View Poll Results: Would Evan have won 2010 Olympics even had everyone skated clean

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  • yes, especialy with a quad

    11 9.02%
  • yes, but not without a quad

    7 5.74%
  • no

    104 85.25%
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  1. #1
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    Would Evan have won 2010 Olympics even had everyone skated cleanly

    I think Evan would have won the last Olympics even if everyone had skated cleanly. Who agrees with me. At the very least had he done a quad in both programs his short would be 100 points and his long 180 points and made him unbeatable even by all skating cleanly, but I think even his performances and scores were unbeatable for the others as they were.

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    I think he would not have even made the podium.

    There was so much talent in that event, with Plushenko, Takahashi, Oda, Lambiel, Chan, Weir, Kozuka, Joubert and more. Had everyone skated cleanly, I think Evan may have ended up around 6th or 7th. The problem in 2010 was that pretty much everyone else blew it.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

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    I think the PCS that Lambiel and Takahashi received (especially in the LP) may indicate otherwise. I know Lambiel was at a disadvantage with having a flimsy 3Axel, but by "clean" are we going by the idea that he would have landed one in both the SP and LP?

    Lysaceck may have been the reigning World Champion and gotten a bit of a PCS boost, but I think that year, even Abbott may have overtaken him if he skated well.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    I think he would not have even made the podium.

    There was so much talent in that event, with Plushenko, Takahashi, Oda, Lambiel, Chan, Weir, Kozuka, Joubert and more. Had everyone skated cleanly, I think Evan may have ended up around 6th or 7th. The problem in 2010 was that pretty much everyone else blew it.
    Lambiel's career PBs are lower than Evan posted in Vancouver in both SP and LP by a large margin. About 7 points in both programs.

    Weir did skate cleanly and lost easily to Evan.

    Plushenko did skate cleanly with quads and still lost to Evan.

    Takahashi had only a fall which lost him 4 points and lost to Evan by 11, and that was even trying a quad when Evan didnt.

    Oda had a clean short and lost to Evan by 6 points in just the short.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I know Lambiel was at a disadvantage with having a flimsy 3Axel, but by "clean" are we going by the idea that he would have landed one in both the SP and LP?
    I wouldn't think so, as he didn't pop them into doubles. He never had any intention to do them to begin with. I still think he would've beaten Evan.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I think the PCS that Lambiel and Takahashi received (especially in the LP) may indicate otherwise. I know Lambiel was at a disadvantage with having a flimsy 3Axel, but by "clean" are we going by the idea that he would have landed one in both the SP and LP?

    Lysaceck may have been the reigning World Champion and gotten a bit of a PCS boost, but I think that year, even Abbott may have overtaken him if he skated well.
    If Lambiel without a triple axel couldnt beat Evan without a quad, it only proves Evan is that much better as a quad is worth points than a triple axel. It shows had both skated cleanly with both the quad and triple axel, Lambiel would lose by even more.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanlysacek View Post
    Lambiel's career PBs are lower than Evan posted in Vancouver in both SP and LP by a large margin. About 7 points in both programs.

    Weir did skate cleanly and lost easily to Evan.

    Plushenko did skate cleanly with quads and still lost to Evan.

    Takahashi had only a fall which lost him 4 points and lost to Evan by 11, and that was even trying a quad when Evan didnt.

    Oda had a clean short and lost to Evan by 6 points in just the short.
    Perhaps, but what I take from your question is how the results would have been had everyone skated PERFECTLY, or at least their very best. Plushenko was clean, but had some less than stellar elements. Evan beat him by just a hair and, unlike all the others, Evan never skated better programs in his life.

    With everyone skating their perfect programs, I believe Evan should've been beaten by Plush, Takahashi, Lambiel, Oda and Chan for sure, probably Joubert and Kozuka as well. Why? They are better quality skaters than Evan. (Plush probably wouldn't have won gold and may have even struggled to make the podium over Dai, Stephane and Nobu.)

    That's my answer to the question. Evan, at his best, has so-so skating skills and scratchy takeoffs and landings. While he worked his butt off (and it paid off for him), he never had the talent of the others and he is hardly a skating purist's dream.
    Last edited by skateboy; 04-04-2013 at 08:44 PM.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

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    It seems you are basing the placements on what YOU would have done with the scores, not on what the judges would do. The judges know more about figure skating than any of us, so what they would have done is what matters most, even if one of us disagrees. That is what my question is based on, what the judges would do. Nobu did a perfect short and skated 6 points behind Evan so it is obvious he has no chance. Stephane Lambiel has PBs way below Evan's Vancouver scores so it is obvious he has no chance too. Takahashi scored low even with only 1 mistake so it is prety obvious even he has no chance. The only ones that one could argue are Chan (his SP score was low for smaller mistakes so I doubt it), Plushenko, and maybe Joubert. Abbott's SP score for a clean short at rules already eliminates him too.

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    To be fair, most skaters would have probably scored higher than their PB if they all skated the best of their abilities. The judges in Vancouver were more generous with their scores. It just so happened that Lysaceck skated cleaner than the other men. You point about Oda is probably right though. I just think it's telling that in terms of PCS, Lambiel scored higher in both the SP and LP and Daisuke scored higher in PCS in the LP. Who knows if those would've been even higher had they skated better than they did. Couple that with getting the elements they missed and the GOEs, then you can make a claim that it is quite possible they would have overtaken Lysaceck.

  10. #10
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    Would Evan have won 2010 Olympics even had everyone skated cleanly


    Dream on!

  11. #11
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    How did plushenko not skate cleanly? Give me a break! Obviously if takahashi skated cleanly he would have won.

  12. #12
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    His performances as they were would have lost to all of Plushenko, Lambiel, Takahashi, Chan, Abbott, and maybe Joubert had they skated cleanly.

    His performances with a quad-triple in both still would have lost to Lambiel, Takahashi, and maybe Abbott had they skated cleanly.

    Oda, Weir, and Kozuka who were mentioned in this thread would have never beaten him sorry. These clean hypotheticals are getting ridiculous anyway though as figure skating is a tough sport and skating cleanly isnt even the norm except in ice dancing, and under COP even that arguably not anymore either. Evan's career is a bit lucky I still think, but he deserves credit for being a super consistent skater in his prime, which is a rare thing in the very challenging sport of figure skating.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanlysacek View Post
    Lambiel's career PBs are lower than Evan posted in Vancouver in both SP and LP by a large margin. About 7 points in both programs.

    Weir did skate cleanly and lost easily to Evan.

    Plushenko did skate cleanly with quads and still lost to Evan.

    Takahashi had only a fall which lost him 4 points and lost to Evan by 11, and that was even trying a quad when Evan didnt.

    Oda had a clean short and lost to Evan by 6 points in just the short.
    Taka had a < fall and < on both of his triple Lutzs.

  14. #14
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    Takahasi's quad was worth 9.8 but with the ur he went down two 4 points and then with negative goe went down to 1 point and with the minus one deduction went down to nothing. So his 3+ rotations got him no points whatsoever. That was rightly changed! Quads are now worth 10.3! < is not as bad but << is.

  15. #15
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    Let's say that you all conclude that no, Evan wouldn't have won if everyone had skated cleanly.

    Everyone still didn't skate cleanly and Evan still won.

    I never understand the purpose behind these threads. Not only are they purely speculative, they are purely speculative about something that already happened and can't be changed.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  16. #16
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    Counterfactuals are fun?

    Probably....

    1. Lambiel
    2. Takahashi - wins base value, but loses GOES and slightly PCS to Lambiel
    3. Chan - if Chan has the rise he had in 2010/2011 with the quad, I think he would be pull it off. But presuming he doesn't, third for him
    4. Lysacek - dependable, but when everyone's this good.....
    5. Plushenko - he was basically clean in Vancouver.

  17. #17
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    Lambiel not only didnt have the triple axel but he didnt even have quad-triple or triple-triple combinations. At the end of every jump he only did doubles. I am not sure but I would guess his base value was probably even lower than Evan`s or Chan`s who werent doing quads, but were doing everything else. I still think he would have beaten Evan but I highly doubt he is the winner if EVERYONE skates cleanly. Takahashi almost certainly is, Lambiel maybe silver at best.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanlysacek View Post
    I think Evan would have won the last Olympics even if everyone had skated cleanly. Who agrees with me. At the very least had he done a quad in both programs his short would be 100 points and his long 180 points and made him unbeatable even by all skating cleanly, but I think even his performances and scores were unbeatable for the others as they were.
    This is such a loooooooooooooooong stretch. Evan hadn't been able to put a quad in his competitions for over a year. He finally tried once to see his own luck at 2010 Nationals, but he failed. How could you assume that he could put a quad in both SP and LP? I can't imagine that. What a sweet dream though! But no, if everyone skated clean, Evan wouldn't have been on the podium.

    Had Brian Joubert skated clean at 2009 World, Evan wouldn't have won the world title either.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Lambiel not only didnt have the triple axel but he didnt even have quad-triple or triple-triple combinations. At the end of every jump he only did doubles. I am not sure but I would guess his base value was probably even lower than Evan`s or Chan`s who werent doing quads, but were doing everything else. I still think he would have beaten Evan but I highly doubt he is the winner if EVERYONE skates cleanly. Takahashi almost certainly is, Lambiel maybe silver at best.
    Lambiels base value was higher than chan lysacek plushenko.

    lambiel did 3F+3T
    Last edited by caseyedwards; 04-05-2013 at 08:16 AM.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Oda, Weir, and Kozuka who were mentioned in this thread would have never beaten him sorry.
    Ah, how quickly we forget. Based on the fall comps before Olys, Oda was heavily favored to challenge Plush for the gold. He was landing 4-3s. Of course, he had a disastrous Olys and didn't even try a quad. But at his best, yes, he could have beaten Evan.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

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