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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    I always find these kinds of comments really bizarre. Firstly, because I believe we spend our entire lives figuring out who we are (and I don't actually think we ever really know fully), and secondly, just because you have a partner, doesn't mean you can't figure out who you are. It's the relationships we make (romantic and platonic) that help us understand ourselves and each other. I think it's some ridiculous myth that people "find themselves" after college, or a trip away, or anything else. We can be, and IMHO should be, constantly working on who we are, and who we want to be, discovering new ways to do things, trying new things, continuing with old things, learning etc. - it's called life. Very few people reach their potential, very few people ever know their full potential; some people - maybe even most - are very happy just doing what they're doing, without even thinking about whether they're reaching their potential. Because let's face it, there's always more we can do to better ourselves, our lives, and the lives of others (and for some, this means working less, getting married, getting divorced, not going to college, going to college etc).
    What I mean is that we're trying to articulate who we are and what we want at that age. From my experience in college, I had a really hard time articulating my fears and had yet to be okay with my shortcomings. Many classmates I knew were like this. And we were all highly intelligent and capable. We just didn't see it until we graduated and no longer had to compete with one another, even subconsciously.

    It's not so much figuring out our life path, cause God knows I've changed my mind about my life path several times already. But a good number of us were still developing our self-esteem back then. And judging from how my college relationship went, a relationship where both partners have extremely low self-esteem is not a very happy one.

    I'm not sure where I/we going to end up, even 6 months from now. But I have the confidence now to say that I/we will figure it out and I will be all right and nobody's going to judge me and I will not be a failure. And that's not what I had at 22.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilovepaydays View Post

    The part of this that bothered me (and I am a 32 year old woman who has never married), is that this woman assumes that after about 30, all single women just gets desperate and "settle for what they can get" for a husband. And they then end up less happy then they could be.
    Eh, she has a point. A lot of women waste their 20s on lousy guys who don't treat them that well, and justify this with the claim, "I'm not looking to get married until my 30s because I'm working on my career!" They think they have time to play with, so they put up with some poor behavior. Then their 30s come, a lot of the good men are taken, and some of the women realize that the time they wasted on dweebs could have been spent on better men. This is by no means an absolute, but it happens far too often.
    Last edited by heckles; 04-02-2013 at 02:03 PM.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by J-Ro View Post
    Apparently the nutty mother never bothered to consider that through the miracle of modern biological science, women can now freeze their eggs so that their, uh, shelf life can be extended tremendously.
    Better have gone to Princeton though to get a job that allows you to afford to do that sort of thing! I don't think most people have this option!


    For the record I got married just out of college to someone I met in high school (but didn't date then). We went to rival colleges and had a semi-long distance relationship through college. My last year of college he moved much further away because he graduated before me. I'm glad I married young, we've been very happy together. I'm also glad I got the independence of college without always having a boyfriend around. And the rival college thing sometimes sucks, because I'm forced to not care about my school (since sports aren't THAT important to me) because he gets damn pissy when his school loses, so I can't even have a little bit of happiness for mine. It is seriously the only fight we've ever had in 8 years and it happens about every 3. I'd also say that most of my friends married someone right out of college who they either met at our school or through a connection to another college. So for me, college was very much a time to find your partner in life.

  4. #24

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    Any girl who thinking about dating her son should run far, far away, because whoever marries him will get her as a mother-in-law.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    Eh, she has a point. A lot of women waste their 20s on lousy guys who don't treat them that well, and justify this with the claim, "I'm not looking to get married until my 30s because I'm working on my career!" They think they have time to play with, so they put up with some poor behavior. Then their 30s come, a lot of the good men are taken, and some of the women realize that the time they wasted on dweebs could have been spent on better men. This is by no means an absolute, but it happens far too often.
    I agree with this and I think her roundabout advice to think about the kind of partner you want to spend your life with is good – and not given enough to young people. Essentially, she is saying be pickier about your men but be smart about how you do it too. It is kind of unfortunate that her message is getting lost in the “MRS” sexist thing when I think it is actually empowering advice.
    Figure skating is hard.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    What I mean is that we're trying to articulate who we are and what we want at that age.
    My original post stands, and I can say exactly the same thing to your reply. Firstly, I think people do this at every age. I'm 33 and working out what I want at 33. Secondly, there's nothing to say having a partner prevents you from doing this; a partner may actually help.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    My original post stands, and I can say exactly the same thing to your reply. Firstly, I think people do this at every age. I'm 33 and working out what I want at 33. Secondly, there's nothing to say having a partner prevents you from doing this; a partner may actually help.
    This is true but I think what can happen – and what is partly the phenomena that heckles referred to – is that a 22 year old girl may hook up with a 22 year old guy and they hit the bars every night and drink until 2am and have lots of fun. But then said 22 year old girl becomes 29 year old woman who wants to do other things like be ready for that 8 am meeting and maybe go to a play or something. But 29 year old guy is still hitting the bars.

    There is a higher risk when you are two 22 year olds (versus two 32 year olds) that you are not going to change or grow in the same way, or stay compatible. Obviously this is not always true but it happens. (And I know two 32 years olds can change in different ways as well, but IMO the risk is less).

    But that is why I think this is good advice – to think about what you are going to want at 32 while you are still 22, and have more options available.
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    My taste in men dramatically improved with age, so I am glad I waited to my early 30's to marry. I remember a lot of good times earlier, but the guys I was with were heading in a very different direction. The reasons for our splits were not obvious to me then, and some of the splits were painful, but I needed that time to learn more about what I really wanted (and was willing to give) in life.

  9. #29

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    I spent my teen years believing I would never have a boyfriend, and certainly never even dared to dream that a husband and children would be a part of my future. I had no choices, no strategy to determine who would be most suitable or who would be my perfect match; no smorgasbord of men for me.
    My husband is a smart, confident, successful and handsome extrovert. I am a fat, ugly and not terribly bright introvert who battles depression and self esteem issues constantly. He picked me up at a bus stop 32 years ago, and we celebrate our 25th anniversary this summer. He is the only guy in the world who ever actually looked into my eyes. I still don't understand how the hell this happened! I never had a plan or a checklist on determining the right mate for me....sometimes we just need to let life happen and let people into our lives without labeling them as a prospective partner or analyzing every single aspect of their lives for compatability.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by quartz View Post
    sometimes we just need to let life happen and let people into our lives without labeling them as a prospective partner or analyzing every single aspect of their lives for compatability.
    Proving the quartz is smarter than Princeton mom.

    I think some women waste a lot of time and energy on this stuff and I don't see that it actually gets them anywhere and definitely not closer to their goals. The idea that women are somehow "wasting" their college years because they aren't going after their relationships the way you go after a career implies that relationships can be planned and plotted out like a career and they can't. Well, you can try. But you are just going to frustrate yourself IMO.

    I never put up with shit guys in my 20s because I was thinking "I'm not ready to get married yet so it doesn't matter." I put up with shit guys because I didn't realize they were shit guys or because I was at a place in my life where I didn't think I deserved better. But I learned from those experiences and moved on.

    Also, there may have been more single guys my age when I was younger but the quality wasn't there so there really weren't more choices. There was just the allusion of more choices.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  11. #31

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    It's just one woman's opinion, I'm not sure why anyone is taking her so seriously.

    There was an article in the 80's that said if your not married by 25 (?) your changes of getting married was cut in half. What a bunch of drivel. To each his own, what works (or didn't work) for her won't be the same experience as everyone else.

  12. #32
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    You know, I thought I was perfectly happy not being married. I've never wanted children so I don't really have much motivation to get married. But thanks to Princeton lady, I realize that I should be slitting my wrists right now, because my happiness is supposed to depend on what kind of man I marry. Good to know. Off to find a razor.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    There was an article in the 80's that said if your not married by 25 (?) your changes of getting married was cut in half. What a bunch of drivel. To each his own, what works (or didn't work) for her won't be the same experience as everyone else.
    I wonder if some of this depends on where you live. I recently went to a cousins wedding (she was 31) and my friends were all SHOCKED it was her first wedding because "she's GORGEOUS, smart, and nice". They couldn't believe she hadn't been married sooner. But she lives in the Northeast. I don't think it is really common for 22-23 year olds to get married there. Like me, a huge portion of my friends got married upon graduation. In Texas- that is really really common. Most of my friends who weren't married out of college, still aren't married (we're about 31 now), though a few have gotten married this year, mostly ones who left the state for careers.


    So to see this attitude from a Princeton graduate is weird, becasue I don't expect it from the region. But in my experience the MRS degree is alive and well in Texas, though I think -most- women don't go to college ONLY for that.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    My original post stands, and I can say exactly the same thing to your reply. Firstly, I think people do this at every age. I'm 33 and working out what I want at 33. Secondly, there's nothing to say having a partner prevents you from doing this; a partner may actually help.
    But do you have low self-esteem? Do you want a partner who also has low self-esteem? It's one thing to be unsure of your future, it's another to feel like a failure. When you have low self-esteem, your real personality doesn't shine through, because you're too busy worrying about what other people think of you. My college bf in particular, could change his personality completely depending on who he was with and I never did get a good handle on what he was really like. He's on a completely different life path than I ever expected, because he's more confident with himself and what he wants.

    I'm much more okay with myself at 29 than I was at 22. I'm much better at vocalizing what I want and need, even if I'm unsure about it. I'm okay with the fact that I'm an introvert. That's actually a huge one for me, because a lot of college was me wondering if there was something wrong with me for not wanting to go out.

    Self-esteem in particular, is not helped by having a partner. I was a jealous beeeyotch to my college bf because of my low self-esteem, even though I guess I should have been excited since he was my first bf ever. Instead, I was afraid of losing him. Nobody would be lining up to marry or even date into that.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Also, there may have been more single guys my age when I was younger but the quality wasn't there so there really weren't more choices. There was just the allusion of more choices.
    Right. We were all pretty immature back in college. I say this as someone who's always been mistaken for five years older. I'm sure a lot of the guys I went to school with are catches now, and actually, most of the "alumni" marriages from my school come from alumni meeting AFTER they've graduated.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    I'm okay with the fact that I'm an introvert. That's actually a huge one for me, because a lot of college was me wondering if there was something wrong with me for not wanting to go out.
    Part of your increased self-acceptance could be stemming from the fact that the people around you aren't hassling you as much about your introversion. Society assumes that college students of traditional age who aren't extroverted are mentally damaged in some way. Introversion isn't exactly celebrated at 29, but there's more acceptance for it.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckles View Post
    Part of your increased self-acceptance could be stemming from the fact that the people around you aren't hassling you as much about your introversion. Society assumes that college students of traditional age who aren't extroverted are mentally damaged in some way. Introversion isn't exactly celebrated at 29, but there's more acceptance for it.
    Actually nobody really hassled me. I come from a family of introverts so it certainly isn't unusual in my circle. It was mostly pressure from myself, since I'd see people party and wonder why I wouldn't want to join in. And when I did go, I never really enjoyed it. And I didn't have peers who pressured me. My college bf was actually an extrovert with social anxiety, which is...difficult to navigate. But he never made me feel bad. Like with most things back then, it was a self-induced pressure.

    And then I read "Introvert Advantage" in senior year and it made SO MUCH SENSE.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I think it matters if it matters to you and doesn't if it doesn't.

    For her:

    After 27 years together, Patton and her ex-husband finalized their divorce last month. "He went to a school of almost no name recognition," she said, declining to name the institution. "Almost no name recognition. A school that nobody has respect for, including him, really."

    But she does wish she'd married a Princetonian. "Yes! Yes. Yes, I wish I married someone who went to Princeton," she replied when I asked. "That way I could have embraced Princeton for the thirty years that I stayed away from it because my ex-husband had no respect for the hoopla, the traditions, the allegiance, the orange and black

    It obviously matters, and so someone like her should definitely not marry anyone other than someone who has the "right" degree and social status. How she must have secretly sneered at her husband all those years for it to still rankle this way. She can decline to speak on the issue all she likes; she clearly does not think he was worthy of her.
    My takeaway from this is that that she was either bullied/ridiculed by the husband into giving up all that Princeton "nonsense" or that she self-sensored, and that's what she resents more than the fact at he didn't go to a fancy college. If he painted his body and went to every football game about his "no-name" brand college, they would have had more in common, values-wise, because then she could have donned tiger paraphenalia to her heart's content.

    It's also possible that he disapproved because he was intimidated by her degree and needed to put her down, which is a huge issue. My ex's father was a professor and thesis sponsor for scores of women, and he had never-ending stories of how the husbands would undermine them, especially the minority women, because a PhD would put the wives so much ahead. If this were the basis of his derision, then she's right that she'd have been happier with someone who didn't hold her education against her.

    I can't imagine being with someone who was all rah-rah about their college/university, but I went to a school that prided itself on its ironic attitude, at least when I was there decades ago. (Of course, if my constant didn't bother him, and we were otherwise compatible, I'd help him paint his back.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    I think it's some ridiculous myth that people "find themselves" after college, or a trip away, or anything else. We can be, and IMHO should be, constantly working on who we are, and who we want to be, discovering new ways to do things, trying new things, continuing with old things, learning etc. - it's called life. .
    There aren't many times in life that people find themselves living away from home for an extended period for the first time when they don't have to support themselves in full while experiencing it and have plenty of time on their hands and the ability to experiment with different personas, behavior, and situations. While this certainly isn't true of all college students, it is true of many, and the sharp learning curve in a consensed period of time, for better or worse, is, I think, what people are talking about, not that growth or change doesn't happen through out life. I'm the poster child for lethargy, but picked up and moved away from almost all of my family and friends at 37 and moved countries at 52, and understand that things don't have to be static, but none of these changes were comparable to the things I was exposed to during college.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 04-02-2013 at 07:15 PM.
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  18. #38

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    For all we know, the "no name, no respect" college the husband went to was Harvard. I'm siding with the husband. I don't even know my school's colours, let alone have any desire painting them on my body.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    For all we know, the "no name, no respect" college the husband went to was Harvard. I'm siding with the husband. I don't even know my school's colours, let alone have any desire painting them on my body.
    Seriously.

    And she really did just paint a huge "DON'T DATE ME" sign on her younger son's back. Nightmare future MIL, for sure!

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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    I don't even know my school's colours, let alone have any desire painting them on my body.
    Aging alumni who show up on campus every chance they can get in their XXL school sweatshirts and baseball caps, yammering away to the young students about some pizza place that isn't there anymore, are pretty annoying. The schools put up with them because occasionally they cough up some cash. Maybe your employer cares that you're a 1986 graduate of University of North Dakota but, really, few others do.

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