enough, the dude is down to only enough clients to work a half day a week and can no longer pay his chair lease.
    Did he issue a press statement?
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    Unless Ashley was trying to sell Mills' work as her own, I don't think she (or any other skater) has to worry about copyright violations.
    I was responding to a previous post about the question of copyrighting choreography to provide evidence that it can be copyrighted in the US.

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