View Poll Results: Does 'Chanflation' exist?

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  • Yes

    127 60.19%
  • No

    79 37.44%
  • Don't know

    5 2.37%
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  1. #21
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    It doesn't have to be as extreme as changing the scoring system. We already have precedent of the ISU changing things around to appease the fans and viewers of the sport such as adding the short program, getting rid of compulsories (although smaller federations were also supporting this), etc.

  2. #22
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    So should the question be "should Denis Ten have won Worlds?"

    I have not seen Denis live but i have Seen Patrick live and at his best as i watched him practice the week before worlds. There is just NOT an ice surface on earth big enough for him. He's amazing amazing. STILL, i do think that Denis Ten gave an incredible performance and was stellar. Under the 6.0 system, he would have won. .The 6.0 system however was more the spirit of the law. The Code of Points is the letter of the law which Patrick was judged by and rightfully won under

  3. #23

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    I think it is funny though - that some people act as though there have only been results people disagreed with in IJS and that the marking under 6.0 solves everything. Yes - I do agree that with the placements being the way they were after the short - that under 6.0 Denis Ten would have won - if only because the skater in the top 3 who won the free program automatically won the competition. And in this case - it would have made more people more satisfied.

    However, would Ten - without a reputation for such programs have had a shot after the short in 6.0? Would he have been in the top 3?
    In 6.0 skaters out of the top 3 were "not in control of their own destiny" and in a time when it is arguable reputation made it more difficult for someone of Ten's world standing would he have been given the ordinals to be top 3?

    And anyone who tells themselves that figure skating results always made sense to the masses - or even the "experts" under 6.0 has a selective memory!

  4. #24
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    I think people have a hard time remembering a time where a skater with four major mistakes was still able to win the title over another skater who skated as well as he could have with high technical content (even if it's not the highest technical content) under 6.0. It has happened though. Under 6.0 with the SP and LP and factored placements, is there an argument that Chan deserved to be lower than second in the LP in order for Ten (who may not have been in the top three after the SP) to win?

    Although this poll certainly isn't the most reliable measure we have, I do think it's telling. I think the fact that the term has gotten attention in the limited media that covers figure skating coupled with many skating fans have been using that term for the past few seasons indicate that rightly or wrongly, many perceive that Chan can rely on a huge PCS boost to carry him to victories when his LP skates have been less than stellar.

  5. #25

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    No, but tiny minds think it does
    Addicted to FSU

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by arakwafan2006 View Post
    So should the question be "should Denis Ten have won Worlds?"
    No that shouldnt be the question, as Chan has had many more controversial wins and medals than just the recent Worlds, and has had many far worse ones than this years Worlds to boot. People, including experts, journalists, and fellow skaters alike are just so fed up at this point they are now becoming alot more vocal.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Accordion View Post
    However, would Ten - without a reputation for such programs have had a shot after the short in 6.0? Would he have been in the top 3?
    In 6.0 skaters out of the top 3 were "not in control of their own destiny" and in a time when it is arguable reputation made it more difficult for someone of Ten's world standing would he have been given the ordinals to be top 3?
    I think so. It happened to Paul Wylie at Olympics, who had a worse international track record than Ten.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I think people have a hard time remembering a time where a skater with four major mistakes was still able to win the title over another skater who skated as well as he could have with high technical content (even if it's not the highest technical content) under 6.0. It has happened though.
    Viktor Petrenko's 1992 Worlds winning LP was quite flawed (just watched it the other day), but I don't remember how his competitors skated, even Browning. I was watching Petrenko since he's the last man I could think of who could win competitions a la Chan with flawed performances (mainly jump mistakes).

  9. #29

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    There have been quite a few skaters who could win with flawed programs. First 2 that come to mind are Kurt Browning and Stephane Lambiel - but they are just the first 2 - I know there were many more. Also - a turnout and or doubling a jump weren't necessarily considered mistakes under 6.0. So if you were to look back at winners under 6.0 without "mistakes" as people are now calling them -there would probably be a ton more if you counted those 2 things as mistakes.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Not scandal on the same level as in 2002.

    But if the results don't match what fans and commentators who have their own opinions of what the rules should be or how the existing rules should be applied, there will be outrage. And if the commentators get outraged, the casual viewers and the mainstream press in that country will as well.
    My local commentators of figure skating usually agree with the official judges - about Chan too - and they way prefer the COP to the 6.0 system. Might be the explanation to why scores and results don't get me outraged so easily.

  11. #31

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    Wylie didn't put out the kind of technical performance Ten did. In general I want to say I don't necessarily believe one fall one mistake and your out I don't disagree with B/S winning Olympic Gold over S/P.

    However I do have a pretty big issue with people making multiple major errors and winning due to their huge PCS. My problem is PCS are very subjective in a lot of ways and they concept that errors shouldn't be taken into account at all.

    I'm wondering if what we need is a clean program bonus, but I wouldn't mind if the clean program bonus got tied to the base value of the skate....

    I will say that watching Laura Lepisto double most of her jumps while the program had no falls, I failed to consider it "clean" at least at this level of competition. And I do think the level of the competition counts.
    Last edited by bek; 04-05-2013 at 02:37 PM.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Point values and judges' use of program components can be adjusted so that blatant mistakes will be more costly and so that superficially clean programs will be more highly rewarded just for cleanness in addition to whatever other positive qualities they gain points for.
    Yes, although there is a degree as how far a system should go, just like rewarding on quad jumps. The system has to endeavor to find balance between rewarding risk-taking and rewarding clean programs.

    The measurement of rewarding a clean program alone can significantly undermine the athletic aspect of this sport. Not just jumps, but also spins and footworks, which, I believe as a sport, need to be encouraged in the boundary pushing. Using cleanness alone measures a competition result is too shallow an approach. There are a lot going on beneath the mistakes which need to be analysed before making a decision for the placement.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    If more changes are made in those directions, it will become less common for better skaters to win even with several mistakes.

    But even so, there would still be some occasions when all the best skaters make mistakes and the next-best skater with a clean program is not quite in the top ranks on PCS or attempted base value or quality of successful elements. And so the cleanest program would not win. And observers who believe mistakes should spell defeat will still be dissatisfied.
    Exactly. No one, no system on earth could eliminate the outcry from the people who are dissatisfied with the results of a competition that is involved with subjectivity. So it is perfectly normal.

    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    The only ways to guarantee that performances with certain types or numbers of mistakes will never win would be to disqualify the skater as soon as those mistakes have been verified.
    True, but that is impossible given the nature of this sport. I think most of the people, fans and skaters themselves, don't want to see this.
    Last edited by Eyre; 04-05-2013 at 05:54 PM.

  13. #33
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    It exists, insofar as reputation scoring exists.

    But Chan is hardly the first or the only skater to benefit from reputation scoring.

  14. #34
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    I love Chan but.......

  15. #35
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    I dont know why people focus only on PCS, as Chan is grossly overscored on both PCS and GOE, and the inflated GOE matter a great deal in giving him his 6 fall cushion on the field as well.

  16. #36
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    Of course Chanflation exists. As does:

    Kwan-itis
    Yagudin-osis
    Virtue and Moir-ostomy
    Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze-algia, and of course
    Grishuk and Platov-orrhea
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    People, including experts, journalists, and fellow skaters alike are just so fed up at this point they are now becoming alot more vocal.
    And there are also lots of people saying that his win was fair under the way the judging system works. But I guess you can't hear them because you are screaming so loudly about how unfair it all is
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  18. #38

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    God, this is tiresome.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DFJ View Post
    God, this is tiresome.
    Like it or not people feel that way whether or not his scores are justified. The only way for this to be fixed is to tweak the scoring system yet again or for Chan to actually perform up to his potential at Worlds/Olympics and shut all of his critics up. It happened in the SP at Worlds, so maybe he'll be able to do it for both the SP and LP next season.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by vodkashot View Post
    It exists, insofar as reputation scoring exists.

    But Chan is hardly the first or the only skater to benefit from reputation scoring.
    I don't think Chan benefits from reputation scoring per se because his skating is actually lovely. Even his attempted athletic content is good. The problem is that his athletic execution lacks, but the judging system does not properly account for poor execution.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 04-05-2013 at 07:05 PM.

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