"If I agree well it's just to appease you 'cause I don't remember what were fighting for..." - Sarah McLachlan
For the record I'm from North America and I agreed with the original result at the 2002 Olympics, I felt B/S deserved to win the Gold medal outright. And I felt all the crying, pouting and moaning by S/P and especially the media (especially Scott) was extremely poor sportsmanship. The teams were close for sure, but someone wins and the other comes in 2nd. BTW: Scott seems to have changed his tune now that this current situation is brewing. It is refreshing actually.
However for the first time yet regarding Chan I predict it will go in the opposite direction in a big way next season. The huge controversy of his win at this years Worlds which has disgusted virtually the whole skating World, and created an even bigger outcry than his win at Worlds last year which was in actuality probably even worse (though he skated less bad last year, but his competition was better), and after 3 years of insanity the judges are going to be very careful in scoring Chan next season. A controversy even close to on par with Worlds this year and figure skating will be atleast temporarily removed from the Olympics altogether. I wouldnt even be surprised if it goes the other direction next year, instead of having to skate only 55% as well as his nearest competitor to win as has been the case since 2010 for Chan, in the 2013-2014 season, especialy at the 2014 Olympics, he might have to skate 10-15% better than his nearest competitor to win.
Last edited by judgejudy27; 04-05-2013 at 10:58 PM.
judgejudy, he won by one point over a guy who also had at least one fall worth of mistakes (doubling the flip). So he had four falls worth of mistakes, Ten had one fall worth of mistakes, so over Ten Chan has a three fall barrier. Using your logic. And this is what I can't stand. I can believe Chanflation exists in as much as I \believe that Chan's scores are unfairly high for what he puts on the ice. But when you have people twisting facts, ignoring truths and dismissing context it manages to so thoroughly change my mind. It's actually amusing.
I voted I don't know, for what it's worth.
Chanflation is just an unfortunate label that came about as a reaction to/ result of the current phenomenon of judges being overly and consistently mesmerized by Patrick Chan's SS combined with his fairly quick and masterful command of quads (despite the fact his 3-axel, technical consistency and overall artistry are not generally as spectacular). The IJS scoring system is simply a joke and the excuse successfully leaned upon by some fans, and of course by ISU's anonymous judges who in fact IJS was partly created to protect in the first place.
The question is not whether Chanflation exists (it's associative and reactionary slang with a variety of meanings, depending upon who you ask). The real question (at least in my mind) is whether or not ISU and judges will learn anything from the latest evidence that IJS and ISU judges' decision-making are whack.
Yeah JJ is at it once again. Just because she says it is so, apparently is must be so. I really wish she'd give it a rest for a while. Wherever there is a topic about Chan or the marking of men's skating at the present time, you can be sure she will enter the thread and reiterate her reasons why SHE is right.
Crazy about sports!
whether or not it exists, one has to admit that Patrick is a talented skater. He plays by the rules, knows what the IJS is about and skates to the rules. Even if he falls, he does what needs to be done to get the points. Am I his biggest fan? No. Do I like that he gets the points despite the falls (yeah, I know that technically they aren't according to the rulebook)? no But he is a smart skater.
I suspect part of the issue here is the same thing that occurred with Michelle vs. world, Evengi vs. world, YuNa vs. the world. Some people want to see the variety in skating or the unknown factor in skating - sort of like the Rudi Galindo win. I also find it tiring that some people think I am anti-Canada because of my preferences in skaters :shrug:
Evgeny skated perfectly to win all his major titles apart from the 2004 Worlds where he had a simple fall on nothing at the end, and a couple minor bobbles in the 2003 Worlds (where he edged Goebel who only landed the same # of quads and also had a couple bobbles and isnt near the skater Evgeny is). Yu Na Kim also skated virtually perfectly to win all her titles, the only foot she put wrong being a missed triple salchow in the LP at the 2001 Worlds. When she faltered even a little bit the judges always bumped her out of gold, even when others made mistakes too- 2007 Worlds, 2008 Worlds, 2010 Worlds, 2011 Worlds.
Chan isnt allowed to lose no matter what he does. He could have his gold medals mailed to him, and not bother attending as it is a foregone conclusion no matter how terribly he performs or how amazingly well anyone else does, he will be placed 1st. Atleast others that dominated totally like Irina Rodnina still had to actually skate for their titles, they couldnt be mailed to them.
I just rewatched men’s final group at the last worlds.
Thank God Chan was declared the overall winner.
While I wish the world champion to have skated more cleanly, I’m amazed by that people, even the supposedly knowledgeable fans at this forum, discount the obvious margin in quality of overall skating, which was rightfully reflected in the final score. Ten is no match to Chan in quality.
Crazy about sports!
I agree in part. As currently written, most of the Program Components are element-blind. If you look at Skating Skills, for example, there is nothing in the description and scoring criteria to tell a judge to consider what jumps the skater did or didn't land. So, as long as the skater is performing with his usual speed and edge quality, this score should remain pretty constant from program to program for any given skater. OTOH, I think Interpretation and Performance/Execution should be reduced when a skater has multiple errors, because jumping errors do take away from the musical interpretation and effectiveness of the program. Personally, I can't argue with Chan still getting the event's best Skating Skills mark even with two falls, I can and do argue with him getting a big mark for how he interprets the music while sitting on his ass or stumbling out of a jump.I don't like Patrick either but he deserves every component he receives.
I think that is how the judges are reading it, but I really do not think that was what was intended when the Program Components were first developed. It would not take much rewording to make clearer to the judges that at least some of the components need to reflect the totality of the programs effectiveness. For skating skills, they could add flow and sureness of edges on element entrances and exits, for example.My problem is PCS are very subjective in a lot of ways and they concept that errors shouldn't be taken into account at all.
ITA, This is why I think the ISU has to revise the PCS write-up to make sure judges are looking at the totality of the program and its effectiveness as a performance when scoring them. It has become a credibility issue. Right now, only a small community of skating fans and journalists have noticed, but they really should not want this kind of result to happen under the bigger light of the Olympics. After SLC, the IOC's patience with figure skating has already grown pretty thin.The scandal and travesty really would be that many casual viewers of skating watching the Olypmpic games would view the competition as a popularity contest rather than a sport.
I will admit I haven't read the whole thread, but in my opnion:
Even if people believe "Chanflation" exists, it has existed as "inflation" for years and years. Some (not all) top skaters have been overmarked at times, and it's part of the history of this sport, like it or not.
With figure skating, of course I could be all wrong but I have the feeling it's not the ISJ per se most people are unhappy with but rather how this system has been (incorrectly) applied to Patrick Chan over the years and if my assumption is correct, a much simpler way to fix the matter than change the rules would be for the ISU to invite Todd Eldredge, Johnny Weir, Evgeni Plushenko, Oleg Vassiliev and Jackie Wong to serve as official judges, as well as a few other people who have a problem with Patrick's scores and who've been involved in figure skating in various capacities for many years. I suppose no one would ever question their knowledge of figure skating or their objectivity.
And lowtherlore, I don't know what your definition of quality is -- maybe it's "skating while Patrick Chan," which means in that case, you don't think anyone else possesses quality. There is no denying that Chan holds the patent on ubiquitous quality SS (but that doesn't actually make him look better than most skaters while impersonating a Zamboni). What you apparently fail to recognize is that Denis skated more cleanly and more cohesively which is quality in the eyes of the majority of viewers, and in the eyes of the majority of skating cognoscenti (which may not include ISU, btw). However, even some judges on the judging panel would probably disagree with you that Denis is "no match" to Chan in quality. The quality of Chan's SS, are insufficient to overcome his consistent errors in important competitions -- and that's a majority fan opinion, believe it or NOT.
If we're doing a breakdown, like is often done in tennis, Chan wins on SS, speed and ice coverage; and D10 and Chan are even on transitions, while D10 wins on smooth natural flow, innate artistry, interpretation, choreography, technical achievement, performance execution, program concept, and enthusiastic audience reaction. After the standing ovation for D10's performance, I seriously doubt that Canadian fans would have been pissed off had Denis edged Chan for the overall win.
What's amazin' in my view is the way exaggeration on both sides of the coin continues on and on. Those driving the nail through everyone's head re the point of Chan's consistent major wins with too many errors are obviously exceedingly annoyed. Chan fans kept a bit quiet at first in the face of Chan's clear embarrassment but now they are apparently hoping what happened in London and Nice will not repeat in Sochi. And so to drown out those with long memories, Chan fans as usual are overly relying on faulty IJS scoring system and Chan's humongous SS, seeming to feel that by constantly saying Chan is so much better than everyone else really really, that maybe it will be accepted as true. IMO, the only way that's going to be true is if Chan quits making errors on his way to big judge-assisted wins over skaters who have superb qualities and who overall skate better.