View Poll Results: Where would clean Kwan have placed at the 2010 Olympics

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  • gold

    18 13.04%
  • silver

    17 12.32%
  • bronze

    17 12.32%
  • no medal

    86 62.32%
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    They make about as much sense as you transplanting Yuna back to 1998 when she was 7 years old under a totally different judging and skating system with different standards yet somehow with the same skillset and program layout as a 19 year old 2010 Yuna under IJS.
    ITA! You took the words out of my mouth.


    Quote Originally Posted by sap5 View Post
    Kwan would win gold in 3022 and 4022. She doesn't even have to be alive to win gold!
    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    She's won gold in previous lives.
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Michelle would never have won gold, she'd have lost to the 97 year old Sonja Henie, skating clean.
    Nope, you're all missing the lessons of Michelle Kwan's career. It’s about the journey, not the destination. Even despite all the gold medals MK won and the Olympic gold medals she notoriously didn't win, she taught us what making the effort means, and what never giving up means (that is everyone who's been paying attention). Kween is a legend in her own time. She transcends the sport and she transcends Olympic gold.

    When you're golden, winning Olympic gold is beside the point.


    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    I can't tell you how many times I had to tell people Kwan didn't with the OGM and they just look at me like I'm an idiot I think the average person who doesn't follow the sport very often does think she won.
    Aha! Maybe that's because post-Nagano, MK turned silver into gold. Strangely perhaps the "average person" who knows nothing about fs may in certain ways understand more about Kween's skating career than all those who seem to have figure skating and FSU polls clogging their brains.


    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    Michelle could not have beat Yuna. Yuna has too many 3-3's, consistent jumps, and too much height on her jumps to lose to anyone. Michelle seemed to flounder under COP as well, during her last few international competitions. I don't think Michelle could have beat even Joannie. She probably would have been 4th-6th in 2010.
    Apparently, hindsight is foreknowledge, preference is obvious, past imperfectly dense, present nonexistent, and future tense.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 04-05-2013 at 11:03 PM.

  2. #42
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    Madge Syers was my homegirl.

  3. #43
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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by numbers123 View Post
    I don't think that Kwan would have been in medal contention. As much as some fans wanted her to have an OGM, I believe that she was much better served by not winning one. She had a long career, will be remembered as one of the greatest female skaters. If she had won the OGM in place of Tara, I imagine she would have retired.
    You must have teflon. When I suggested that a few months ago, I was nearly tarred-and-feathered by outraged, Junior Mint-munching, full-time Defenders of the MK Legacy!
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  5. #45
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    ^^ Well, IMHO, Cheylana, numbers imagines errantly, and your imagination knows no bounds.

    In fact, plenty of persons have gone unscathed, untarred and unfeathered after making that faulty "suggestion."

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I think she would have definitely beat Rochette if she was clean, if not Asada as well. I voted silver at first but I'm starting to think maybe she wouldn't have beat Asada.. not sure about that one. I know Asada's 3A was underrotated though, IIRC? I'm getting sleepy so I'm having trouble even typing this coherently lol.
    IIRC Asada received full credit for both 3A.

  7. #47
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    These are how great Kwan would have done at all her Olympics skating cleanly:

    1994- would have taken 6th place over Szewcenko who she beat at World Juniors.
    1998- would have taken 2nd place behind Lipinski since that is what she got skating cleanly.
    2002- would have taken silver behind Slutskaya since the ordinals flip would put Slutskaya over Hughes, and Kwan would have snuggled between them.
    2006- would have taken 5th place behind Suguri, or maybe even 4th just above her, either way about tied in points. I dont think given her injury and being past her prime she would have skated clean and more likely made mistakes and been 9th or 10th, but that is how she would place behind clean.
    2010- would have placed about 8th just above Suzuki. I dont think almost 30 year Kwan after years of injuries and forced into bad system for her beautiful skating would be clean anyway, so more likely place 15th with lots of mistakes, but that is projectd placement by me if clean.

  8. #48
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    Watching a performance of thread necromancy with the associated indecipherable incantations is an awe-inspiring thing.

    I have goosebumps right now.

  9. #49
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    I don't think Michelle would have even made the 2010 Olympic team, especially with just 2 spots on the line. Flatt and Nagasu would have still prevailed with Wagner the alternate and Cohen with her strong SP holding her up probably still placing over Michelle in 4th. Or not. Sasha's LP was such a disaster that Michelle might have dug deep and pulled up to at least 4th.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Nope, you're all missing the lessons of Michelle Kwan's career. It’s about the journey, not the destination. Even despite all the gold medals MK won and the Olympic gold medals she notoriously didn't win, she taught us what making the effort means, and what never giving up means (that is everyone who's been paying attention). Kween is a legend in her own time. She transcends the sport and she transcends Olympic gold.

    When you're golden, winning Olympic gold is beside the point.
    Aftershocks, what a perfect summation of Michelle's status vis-a-vis the Olympic gold medal, i.e., that she transcends both it and skating. Incidentally, this is exactly why so many people believe that Michelle DID win Olympic gold.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Nope, you're all missing the lessons of Michelle Kwan's career. It’s about the journey, not the destination. Even despite all the gold medals MK won and the Olympic gold medals she notoriously didn't win, she taught us what making the effort means, and what never giving up means (that is everyone who's been paying attention). Kween is a legend in her own time. She transcends the sport and she transcends Olympic gold.

    When you're golden, winning Olympic gold is beside the point.
    Aftershocks, what a perfect summation of Michelle's status vis-a-vis the Olympic gold medal, i.e., that she transcends both it and skating. Incidentally, this is exactly why so many people believe that Michelle DID win Olympic gold. And why, to me, Michelle has relegated the status of the Olympic gold medal to a mere shiny bauble.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    I don't think Michelle would have even made the 2010 Olympic team, especially with just 2 spots on the line. Flatt and Nagasu would have still prevailed with Wagner the alternate and Cohen with her strong SP holding her up probably still placing over Michelle in 4th. Or not. Sasha's LP was such a disaster that Michelle might have dug deep and pulled up to at least 4th.
    25 year old Kwan would have won gold in 2006 with her usual clean short and 6 triple long. A clean short would leave her in contention with the top 3 and a clean 6 triple long (lutz, lutz, flip, flip, sal, toe) would be sufficient to beat Arakawa who only had 5 triples (lutz, lutz, flip, sal, sal).

    29 year old Kwan would have at least won bronze in 2010 with her usual clean short and 6 triple long. Rochette only did a 3/2 in the short and made a couple of mistakes in the long. Politics aside I see a clean Kwan being competitive with her. If the program was right, she might even have enough cred to beat Asada who also made 2 mistakes and was uninspiring with her Vampire program. There was no way she would beat Kim though.

    But I am assuming that she would be healthy and can do her usual elements and also max out COP points. I remember reading reports that she was doing all these elements that Tarasova had her do in 2006 including a 2axel directly into a back catch foot spin. If injury-free, I can she could definitely manage COP elements and programs. (plus it wasn't like Arakawa or Slutskaya had masterpieces)

  13. #53
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    Nobody will ever know if Kwan was capable of the higher level non jump elements or not. One certainly cant trust the USFSA who crowed she looked great at the Tests, when we see how far from reality that was when she was at the Games a short time later and still too injured to even realistically skate. The same USFSA who allowed Flatt and Czisny to compete at Worlds injured and embarass the then sagging U.S womens program to boot. Unless they really did know nothing, but that would speak poorly to them in itself. I would have to hear someone alot more credible than them saying she was doing atleast all level 3 elements to know for sure. I do agree she was talented enough to have found a way around them, even if they didnt suit her and come as easily as some others, but sadly we will never know for sure.

    This thread is stupid anyway as she never had any intention to compete in 2010, and a comeback was never realistic at age 29, after some serious injuries, and years off from competition. Forced to project anything though I would say I am pretty sure Rochette competing so courageously after her mother dieing, being reigning World silver medalist on home ice, and skating somewhat credibly, would never have been bumped off the podium or placed below in favor of any skater who wasnt doing hard 3/3s and/or a 3 axel though, which even a 2000 10 years younger vintage Kwan transported through a time machine wouldnt have likely been doing, let alone a 30 year old retired one with a butchered hip. Especialy seeing the IMO very generous marks Rochette received, especialy for her LP performance.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 06-25-2013 at 05:22 AM.

  14. #54
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    You know it's a bad poll when even judgejudy sounds reasonable.
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  15. #55
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    Skating cleanly given what her skill set would realistic wise be at age 30 under a code she doesnt suit for. Probably 7th or 8th, right around Flatt is, only because of Flatt's two stupid downgrades that cost her 4th place over Nagasu. That is in the unrealistic event she skated cleanly which at 30 after years away wouldnt happen, and I agree with the person who said she wouldnt even make the team to begin with. Cohen didnt come close to making the team, and she is alot younger, had been more actively involved in skating, and is a better COP skater than Kwan.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    You missed the point entirely. Your wild speculation of how Yuna would've done in 1998 involves a skillset and program layout that she developed in a totally different era. It makes no sense. It's a sport, it's supposed to progress. It's like ZOMG Yuna would've beaten Sonia Henie at all 3 of her Olympics since she did a 3-3 and Sonia didn't zomg lolz!!!
    Well said.

  17. #57
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    Cecelia Colledge in her physical prime age transported to another time, and not dealing with the heavy politics of the tail end of the Henie reign, could have beaten anyone. Madge Syers as well. She was even the best mens skater in the World in her prime.

  18. #58

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    The reason why this hypothetical Michelle Kwan wouldn't stand a chance in 2010 is because she simply was "born too soon and started too late!" That's why!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...FPG3PDBs#t=46s

  19. #59
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    If the Multiverse Theory is correct -- that is, that there is an infinite number of parallel universes encompassing all possible outcomes of all events -- then there has to be any number of universes in which Michelle won Olympic gold in 2010; in 2006; in 2002; in 1998; and in all four of those Olympiads. There must also be at least one universe in which Michelle and Sonja Henie went head-to-head in the 1940 Winter Olympics (no World War II in that universe leading to Olympic Games cancellations).

    Just my luck to be stuck in the sucky, boring universe in which none of the aforementioned happened.

  20. #60

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    There seems to be many 'crystal ball' and 'history' polls lately!
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