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  1. #121

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    My SO lives for intellectual conversations (imagine dating Niles Crane). We would totally have a discussion about Bachelard. But while I like those discussions periodically, I hit my saturation point much more quickly than he – which does frustrate both of us sometimes, when he wants to keep going with it and I want to go watch The Walking Dead. But he can balance it with being great fun too so, like in everything, we take the good with the bad.
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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    At least you know who Bachelard is -- I had to Google him.
    At least you didn't think they were talking about The Bachelor.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    I'm part of a comic book "geek" forum, and many guys there lament about not being able to find a comic geek girlfriend. The ones who are married or have girlfriends themselves are all like, "Um, the best you can hope for is someone who at least tolerates it."
    Yes and what they probably don't understand because they are young is that 20 years from now, they might not be comic book geeks either. So if the entire basis of the relationship is "OMG, I found a girl who likes comic books!" well, it might not last if the comic books don't

    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Yes. And I am sure that neither my husband nor I would have been happy with a mate we considered stupid. I would say that we are compatible in terms of intelligence, but have little in common in terms of intellect, if that makes sense. I would find it extremely irritating to live with someone who struggled to understand everyday things I consider simple. However, I would also find it very irritating to come home from work and have someone ask me what I think about Bachelard.
    Compatibility and a basic level is what I mentioned earlier. They can't be stupid and maybe they even have to be smart or at least above average. But definitely they don't have to be equal. And definitely that's not what my relationship is based on.

    Since I don't really want to get into my own marriage out here in public, I will give examples from my mother's two marriages.

    My mother is smart. Very, very smart. She belonged to Mensa and has a bunch of advanced degrees and graduated Summa Cum Laude. But when she married my Dad, they were both just HS graduates. My dad was not dumb. But he was not an intellectual either. He never did well in school, unlike my mom, who was actually offered some sort of academic scholarship to college back in the 50s when women going to college was rare. (She didn't take it because, for a smart woman, she could be dumb )

    Their marriage didn't last. Was it because my Dad wasn't an intellectual or wasn't her intellectual equal? On paper they had the same education and they definitely came from the same background and he wasn't dumb. But that wasn't it. The marriage didn't last because he was abusive, pure and simple. They also didn't have the same values (in spite of both being raised Roman Catholic and being Irish) or the same approach to life.

    There are some very basic things you need in a relationship -- respect, similar values, and not being abused are right up there -- and if those aren't there, the rest -- intellect, shared interests, etc. -- don't matter one iota.

    In her second marriage, she married someone who, on paper is also match education-wise, but is also not really an intellectual. OTOH, I think education is very important in his family unlike for my dad. So they match there. But they don't have similar backgrounds AT ALL. They come from different countries for starters! Is he smart? I have no idea. He's not dumb, that's for sure. But the relationship isn't about that. They have shared interests and they are compatible.

    But most importantly, he's a NICE GUY. He nurtures my mom and takes care of her. He's not the major bread winner but he doesn't sit at home eating bonbons either. He works really hard making sure the house is nice, not just doing housework, but remodeling it and gardening, and he makes sure all the little and big things get taken care of (taxes, cooking) so she can go out and conquer the bigger world. They take trips all over the world and have a great time together. I don't worry about her in her old age, because she has him.

    But, no, they don't talk about Bachelard either. Don't get me wrong, my mom is totally the kind of person who talks about Bachelard. But she has people in her life she can do that with. She doesn't have to get everything she needs from her husband and that kind of talk is a really minor thing (for her) compared to all the other things she gets out of the relationship.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  4. #124

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    MacMadame, I believe you hit on the key word, "NICE GUY".
    Which, of course, is what matters.
    (Well, to me )

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    There are some very basic things you need in a relationship -- respect, similar values, and not being abused are right up there -- and if those aren't there, the rest -- intellect, shared interests, etc. -- don't matter one iota.

    In her second marriage, she married someone who, on paper is also match education-wise, but is also not really an intellectual. OTOH, I think education is very important in his family unlike for my dad. So they match there. But they don't have similar backgrounds AT ALL. They come from different countries for starters! Is he smart? I have no idea. He's not dumb, that's for sure. But the relationship isn't about that. They have shared interests and they are compatible.

    But most importantly, he's a NICE GUY. He nurtures my mom and takes care of her. He's not the major bread winner but he doesn't sit at home eating bonbons either. He works really hard making sure the house is nice, not just doing housework, but remodeling it and gardening, and he makes sure all the little and big things get taken care of (taxes, cooking) so she can go out and conquer the bigger world. They take trips all over the world and have a great time together. I don't worry about her in her old age, because she has him.
    I can totally relate to this! My hubby is also the guy who does a lot around the house/yard and was never the breadwinner. I will add to this that he is a very funny person - his sense of humor, impersonations, and quirky way of looking at everyday life make living so much fun! It would be so boring to be discussing serious subjects all the time.

  6. #126

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    I value cleverness above intelligence. I like being around clever, but down-to-earth people. I'm not sure I know what "intellectual wavelength" means either, but I do know I like being around men who are self-deprecating, clever, and have a similar sense of humor to mine. It's fun seeing the world through someone else's eyes when that person is clever and funny I like my women friends exactly that same way, and I'm very fortunate that most of them are!

    O-

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by quartz View Post
    MacMadame, I believe you hit on the key word, "NICE GUY".
    Which, of course, is what matters.
    (Well, to me )
    I've been around enough guys who lament they don't have a girlfriend even though they're a "NICE GUY" that I don't use the term anymore. (In the context they use, "nice" means a pushover who's also a secret douchebag since they believe they deserve a hot girlfriend because they are "nice." )

    I use the term "kind." And yes, having a partner who's kind I think is the most important thing. Because even though Alf has no interest in the social or pop culture issues I do (and they are a large part of my identity), he's very mindful of my needs. Yesterday he offered to drive me to work and class because I'd gotten 3 hours of sleep the night before trying to finish a project.

    I have friends to talk social issues and pop culture with.

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    I've been around enough guys who lament they don't have a girlfriend even though they're a "NICE GUY" that I don't use the term anymore. (In the context they use, "nice" means a pushover who's also a secret douchebag since they believe they deserve a hot girlfriend because they are "nice." )

    I use the term "kind." And yes, having a partner who's kind I think is the most important thing. Because even though Alf has no interest in the social or pop culture issues I do (and they are a large part of my identity), he's very mindful of my needs. Yesterday he offered to drive me to work and class because I'd gotten 3 hours of sleep the night before trying to finish a project.

    I have friends to talk social issues and pop culture with.
    This times 100 million. Kind is an underrated trait.
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  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    But again, I am not sure that I understand what is meant by "intellectual wavelength."
    I am not sure that I do either. I suspect some people would say my aunt and her husband are - they both have PhD's in similar areas. They work in a university setting. I don't know what they talk about or even what their relationship is like, although they have been married for 50 years so on some level it works.

    We've been married for 40 years. We both have Master's degrees although in very different fields. We have different hobbies/interests. We do have similar values and political beliefs. Some of our best discussions have been when walking - maybe on silly topics, maybe on serious topics, most of which do not involve what level of education we have. The middle years of our marriage our conversation were mainly about children, tasks to do, money or lack thereof, and other similar topics. Now we talk about retirement, hobbies, grandchildren, politics, aging parents - but sometimes it is as silly as a stupid commercial.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy View Post
    This times 100 million. Kind is an underrated trait.
    I don't think it's underrated as it is difficult to ascertain on a first date. Or even a month of dating. I didn't get to see his kindness in full swing until we were dating about a year and I got really sick. (It doesn't show really, until the going gets rough!)

    Lots of people just want to know right away if this person is for them. Hence the fixation on having similar hobbies and the like. It's a benchmark to say, "Yes, this person is for me!" when there's a lot of deeper things that have yet to be considered. But I think there are early signs to look for, if you're observant. This is why it's always a good idea to treat service staff well on a first date.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    But, no, they don't talk about Bachelard either. Don't get me wrong, my mom is totally the kind of person who talks about Bachelard. But she has people in her life she can do that with. She doesn't have to get everything she needs from her husband and that kind of talk is a really minor thing (for her) compared to all the other things she gets out of the relationship.
    Many years ago I read something in a book? An article? Something. Anyway, I read an anecdotal account of a hard-driving Young Turk who was highly regarded in the corporate world, a real up-and-comer. His wife was considered a handicap for him--she was, essentially, a hippie, an SAHM who was a real earth-mother type, with neither a college degree nor the corporate wife personality. People would sometimes comment on how odd their marriage was, but he said that it was relaxing to come home and talk about something completely different from work with someone who didn't expect him to be a Boy Wonder and who reminded him that the world was not his office.

    I thought of that when I read the Princeton mom's comments because I think she would consider that an example of a man who wasn't bothered by marrying his intellectual inferior and proof that men don't mind marrying dumber women. But that makes as much sense to me as my colleague marrying someone with whom she could discuss Bachelard over dinner--more, because I have a lot of empathy for his point of view. I find liberal arts people stimulating for a while and exhausting after a while .

    Maybe all of these people ARE on the same intellectual wavelengths?
    Trolling dates all the way back to 397 B.C. - People began following Plato around and would make fart noises after everything he said.

  12. #132

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    Anita18, how about nice, AND kind. That's the man I have and that is all I need. Sounds like that is what you have too.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    I don't think it's underrated as it is difficult to ascertain on a first date. Or even a month of dating. I didn't get to see his kindness in full swing until we were dating about a year and I got really sick. (It doesn't show really, until the going gets rough!)
    I've met people who are the opposite of that... I thought they are kind, but after a while I realize that I mistook their other qualities for kindness .

    JME, anybody who says they are nice, usually are not. The people who are really nice/kind are usually not aware that they are. They think they are just doing what everybody else would do in that particular situation.

    Ps: I'm using nice and kind interchangeably here, but I guess this lady would disagree...

    Pss: How do you measure someone's cleverness/intelligence? I have been feeling pretty dumb lately

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAngel View Post
    I've met people who are the opposite of that... I thought they are kind, but after a while I realize that I mistook their other qualities for kindness .

    JME, anybody who says they are nice, usually are not. The people who are really nice/kind are usually not aware that they are. They think they are just doing what everybody else would do in that particular situation.

    Ps: I'm using nice and kind interchangeably here, but I guess this lady would disagree...

    Pss: How do you measure someone's cleverness/intelligence? I have been feeling pretty dumb lately
    Wait...how can you mistake something else for kindness? You're going to have to explain.

    Yeah, "nice" and "kind" supposedly are synonyms, but there's too much baggage associated with being "nice" that I don't use it often anymore. Unless I really do want to describe someone as a pushover looking for approval from others. So I suppose I agree with the HuffPo author there.

    But someone can be genuinely kind AND nice at the same time. "Nice" usually also involves being obviously taken advantage of, and someone can be so naturally kind that this starts to happen...A nice person usually has no idea when to say no, even if it starts to impede on their own happiness and helps no one....

  15. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anita18 View Post
    "Nice" usually also involves being obviously taken advantage of, and someone can be so naturally kind that this starts to happen...A nice person usually has no idea when to say no, even if it starts to impede on their own happiness and helps no one....
    The evolution of language is certainly strange -- I never knew that if someone was "nice" it meant that others took advantage of them. That used to be called "inablity to say no" or "being a doormat" or an extreme "people pleaser." I never realized that the word "nice" could have such a negative connotation.

    ETA: Of course, to my grandmother, "nice" usually meant polite and well-mannered -- "what a nice young man he is" she would say.
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  16. #136

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    Nope, never knew that nice meant being taken advantage of either.....well glad to be informed of that. I have a whole lot of nice people in my life that will be very interested to hear that as well

  17. #137
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    It depends on the context. I guess I have heard so many people describe themselves as "nice guys (and why can't I get a girlfriend)" that it has ruined the word for me.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post

    I thought of that when I read the Princeton mom's comments because I think she would consider that an example of a man who wasn't bothered by marrying his intellectual inferior and proof that men don't mind marrying dumber women. But that makes as much sense to me as my colleague marrying someone with whom she could discuss Bachelard over dinner--more, because I have a lot of empathy for his point of view. I find liberal arts people stimulating for a while and exhausting after a while .
    I was going to say...despite being the liberal arts person (I'm the family underachiever, I just have a BA in archaeology and an MA in museum studies) I can find liberal-arts kind of conversation draining (like I might have to end the conversation painfully if it spent much time on French philosophers.) But sit there nitpicking the physics of a solar system in Doctor Who (leading to the conclusion "Another offscreen holocaust"), I'm good with that. I tend to have more...tolerance for science and mechanical intellectual, rather than liberal arts perspective. Though I can be a history geek of the first order. I tend to prefer conversations that are somewhat more random than deep philosophizing. I'd sooner sit there with a vet explaining to me how to correct a breech birth in a cow than have some guy want to discuss the spiritual meanings of Emerson's poetry. (At which point I'd derail on purpose with my musings on how Emerson must have really felt about being the sugar daddy of Concord...Just because I do not enjoy something does not mean I don't know it.)

    Anita18, I know what you mean about "nice". Though usually with "nice guy" I don't think doormat, I think passive-aggressive jerk. I'll take kind and civil over aggressively nice any day. Civil is easier to spot first than kind. And I think DAngel is right, people who are nice generally don't think they're nice.

  19. #139
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    Glad I am not the only liberal arts major that can only take so much deep intellectual humanities oriented discussion without wanting to fall into a coma. That stuff exhausts me after awhile. I dated a few guys who loved that. On paper, those were probably great matches. In reality, not so much. I married a guy with an associate's degree in agri-business who loves comedy movies and cars. I nearly have a master's in history and had three majors as an undergrad. The difference doesn't matter. There are different kinds of intelligence and my husband has many other intelligences even if they are not really academic.

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    When you major in something, and work in something, frequently it's the last thing you want to talk about when you get home.

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