View Poll Results: Does 'Chanflation' exist?

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  • Yes

    127 60.19%
  • No

    79 37.44%
  • Don't know

    5 2.37%
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    I suggest checking out the new Frank Carroll interview on the Skating Podcast (it's in GSD). He talks about Denis, Patrick and "Chanflation." right at the beginning of the interview. VERY interesting to hear his take on the whole issue.

    http://www.theskatinglesson.com/fran...erview-part-1/
    Frank Carroll is finally realizing Figure Skating is not judged fairly, and has probably never been. But nothing to do with Patrick Chan and supposed Chanflation. Good.

  2. #82
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    ^^ I doubt Frank Carroll is just now realizing that fact when he lived through it in a trial by fire ... Maybe you're just realizing that he has had to deal with and knows more about the dirty underside of figure skating judging and politics than either you or I hopefully ever will. Frank also confirms as is pretty apparent that U.S. coaches and officials have never been too good at figure skating politicking. It really reeks what went on among the judges at the Lake Placid Olympics. But even watching at home as a young person who knew not much about figure skating, it seemed to me that something really was pretty strange about Annett Poetzch winning over Linda Fratianne at those Olympics.

    In comparison, Chanflation is probably to Frank mainly just one of the current minor annoyances of IJS, among many. Of course Frank is not gonna complain about Patrick's win, or get caught up in the slang terminology. And Frank is right, it's a victory for Denis regardless, even though there is clearly a problem with the scoring (especially in the components) when you examine the performances and the scores closely for both sets of programs.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    Then you'd know how obsolete these people's minds are. I believe they do study the new rules - well, some of them do. However, their mind cannot jump out of the old schools. How can you make someone happy with the new things if their mind stuck in the past?

    Patrick makes mistakes often. And Patrick wins most of the time. That's where "Chanflation" came from. It was from the people whose favorites lost. Has he really been having the so called "Chanflation"? About 95% of the time, I could say NO! If people insist that there was "Chanflation" going on in most major competitions Chan attended, they should at least admit that there were "Tenflation", "Takahashiflation", "Hanyuflation", "Plushyflation", "Joubertflation", and so on... But no, they chose not to acknowledge those at least equally, sometimes more, questionable marks. Nor would they admit that there were much more truly unexplainable inflations in the old 6.0 system.
    The last time Plushenko fell three times in one program, he was NOT rewarded for it!! He finished WAAAY down in the standings (although, in all fairness, the last time he did that was 2004!!) I am not 'stuck in the past'. I acknowledge that this wretched system is here to stay. All I can say is, (and if this is a 'hats off' to the old 6.0, then so be it) I want to see a World or Olympic champion who can complete his program ON HIS FEET, not having zamboni'ed half of the rink with his arse on the way there! Trying and continually failing must be hard work. But as long as he can spin and do footwork and transition like that, why not?? the man is a brilliant skater when he's 'ON"..but to receive such high scores after the falls just boggles the mind. I still don't get how you can get credit for things you ATTEMPT, but that you do not complete. From strictly a spectators POV, I do not enjoy watching skating anymore. Used to be, you skated clean, and you won with difficult elements AND the ability to defeat gravity. And I'm talking AFTER the demise of the 6.0. Even Evan Lysacek, who did not have a quad that didn't hurt him, chose to skate a clean program rather than trying to include the quad, which he probably would have either fallen out of or two-footed. HE knew the value and impact of a clean skate. had he tried the quad, from the correct take-off edge, made the rotation and crashed unceremoniusly into the boards, he would now be a footnote in skating history. There would have been no contest. Instead, his intellegent decision to omit the faulty quad garnered him the Olympic Gold..

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Axel View Post
    I still don't get how you can get credit for things you ATTEMPT, but that you do not complete. From strictly a spectators POV, I do not enjoy watching skating anymore. Used to be, you skated clean, and you won with difficult elements AND the ability to defeat gravity. And I'm talking AFTER the demise of the 6.0. Even Evan Lysacek, who did not have a quad that didn't hurt him, chose to skate a clean program rather than trying to include the quad, which he probably would have either fallen out of or two-footed. HE knew the value and impact of a clean skate. had he tried the quad, from the correct take-off edge, made the rotation and crashed unceremoniusly into the boards, he would now be a footnote in skating history. There would have been no contest. Instead, his intellegent decision to omit the faulty quad garnered him the Olympic Gold..
    There you go. It has just proved what I've said about "stuck in the past". Nuff said.

    Partial credit, that's part of CoP.

    "Clean skate" was the only card that Lysacek owned in order to compete with the top guys. He didn't have a quad anymore. If he put a quad into his program, it was guaranteed to fail. With his other non-outstanding qualities, one fall would have taken him out of the contention. So he had no choice but to skate clean with only triples if he wanted to stay competitively.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    There you go. It has just proved what I've said about "stuck in the past". Nuff said.

    Partial credit, that's part of CoP.

    "Clean skate" was the only card that Lysacek owned in order to compete with the top guys. He didn't have a quad anymore. If he put a quad into his program, it was guaranteed to fail. With his other non-outstanding qualities, one fall would have taken him out of the contention. So he had no choice but to skate clean with only triples if he wanted to stay competitively.
    I know about partial credit...and I think it's absolute bullshit. A jump is a jump..a single element. NOT a bunch of pieces stuck together. Either you complete ALL of it, or you tank it, and should receive NO points for it! So, you took off right, got up there, got the revolutions in, and then crash landed. Somehow, it just gives skaters the opportunity to put in an element thay cannot complete, get half of the thing done, and then blow off the landing. Who cares if you can't land your quad?? You got 2 out of three right, and got points for those...UGH. It's a system that rewards skating above your ability. Ugly, ADHD fueled programs, everyone trying to cram as much into their programs as they can to get points. Call me 'stuck in the past' if you want. I'm not a skater myself. I have always been a spectator. And this system is NOT pretty to watch, except on very rare occasions. All I know is what I like to WATCH. (As I'm sure there are a good many people on here who feel the same way. ) I don't want to have to have a calculator handy when I'm watching competitions. Rarely will I see a skater competing now who truly inspires. There is one I've got my eye on for Sochi...I think he may just sneak past everyone who is looking at Chan and Ten, and may well surprise the lot of them.. Cannot wait for next season, if only for the priveledge of watching this young man skate...

    As for Lysacek in Vancouver..he did stay competitive. Right up onto the Gold position on the podium.

  6. #86

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    Even though they're not entirely comparable, gymnastics went through a fugly period (where it's still existing but in a less extreme form) where gymnasts were just chucking skills and doing routines way above their skill level and getting credit for it. Of course, that was a reaction to safe 10.0 routines where boring, safe gymnasts who got to the 10.0 SV were being rewarded over gymnasts with more exciting routines who completed their elements but with a bit more execution errors.

    I think they've been trying to figure out that balance for the past decade or so in gymnastics, and I see the same thing happening in figure skating.

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skater91 View Post
    I Agree! Reading some of the comments made by people on here, it seems like a lot of people are stuck in the past and have not bothered to keep up to date with the rules.
    Trying to hang on to the so called "glory days" of the 6.0
    The term is unfortunate, as it is not about Patrick; neither it is about being stuck in the past.
    It is about the desire to adjust a relatively new and ever- changing system so that it has the best chance of rewarding the best skater of every particular competition. Currently I feel it is broken down into so many pieces that judges cannot operate in it without pre- judging. It does not matter whether it was the same under 6.0; what matters is that ideally it should not be the case.
    People say that PCSs is not "artistic mark"; neither it is, I hope, a SS mark or a placement/reputation mark. Carroll addresses Ten's PCS increase from Short to Long; while it is somewhat inevitable that judges adjust their opinions based on SP success or failure, it should be minimized. PCS are not judged separately, which is another big problem IMO.
    And I agree with posters who say that jump must be judged as a whole element, not "entrance/height/rotation/ landing". Well, except perhaps a difficult entrance bonus. Currently we see the system "pixelate" certain elements while ignoring bigger PCS distinctions.
    But again, the whole debate is about the system and the ways to improve it, not about Patrick per se, who is an amazing skater.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    Personally, I've read the rules. I like most of them. And no, I don't really understand Chan's victory. I had Chan 3rd or 4th in the LP and bronze overall (I thought Fernandez was hosed more than Ten, frankly).
    Who should have won the silver medal overall in your analysis, Fernandez? Chan had an 18 points lead, roughly, to Fernandez after the short program and for Chan to take the bronze overall, he would have had to score around 150 points for the free skate, no? And since no analyst of Chan's FS had any serious complaint about his technical mark, it means his PC mark was the issue. So, if we keep Chan's technical mark at 82, we would have to bring Chan's PCS down to 68 for him to get a total segment score of 150 and for Fernandez to go home with the silver medal. By 17 points lower than the PCS of Takahashi who fell on the 3A and had just one (underrotated) quad and just one jump combination? By 9 points lower than the PCS of Brezina who had two falls? By 4 points behind the PCS of Verner who doubled and singled most of his jumps? Really? If Chan's PCS doesn't make sense for what he put out on the ice, perhaps we should question quite a few other PCSs and try to revise them. Or maybe my math is poor?

  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    I do believe Patrick's SS seem to overcome the fact that he is not a great artist on the level of Toller Cranston, John Curry, Robin Cousins, Jeremy Abbott, Paul Wylie, and Matt Savoie. But in addition to not yet reaching that level of great artistry, Patrick does not possess the jumping consistency and fierce, palpable macho presence and determination of Yagudin and Plushenko. Neither does Patrick have the natural creativity and smooth lyricism of Christopher Bowman, Johnny Weir, Stephane Lambiel, AND Denis Ten! Not even does Patrick yet rise to the level of artistic excellence and showmanship possessed by his countrymen: Kurt Browning, Brian Orser, Emanuel Sandhu, Shawn Sawyer, and Jeffrey Buttle. IMO neither does Patrick possess the authenticity and technical brilliance of Elvis Stojko, Brian Boitano, Todd Eldredge, and Scott Hamilton. What Patrick does have in spades is a good heart, loads of charisma off-ice, fairly consistent quads as a weapon, and those amazing wunderbar SS that are his bread and butter. To his credit, Patrick has worked on his artistry, but right now it's still a bit studied in my view, altho' his SS do compensate very effectively as usual in combination with his progress in the artistic realm, when he manages to stay on his feet.
    You do know that the skaters you have grouped as 'great' is based on a subjective opinion?

    I think COP has allowed a new breed of skaters to develop - those with great basics who have the capacity to elevate technique to art. I'd include both Chan, Fernadez and Denis in that group. None are natural artists/performers IMO, not the way that Takahashi or Lambiel is.

    Some skaters in the past have fit in this category as well, but the 6.0 system didn't allow them to flourish in the way the COP does. Fumie Suguri comes to mind as one with great basics in terms of SS.

    And I wonder if Browning is more like Chan than Petrenko.

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    ? Really? If Chan's PCS doesn't make sense for what he put out on the ice, perhaps we should question quite a few other PCSs and try to revise them. Or maybe my math is poor?
    Maths always only apply to PChiddy.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

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