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  1. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Over the years, Chan has made negative, demeaning or critical comments, often without any provocation, about (in no particular order), Evgeni Plushenko, Johnny Weir, Daisuke Takahashi, Brian Joubert, the WTT, Russian skaters, Chinese skaters, Sochi accommodations and food, Denis Ten, Andrei Rogozine/lower-ranked Canadian men, Skate Canada (the event and his federation) and probably some others that I have forgotten. Is it not to be expected that a skater who is often negative about others will become the subject of criticism himself? Especially one so prominent and successful?

    I'm not justifying people who are truly trolling, but not everyone who is critical of Chan/his skating is trolling or being hostile. Yet often criticism that is perfectly reasonable is dismissed by his fans as being motivated by hatred, and some of Chan's more comments are written off because the target of the criticism "deserved it", because Patrick is "so honest" and "tells it like it is", or because "he's young and inexperienced, he'll learn" (Patrick is 22 and in his 6th senior season - as someone noted, that makes him a very slow learner), and due to "bad journalists twisting his comments" (certainly possible, in DiManno's case, but it's not always DiManno). I don't blame him for getting marks that he doesn't (IMO) deserve, or for taking advantage of the system to pack in the points, but I do blame him for sometimes acting like an entitled brat about his career and for the lack of respect he has shown fellow skaters at times.
    ^^YES!^^

  2. #222

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    Here's my take on Patrick Chan voicing his opinions. He is the World Champion and the judges like him. The ISU likes him. He is the skater most qualified to speak to the ISU on behalf of other skaters, and most likely be heard. If the ISU don't listen to Patrick, they will not listen to another skater who might be accused of a "sour grapes" attitude.

    It is a good thing that one skater speaks on behalf of the others, and it doesn't matter who it is. The skaters are the ones who make the competitions successful so they should have some input into the process. If Patrick sees this as his role, and he is very qualified to take on that role, then good for him.

  3. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by JasperBoy View Post
    Here's my take on Patrick Chan voicing his opinions. He is the World Champion and the judges like him. The ISU likes him. He is the skater most qualified to speak to the ISU on behalf of other skaters, and most likely be heard. If the ISU don't listen to Patrick, they will not listen to another skater who might be accused of a "sour grapes" attitude.

    It is a good thing that one skater speaks on behalf of the others, and it doesn't matter who it is. The skaters are the ones who make the competitions successful so they should have some input into the process. If Patrick sees this as his role, and he is very qualified to take on that role, then good for him.
    Why is he the skater most qualified to speak on behalf of others? Does he have any relevant education and off-ice experience? Does he have a good understanding of the various challenges faced by competitive skaters around the world and not just at the elite level? Does he empathize with their concerns and needs?

    This round of comments seem to me to be a lot more focused on what will benefit Patrick Chan than what will benefit most skaters. I've no issue with Chan looking out for his own interests - indeed, he should - but let's not frame it as something more altruistic than it truly is. As for sour grapes... it hasn't escaped my notice than Chan has never finished 1st at the WTT.

    I can think of skaters considerably more qualified than Patrick Chan to speak out on behalf of their fellow skaters in an official/unofficial capacity.

  4. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkaug View Post



    “because it’s not like going from the top of the team to the bottom of the food chain. My situation is different. Who else of equal value is going to replace me?”

    In terms of leadership? Yes, many other Canadian skaters could have done better than you. Actually all of his teammates could have.
    No, I understood the matter was about Canadian male skaters, where Rogozine would have been the one to replace Chan....

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasperBoy View Post
    Here's my take on Patrick Chan voicing his opinions. He is the World Champion and the judges like him. The ISU likes him. He is the skater most qualified to speak to the ISU on behalf of other skaters, and most likely be heard. If the ISU don't listen to Patrick, they will not listen to another skater who might be accused of a "sour grapes" attitude.

    It is a good thing that one skater speaks on behalf of the others, and it doesn't matter who it is. The skaters are the ones who make the competitions successful so they should have some input into the process. If Patrick sees this as his role, and he is very qualified to take on that role, then good for him.
    Chan is also well liked by other skaters such as Takahashi, Lambiel, Max Aaron, Trankov, Kovtun, Fernandez, Brezina. But I don't think a skaters' union is a viable project though and I am not sure at all it was Patrick's idea, I rather suspect the union was suggested to him by the reporter in a leading question. I would have really liked to know what questions the journalist asked him and how she phrased her questions because Chan's visual interviews are pretty much okay. That's probably why they've rarely been material for separate threads.

  6. #226

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    Just to clarify, my comment had nothing to do with a skaters union.

  7. #227
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    PPatrick is entitled to his opinions yes. However in life there are consequences for said opinions.
    In life people who say the truth sometimes dont get a job, labeled something they are not due to words that are misinterpreted the wrong way.
    Than Patrick and those skaters should have no problem not getting the money Patrick thinks he deserves or wants.
    In fact the remarks, johnny,evan, sasha, evegeny has made has hurt them to a point.oubljc remenbers thise remarks that skaters have stated.
    Impacts the skaters, federation , shows through decrease,viewership,loss of seats, tickets overall impression, growth.
    Sports like football, tennis, baseball, golf,basketball had Pr to help glean the verbage and make sure it doesnt look, sound appear to bad.
    Think phelps dui, pot, tigers mistake.
    People do remember act upon accordingly with not buying products, not going to shows, tours etc
    Unsportmanlike behavior, sore winner/sore loser type.
    Peopleand media interpret it in,a way patrick may not have intended.
    It looks bad for sport and all federations
    Adfit it to what else people think is wrong with figure skating.

  8. #228
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    Chan is not the first skater to consider a skater's union; he is not even the only current skater to mention such an idea. I like Patrick, I think he's a decent person with a big issue of foot-in-mouth syndrome. I love his skating. But if the skater's union is his idea and not one suggested by a reporter, well, he's not revolutionary.
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  9. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar
    Chan is also well liked by other skaters such as Takahashi, Lambiel, Max Aaron, Trankov, Kovtun, Fernandez, Brezina. But I don't think a skaters' union is a viable project though and I am not sure at all it was Patrick's idea, I rather suspect the union was suggested to him by the reporter in a leading question. I would have really liked to know what questions the journalist asked him and how she phrased her questions because Chan's visual interviews are pretty much okay. That's probably why they've rarely been material for separate threads.
    That is true VarBar. I noticed that too. Patrick's visual interviews do not come off the way written interviews too, especially written interviews from dubious journalists. I too would like to know what questions were being posed and how was it answered. It is always obvious some people to jump on everything Patrick says and put it in a negative light. I think Patrick should refrain from giving telephone interviews unless the journalist agrees to print the interview word for word or it's journalists who can be trusted for their professionalism.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  10. #230
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    Despite what people think of Patrick, I have to agree with him on this one. Why is there even a World Team Trophy?

    The event occurs a month after Worlds, when everyone has already peaked and are now exhausted. It cuts into the skater's break and/or training period. And not all skaters (even at the elite level) are invited to the WTT - which further emphasizes the unbalanced nature of this event. Skaters who are not invited to the WTT are essentially told that their federation is weak, and they do not have the benefit of performing (and thereby garnering extra reputation points/PCS) in front of the judges.

    As much as I love seeing my favorite skaters perform, WTT is basically a cheesefest with skaters who are not even performing at the maximum capacity. I'd rather see themselves well rested and free from injury, so that they can skate lights out in the next season.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by chronos13 View Post
    Despite what people think of Patrick, I have to agree with him on this one. Why is there even a World Team Trophy?
    $$$

    As you may have noticed, the popularity of figure skating is not exactly at an all-time high worldwide. Many of the ISU's events (the Grand Prix, Junior Grand Prix, Junior Worlds, even 4CC) do NOT attract anywhere near a full arena's worth of audiences, nor do they attract television channels with lucrative contracts. These events are nowhere near turning a profit and some of them probably operate at a loss...but it's undeniable that the skaters themselves benefit from them. Junior skaters get valuable international experience, and senior elite skaters have a chance to fine-tune their programs and get feedback on the GP before the big events later in the season.

    But the WTT, as a fluffy but very popular event, is one of the few lucrative events that the ISU is practically guaranteed to profit from, and the money earned from WTT is likely helping subsidize the less profitable but more prestigious events mentioned above. The JSF and Japanese corporate sponsors basically pay for the WTT's expenses, and gives the ISU a cut of the profit. The ISU's job is to provide some elite skaters for the event, because the corporate sponsors and audiences are more likely to pony up more cash if famous elite skaters show up instead of some random B-listers. Skaters like Chan can complain about being exploited all they want, but they get paid some of the most generous prize money available in the figure skating world today (which even someone like Chan, who earned 20k for a completely rubbish performance at the WTT, could benefit from as he's complained about not earning enough in the past) and the money earned by an event like the WTT helps pay for other ISU events that the skaters and fans don't seem to complain about and actually benefit from.

    As for the team aspect of WTT, I think the ISU had originally envisioned the WTT as a sort of test/pilot project for a team event at the Olympics.

  12. #232

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    Quote Originally Posted by chronos13 View Post
    The event occurs a month after Worlds, when everyone has already peaked and are now exhausted. It cuts into the skater's break and/or training period. And not all skaters (even at the elite level) are invited to the WTT - which further emphasizes the unbalanced nature of this event. Skaters who are not invited to the WTT are essentially told that their federation is weak, and they do not have the benefit of performing (and thereby garnering extra reputation points/PCS) in front of the judges.

    As much as I love seeing my favorite skaters perform, WTT is basically a cheesefest with skaters who are not even performing at the maximum capacity. I'd rather see themselves well rested and free from injury, so that they can skate lights out in the next season.
    Some federations have fewer good skaters than others, and a team competition is just a reflection of that. It is not a judgment on the merits of specific skaters.

    The WTT is a burden to some and an opportunity for others. For some skaters, it is an opportunity to finish the season on a high note after a disappointing Worlds (Suzuki) or after a great Worlds (Lysacek), get a good result that might help in the future (Chock and Bates) or make a senior debut in a low-pressure situation with lots of teammate support (Amodio, Gold). Why is that a bad thing? And who says the skaters are not skating at maximum capacity? In recent years, Takahashi and Suzuki have given fantastic performances at the WTT; Kostner's SP last year was wonderful (a new PB, I believe, after 5 years), and there have been some other good performances.

    2011 Worlds were held even later than the WTT, and I don't recall that preventing anyone from skating well the next season. Skaters are far more likely to exhaust themselves by skating in tours and multiple shows than by going to Japan for a few days (for which they are well-compensated).

    That said, I don't think there should be penalties for skaters who want to skip the WTT, other than not being able to skate shows around the time of the event. I'd rather see skaters in the event who want to be there than the likes of Chan and Moir, who are clearly not interested.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    The WTT is a burden to some and an opportunity for others. For some skaters, it is an opportunity to finish the season on a high note after a disappointing Worlds (Suzuki) or after a great Worlds (Lysacek), get a good result that might help in the future (Chock and Bates) or make a senior debut in a low-pressure situation with lots of teammate support (Amodio, Gold). Why is that a bad thing?

    So Chan's saying “Nobody’s really interested in it." in the article is not true at all.

  14. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by chronos13 View Post
    As much as I love seeing my favorite skaters perform, WTT is basically a cheesefest with skaters who are not even performing at the maximum capacity. I'd rather see themselves well rested and free from injury, so that they can skate lights out in the next season.
    This

  15. #235
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    Last edited by karlon; 04-25-2013 at 11:07 AM.

  16. #236

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    I'm not quite understanding what he's saying.

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