Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 133
  1. #41
    4 More Years
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    ubering Terry Gannon
    Age
    7
    Posts
    4,546
    vCash
    19008
    Rep Power
    4325
    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Caseyedwards is right. I'm really surprised, don't you know this? "European FS analysts said the decision to award Evan the gold medal over Evgeni was debatable." Because Evan wasn't flawless. Evan did mistakes-which are not visible to non-specialists. He had a prerotated 3A and he received only a judges warning for a wrong-edged takeoff on his triple flip, not a 2- or 3-point deduction. But the European experts saw it, of course, like Lu Chen and Shen-Zhao's coach etc.

    In many European country Plush was the real winner.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadruple_jump_controversy very- very interesting
    what a load of crap. Get over it. Evan won legitimately and fairly.

  2. #42
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,943
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by skatemomaz View Post
    what a load of crap. Get over it. Evan won legitimately and fairly.
    Yes, he won, no doupt, and everybody moved on. But was a big controversy, that is also unquestionable. I just wanted to show, that were other opinions, not only the American opinion.

  3. #43

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    461
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    733
    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Yes, he won, no doupt, and everybody moved on. But was a big controversy, that is also unquestionable. I just wanted to show, that were other opinions, not only the American opinion.
    Yes, we know that there are other opinions. If I recall correctly, Plushenko was proclaimed the winner of the platinum medal. ;-)

  4. #44
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    If I recall correctly, Plushenko was proclaimed the winner of the platinum medal. ;-)
    I just don't get this. Why is Plushenko's platinum medal always a source for laughing at him?! Jealous much that he has such devoted fans?!

  5. #45

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    13,538
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    42165
    Quote Originally Posted by KimGOAT View Post
    Well for a skater he is middle aged. Skaters amateur career is supposed to be from 15 to 25, and he is 21 or 22 isnt he.
    Who are you to make these pronouncements?

    I wish all of the "armchair experts" would attempt to get on the ice and produce "OGM-winning" content, before offering their critiques.

  6. #46
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Age
    28
    Posts
    2,477
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    If people are going to argue that Plushenko deserved the win, I wish they'd stop harping about how the quad was the single thing that should have given him the gold (and that Lysacek did 'all triples'). I do agree that it was extremely close, but I still think Lysacek had the nod.

    As judge Patrick Ibens (who was on the mens SP panel in Vancouver) told me in an interview, if it was all just about a quadruple toe loop, then Adrian Schultheiss should have been the one filing all the complaints that night as he had the best one and didn't even make the top ten.

    Another thing-- people always resort to Lysacek's triple Axels having a cheated (almost Salchow) entrance-- and it always drove me insane that he got full credit. I do think that he cleaned up the technique slightly before Vancouver.

    However, Plushenko fans: watch Evgeny's Lutz, for example, in slo-mo. You're going to see even more of a pre-rotation.

  7. #47
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,943
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler View Post
    If people are going to argue that Plushenko deserved the win, I wish they'd stop harping about how the quad was the single thing that should have given him the gold (and that Lysacek did 'all triples'). I do agree that it was extremely close, but I still think Lysacek had the nod.

    As judge Patrick Ibens (who was on the mens SP panel in Vancouver) told me in an interview, if it was all just about a quadruple toe loop, then Adrian Schultheiss should have been the one filing all the complaints that night as he had the best one and didn't even make the top ten.

    Another thing-- people always resort to Lysacek's triple Axels having a cheated (almost Salchow) entrance-- and it always drove me insane that he got full credit. I do think that he cleaned up the technique slightly before Vancouver.

    However, Plushenko fans: watch Evgeny's Lutz, for example, in slo-mo. You're going to see even more of a pre-rotation.
    Ok, Tony. But you can't deny he had " army of defenders", who said he was robbed. And they were not only fans, they were experts. Right? Of course, you know.

  8. #48
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I'm tired of getting into this argument about 2010 Olympics, but I have to say that I believe Plushenko was low balled in SP which has given Lysacek the edge for his unfortunate Olympic win.

  9. #49

    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Gwyneth Paltrow Fan Club headquarters
    Posts
    17,320
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    32204
    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Yes, he won, no doupt, and everybody moved on. But was a big controversy, that is also unquestionable. I just wanted to show, that were other opinions, not only the American opinion.
    It wasn't only Americans who were OK with Lysacek's win. And IMHO the "big controversy" was not that big, except in the minds of Plushenko defenders.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  10. #50
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Quadland
    Posts
    6,309
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    There's a problem saying lysacek did all triples? He did do all triples. The hardest thing he did was "3a"-2t. That was not acceptable at the previous three Olympics as something deserving of a win! Plush did do quad triples in both the sp and lp and they meant nothing in winning. Unlike the past three Olympics and 10 worlds from 1997 to 2007. Boitano did a much better all triple program in 1988 with two triple axels being the hardest jumps. Maybe Urmanov too from 1994. The whole quad era was irrelevent. All of a sudden it was 1988 again! 1988 standards of jumps? No that's ridiculous to accept. Now things are back to normal.

    If schultheiss hadn't Doubled his second 3a attempt he would have made the top 10. The standard isn't Best quads or most quads the standard is who does everything. It's not a one jump contest or figure jumping. Plushenko did everything and he deserved to win and not something from 1988.

  11. #51
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    It wasn't only Americans who were OK with Lysacek's win. And IMHO the "big controversy" was not that big, except in the minds of Plushenko defenders.
    It was BIG. Big enough to prompt ISU to raise quad value the next season which has effectively ended figure skating quadless era.

    Lysacek is associated his name with quadless winner. If that's what he wants to come back to change, welcome him! But don't just enjoy talking about the comeback. It's really tiring to hear it over and over and over.
    Last edited by Eyre; 04-09-2013 at 06:22 PM.

  12. #52
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,943
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    It wasn't only Americans who were OK with Lysacek's win. And IMHO the "big controversy" was not that big, except in the minds of Plushenko defenders.
    NO, that isn't true. Your media was very smart, you didn't know the different opinions. But as I said everybody moved on.

  13. #53

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    461
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    733
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post

    I just don't get this. Why is Plushenko's platinum medal always a source for laughing at him?! Jealous much that he has such devoted fans?!
    It is not 'a source of laughing at him.' I just means that Plushenko has a group of very devoted fans that did not agree with the Olympic results. Nothing more, nothing less.

  14. #54
    aspiring tri-national
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    in flight
    Posts
    20,559
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    39875
    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    It's not a one jump contest or figure jumping. Plushenko did everything and he deserved to win and not something from 1988.
    It is only you and a few other monomaniacs who thought Plushenko "did everything." His choreo and transitions have always been non-existent or second rate and that was true in Vancouver as well. I am not an Evan fan. I thought he won a pretty lackluster competition.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  15. #55
    I <3 Kozuka
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vancouver/Seattle
    Posts
    19,213
    vCash
    730
    Rep Power
    44756
    Quote Originally Posted by B.Cooper View Post
    So, to bring up the topic again about "come back skaters".....

    "If the rules don't change. This year's definition of a "Come-Back
    Skater/Couple" is "Skaters/Couples who were previously seeded (placed 1 to 6
    within the past 10 years at an ISU World Figure Skating Championship) and
    subsequently did not participate in one or more competitive seasons will be
    given priority consideration to re-enter the Grand Prix for selection of up to 2
    assignments" (if they commit in writing, etc. It also says they "would be
    considered for selection as a Host Country Choice," but while there might be
    pressure for USFS to use one spot at Skate America for Lysacek, which they
    probably would anyway, last year Weir was assigned to Rostelecom Cup and Trophee
    Bompard, and Ando was assigned to Cup of China and Trophee Bompard. "

    Is this a correct/accurate statement? ....Ugh.....Once I found the above quote, I lost which thread it came from ;-)
    Does this apply to Evan? Any other skaters that it might apply to? Weir?
    (If the rules don't change) It applies to Lysacek, because he never used the comeback skater option, which is a one-time option. The last time he was assigned to two spots, it was because he was guaranteed one from still being Top 24 in World Standing and another he was another Federation's optional choice. Since then, he only has been eligible for a host pick, unless he signs the paperwork to exercise the option.

    Weir used the option this past season, and he's no longer eligible for it. The only thing he'd qualify for next season is a host pick, and good luck with that.

    It applies to every skater who meets the criteria:
    Was a seeded skater in the last ten years and then took off one or seasons since, agrees to the terms, and hasn't used the option before.

    There's also the argument that ths even applies to skaters like Suguri (2006 silver medal), who met the criteria, but competed at Worlds after they did and placed lower than 6th, and then took more than one season off, however involuntary. The Federation has to be willing to submit the skater's name for GP consideration, though. You can see from the Worlds results list tat there are a number of skaters/teams from the past ten years who are eligible to take advantage of this, if they have federation support.

    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post

    Quads had points but no value in doing. They were a big waste of time! Even Kevin van Der perren didn't do them. Like Oda and weir and all the newcomers that do them now like brezina and amodio.
    They were certainly worth doing if they were rotated, but since the underrotation penalty -- downgrade for 25+% rotation -- was so heinous, it was only worth the effort from men like Plushenko and Joubert, who could rotate them, and the lower-ranked skaters who were attempting them despite the point value and underrotation penalty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    It was BIG. Big enough to prompt ISU to raise quad value the next season which has effectively ended figure skating quadless era.
    Raising the points value didn't raise the number of quad attempts in championships by very much. The big jump came when the underrotation rules were changed to reduce the base value to 70% of the quad value, or as much or greater than the base value of the hardest triples, for smaller underrotations instead of downgrading the jumps. Even this may not have been causal, as more and more skaters were coming up through the ranks having maximized difficulty in other elements and were looking for ways to distinguish themselves and find sources of incremental points.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 04-09-2013 at 06:56 PM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  16. #56
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Raising the points value didn't raise the number of quad attempts in championships by very much.
    It has ended the dreadful quadless era since the beginning of the following season by Patrick Chan. All because of this quad controversy at 2010 Olympics. That was a big deal.
    Last edited by Eyre; 04-10-2013 at 02:11 AM.

  17. #57
    I <3 Kozuka
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vancouver/Seattle
    Posts
    19,213
    vCash
    730
    Rep Power
    44756
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    It has ended the dreadful quadless era since the beginning of the following season by Patrick Chan. All because of this quad contraversy at 2010 Olympics. That was a big deal.
    A quadless Olympic champion may have been the reason the ISU changed the point values, which wasn't the first time they were changed, but it didn't increase the number of quads by much. I ran the numbers on quad attempts from the protocols at championships for the top 10 or 12 skaters and posted them to FSU, and the numbers don't bear out your claim.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  18. #58

    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Skating in a Canadian beautiful way
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,760
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    14413
    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    But as I said everybody moved on.
    That doesn't appear to be the case....

  19. #59
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    A quadless Olympic champion may have been the reason the ISU changed the point values, which wasn't the first time they were changed, but it didn't increase the number of quads by much. I ran the numbers on quad attempts from the protocols at championships for the top 10 or 12 skaters and posted them to FSU, and the numbers don't bear out your claim.
    "may have been"?! It was most definitely having been. No need to de-emphasize the huge impact from 2010 Olympic quadless contraversy. That was as clear as black and white. Too bad that Lysacek has been firmly associated with quadless champion title whether you like it or not. By the way, a season doesn't contain only a championship competiton, does it?! So your research has had its limit, and didn't tell the whole picture of the next season.

  20. #60
    I <3 Kozuka
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vancouver/Seattle
    Posts
    19,213
    vCash
    730
    Rep Power
    44756
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    "may have been"?! It was most definitely having been. No need to de-emphasize the huge impact from 2010 Olympic quadless contraversy. That was as clear as black and white. Too bad that Lysacek has been firmly associated with quadless champion title whether you like it or not. By the way, a season doesn't contain only a championship competiton, does it?! So your research has had its limit, and didn't tell the whole picture of the next season.
    My research showed that changing the rules after Vancouver didn't cause the number of quad attempts to rise by much, while after the underrotation rules were changed (later), attempts jumped. Since you insist on labeling Lysacek as a "quadless" Olympic champion, why would anything but what happens in the three major championships matter to you? That's where skaters put themselves on the line, and they're late enough in the season to show to what level the skater is building (in general).

    In Vancouver, I was rooting for Kozuka, Takahashi, and Chan, and I appreciated Lambiel's choreography and footwork. I've never been a Lysacek fan, and if Plushenko hadn't been a shadow of himself speed and power-wise compared to the skater I saw regularly (live) until 2005, he would have walked away with the title, despite the empty program, one directional skating, and mediocre ice coverage aside from big jump set ups, but I have to hand it to Lysacek: he gave it 110% from the beginning to the end of the program, and he skated with authority. As it was, Plushenko's comeback attempt was epic.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 12345 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •