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  1. #1

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    Choreographer's database?

    I was wondering if there is a place to see all the work of a particular choreographer. If I want to see or to reference all works of Nichol, Wilson, Dickson, Camerlengo, Tarasova etc, is there a place to go? If not, what is the most efficient way to get that information?
    Last edited by dinakt; 04-09-2013 at 01:07 AM.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  2. #2
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    That would be a great idea. For instance, I still dont know which program Lori N. choreographed for Tatiana/Max (pairs)

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    For starters, it would be nice if they simply announced the choreographer at the same time as they announce the skater and the music.

    But choreography in skating seems to be a lot more fluid than it is in dance, at least ballet.

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    Actually I'm working on it, the coding part is practically done, but inserting the information is the biggest challenge!

  5. #5

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    The choreographers for the current year are part each skater or teams bio on the ISU website, and for US skaters and some others, on the icenetwork website. I believe ice-dance.com also lists choreographers as part of bios.

    The trouble is that bios are not particularly well-maintained; no one says to a skater, "You cannot compete in this ISU event unless you have a current biography on the ISU database, with every item filled out." And that should be a rule.

    It would save everyone a lot of annoyance, particularly journalists and TV folk.

    There would still be a need for joeperryfan's database to keep track of previous years, but at least the data would be available for a significant length of time, so that such a database could be updated.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeperryfan View Post
    Actually I'm working on it, the coding part is practically done, but inserting the information is the biggest challenge!
    Sounds like an ambitious project! Good luck with it!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    The choreographers for the current year are part each skater or teams bio on the ISU website, and for US skaters and some others, on the icenetwork website. I believe ice-dance.com also lists choreographers as part of bios.

    The trouble is that bios are not particularly well-maintained; no one says to a skater, "You cannot compete in this ISU event unless you have a current biography on the ISU database, with every item filled out." And that should be a rule.

    It would save everyone a lot of annoyance, particularly journalists and TV folk.

    There would still be a need for joeperryfan's database to keep track of previous years, but at least the data would be available for a significant length of time, so that such a database could be updated.
    ITA, but I'm not sure how the update process really works, maybe the ISU lacks manpower to keep it updated properly, I've noticed that at the beginning of the season lots of profiles get updated after certain events, usually JGP, etc, I know the software used to run the competitions can keep track of skaters, if it connects to the ISU database maybe that's how it's done and then it depends on the organizing committees to make sure the information is updated and sent.

    Regardless, my plan is to get the skaters involved in updating the info on my site, the kids are so in touch with the internet these days that it will be a lot easier than a few years ago, I'll start with the few I know and then hope it spreads.


    Quote Originally Posted by lulu View Post
    Sounds like an ambitious project! Good luck with it!
    Thanks!

  8. #8

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    Good luck with that joeperryfan. The kids & their coaches are supposed to update their own bios for ISU...and they don't do it.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeperryfan View Post
    Actually I'm working on it, the coding part is practically done, but inserting the information is the biggest challenge!
    Unless you choose to keep it secret, please tell more!!! How do you approach it?
    I imagine the choreographers themselves keep track of their work, so the best strategy might be to approach them.
    Choreo IS fluid- a choreographer choreographs, a coach changes it, a skater omits smth- who at the end stands behind the final product? As skating is not considered primarily an art, it is understandable that the database might be fluid and incomplete... Still, as I go to various sources to see a body of work of a composer or performer, whichever genre, it would be enlightening to see a body of work of Nichol, Dickson etc.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  10. #10
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    The ISU bios list choreographers, but it isn't always clear which choreographers are for which program. The two choreographers can have worked together, or if there are more than two, it's isn't clear which two worked together and which one worked alone.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    Good luck with that joeperryfan. The kids & their coaches are supposed to update their own bios for ISU...and they don't do it.
    Oh, I don't expect them to update anything with their own hands, I just meant it's easier to chase them to ask for the info. How are they supposed to keep their ISU bios updated? Is there an interface available online or do they have to go to someone in order to do it? Just curious to see where's the bottleneck. Anyway, i hope at some point it becomes a vanity thing, you know, to have a nice and complete profile on the site.

    Quote Originally Posted by dinakt View Post
    Unless you choose to keep it secret, please tell more!!! How do you approach it?
    I imagine the choreographers themselves keep track of their work, so the best strategy might be to approach them.
    Choreo IS fluid- a choreographer choreographs, a coach changes it, a skater omits smth- who at the end stands behind the final product? As skating is not considered primarily an art, it is understandable that the database might be fluid and incomplete... Still, as I go to various sources to see a body of work of a composer or performer, whichever genre, it would be enlightening to see a body of work of Nichol, Dickson etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    The ISU bios list choreographers, but it isn't always clear which choreographers are for which program. The two choreographers can have worked together, or if there are more than two, it's isn't clear which two worked together and which one worked alone.
    I expect to have the coding part all done this week.

    I have thought about those issues, there are some notoriously tough cases such as "The Feeling begins", or was it "Requiem"?, by Grishuk and Platov where Grishuk, Tarasova and Dubova(or was it Linichuk?) all say different things about the choreography... I guess we'll need Platov to set the record straight. Or the case of Mishin's students who never skate to the program they have in the beginning of the season for a long time.
    I'll stick with what's official, but if a choreographer wants his/her name removed from one of the routines then I'll remove it, or maybe I can add different statuses of cooperation, such as "consulting" for smaller works, "
    first draft" for those programs that ended up being something completely different than what was intended, etc...

  12. #12

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    I don't know where the bottleneck is, but I can tell you that some federations are vastly worse than others; Italy for example does a bad job.

  13. #13

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    ^^Italy, no kidding? They're usually so organized...

    I guess it's just another thing that understaffed Federations neglect... Not long ago Victoria Muniz wasn't sent to 4CC, if I'm not mistaken, because her fed hadn't filed the paperwork... compared to that the ISU bios are nothing. But let's hope that given the opportunity at least the skaters and coaches decide to cooperate.

  14. #14
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    That sounds like a great project, joeperryfan! Is it going to be a wiki style site where anyone can post? Perhaps, for cases like G&P's Feeling Begins, there can be links to source articles that discuss the controversy.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    That sounds like a great project, joeperryfan! Is it going to be a wiki style site where anyone can post? Perhaps, for cases like G&P's Feeling Begins, there can be links to source articles that discuss the controversy.
    It's not a wiki, but I'm planning to have a form where visitors can notify me if they find any mistakes in the data and another to suggest new routines. It's not much more complicated than a wiki, the main difference is that I'll have to approve the new data before it goes live, this helps keep the site free from duplicates and at the same time give some form of guarantee that the data is being revised and that the site is edited.

    Good suggestion, I'll make a field for references that can keep that kind of information.

    There are still a few things that need work, I don't have a lot of data inserted yet, but here's a preview for you:

    Example of a choreographer page: Ingo Steuer
    Here the list on the factsheet will only show the six most recent routines on file, the full list is under the side tab "Routines Choreographed".

    Example of a skater page: Brian Joubert
    By clicking on the routine you'll see more details about it.

    Example routine page: Exogenesis and another one with pics Justice. Notice that below you have a check list of the events where the routine was performed and the photos and videos available for them, by clicking you can see them.

    Then inside the routine page, if you click on the Title of the track used you'll get this: Exogenesis part 3 and here you can see amongst others all the routines that have used that track.

    I'm aware that there are several bugs, nevertheless if you find anything malfunctioning please let me know! I also welcome your suggestions.

    Thanks!

  16. #16
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    Awesome work! Thanks for doing it!
    In my spare time, I like to interview figure skating legends.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by manleywoman View Post
    Awesome work! Thanks for doing it!
    Thanks!

  18. #18
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    Many moons ago, when I was competing, if we qualified from a Canadian sectionals to a Divisionals competition, we were required to fill in paperwork listing our choreographers for each program. I'm assuming it's even easier to do now for competitors.

    Though I know it's not reliable, wikipedia lists the choreographers for the programs of many skaters.

  19. #19

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    Is anyone here good at identifying Rolling Stones songs - MuZak edition?

    So far I have nine programs that use "Paint it Black"! I need help with these two:

    1) Wötzel & Steuer 1996 FS
    First cut is "Time is on my side", one of my favorite songs by RS so I was when I heard it. I can't identify the other two cuts, it sounds familiar but I'm on a stupid day I'm afraid...

    2) Alban Préaubert 2010
    The cut between "Angie" and "Start me up". Again I know this song but the mental hard drive isn't doing its job.

    Thanks!

  20. #20
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    W&S - Lady Jane and It's All Over Now
    Alban - Mannish Boy

    My talent is googling, not song IDing though (googling Alban's name and the titles you did know did the trick).

    I have another suggestion... perhaps a little section where someone could write the story of the program, for example U&Z's statues or K&P's wind and sand (Lawrence of Arabia)... I find these things get lost over the years since they're not part of the music's title. Unless they're watching a video where the commentary mentions it people won't know the meaning.

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