View Poll Results: Who is the Best Ladies European Champion?

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  • Sonja Henie - Norway

    35 17.16%
  • Cecilia Colledge - Great Britan

    5 2.45%
  • Barbara Ann Scott - Canada

    4 1.96%
  • Sjoukje Dijkstra - The Netherlands

    1 0.49%
  • Beatrix Schuba - Austria

    2 0.98%
  • Anett Potzsch - East Germany

    0 0%
  • Katarina Witt - East Germany

    41 20.10%
  • Surya Bonaly - France

    5 2.45%
  • Irina Slutskaya - Russia

    33 16.18%
  • Maria Butyrskaya - Russia

    5 2.45%
  • Carolina Kostner - Italy

    65 31.86%
  • Other

    8 3.92%
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  1. #1

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    Best Ladies European Champion

    I'm sure we already had a poll like this before, but now that the 2013-2014 season is at a close, I want to see which skater most people here in the Trash Can feel is the best Ladies European Champion. Use whatever criteria you want to define "best."

    Not that I'm trying to convince people of anything, but I really love this performance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qSCT15IRpU

    It's simply and I think it showcases some of her best qualities. Uncle Dick certainly loved it.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 05-28-2014 at 06:18 AM.
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  2. #2
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    It was Surya that sparked my interest to stay with figure skating! The previous era ran me off; the egos, judging controversies, & allowing pro to re-enter the amateur ranks! With the whack felt and heard around the world, it was a great period to watch with Urmanov, Yagudin, Plushenko, Goebel, Slutskaya, Lipinksi, Bonaly, Lambiel, and Sasha Cohen!

  3. #3
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    I will go through process of elimination:

    Colledge- in shadow of Henie, out.
    Scott- not even a European, out.
    Dijkstra- vile skater, out.
    Schuba- not a great free skater, out.
    Potzsch- no competition in Europe for her at the time, out.
    Bonaly- was best in Europe at a time U.S and Asia mostly ruled, out.
    Butyrskaya- in shadow of Slutskaya, out.

    So that leaves Henie, Slutskaya, and Kostner. Since Henie's legacy in Olympics and worlds far trumps her Europeans legacy, and since Slutskaya actually had some competition at Europeans with Butyrskaya, Bonaly, and a few others unlike Kostner who only had Lepisto and Korpi most of her career, I picked Slutskaya.

  4. #4
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    Why isn't "Michelle Kwan" an option?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Why isn't "Michelle Kwan" an option?
    Americans were disallowed years ago! Red Button and Carole Heiss probably one of the last foreigners from North America to perform and win Europeans; hence the creation of Four Continents Figure Skating Championships for non-Euros in the ISU!
    Last edited by Fiero425; 05-28-2014 at 07:03 AM. Reason: addition

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    Why isn't "Michelle Kwan" an option?
    Just thought it'd be nice to have a poll without Michelle Kwan, Yuna Kim, and Mao Asada being involved.
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  7. #7
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    Barbara Ann Scott (1947, 1948) and Dick Button (1948) were the last Europeans (or "Europeans," since Israel competes at Euros) to compete at European Championships.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  8. #8
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    If it was a poll for the favourite skater, I would choose Butyrskaya. But since I should choose the best one, I think it should one of Henie, Witt, Slutskaya or Kostner. I'm choosing Slutskaya.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by coraczek View Post
    ... I'm choosing Slutskaya.
    Her "Shindler's List" exhibition quite memorable!
    Last edited by Fiero425; 05-28-2014 at 05:17 PM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Just thought it'd be nice to have a poll without Michelle Kwan, Yuna Kim, and Mao Asada being involved.
    manipulation! skandal!

  11. #11

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    I picked Slutskaya although Witt may have a case too. They belonged to different eras, and Henie and Schuba belonged to an era that was so different, we cannot even compare them with the skaters of the 1980's and later.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    I will go through process of elimination:

    Colledge- in shadow of Henie, out.
    Scott- not even a European, out.
    Dijkstra- vile skater, out.
    Schuba- not a great free skater, out.
    Potzsch- no competition in Europe for her at the time, out.
    Bonaly- was best in Europe at a time U.S and Asia mostly ruled, out.
    Butyrskaya- in shadow of Slutskaya, out.

    So that leaves Henie, Slutskaya, and Kostner. Since Henie's legacy in Olympics and worlds far trumps her Europeans legacy, and since Slutskaya actually had some competition at Europeans with Butyrskaya, Bonaly, and a few others unlike Kostner who only had Lepisto and Korpi most of her career, I picked Slutskaya.
    Nobody today would do a darn thing like Henie, but every singles skater does something like Colledge.

  13. #13
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    I picked Kostner since she competed in a way deeper era than Slutskaya. Kostner had Kim, Asada, Ando, Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, Rochette, Arakawa, and Slutskaya and Kwan at the tail end of their careers too. Slutskaya had Kwan as her only real competition most of her career and still could only manage 2 world titles and no Olympic gold. Kostner in her prime with a field like that would probably have won more than Irina.

    Aside from that though Kostner is such a beautiful and complete skater once she reached full maturity. Irina is just jump, jump, jump, no style or grace whatsoever, which is why when even one of her jumps failed her she could never win. Despite her lack of artistry Irina does have very good basic skating, but Kostner has better basic skating, and perhaps the best ever in that area.

  14. #14

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    I pick Witt. I excluded everyone before 1960, because I wouldn't even know how to roll them into the comparison. Of everyone else, Witt is the only household name and the one with the most charms (including OGMs), on and off the ice.
    What would Jenny do?

  15. #15
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    Witt only had Ivanova as competition at Europeans. Her global competition was deep in 87 and 88, but never before that.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by frillit View Post
    I picked Kostner since she competed in a way deeper era than Slutskaya. Kostner had Kim, Asada, Ando, Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, Rochette, Arakawa, and Slutskaya and Kwan at the tail end of their careers too. Slutskaya had Kwan as her only real competition most of her career and still could only manage 2 world titles and no Olympic gold. Kostner in her prime with a field like that would probably have won more than Irina.

    Aside from that though Kostner is such a beautiful and complete skater once she reached full maturity. Irina is just jump, jump, jump, no style or grace whatsoever, which is why when even one of her jumps failed her she could never win. Despite her lack of artistry Irina does have very good basic skating, but Kostner has better basic skating, and perhaps the best ever in that area.
    Out of the skaters you mentioned, only Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, and Slutskaya competed against Kostner at Europeans, for the most obvious reason. Aren't we talking about the best European champion here? Sot and Lip were at the beginning of their young careers and Kostner was a fully matured skater. Yet, she lost to Lipnitskaya at the Euros (I can't remember whether she placed ahead of Sot or not). I don't think she beat Slutskaya at a Europeans either. She is a beautiful artist, but I wouldn't call her the greatest European champion. I would rather give that honor to ladies that won that title 5-6 times, like Witt and Slutskaya. I will have a tough time placing Bonaly ahead of Kostner though, despite Surya's well deserved multiple European titles.

  17. #17

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    You can consider other competitions and their overall records as well if you want. Basically you define best European champion however you want.

    Btw, Kostner is a 5-time European Champion.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Out of the skaters you mentioned, only Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, and Slutskaya competed against Kostner at Europeans, for the most obvious reason. Aren't we talking about the best European champion here? Sot and Lip were at the beginning of their young careers and Kostner was a fully matured skater. Yet, she lost to Lipnitskaya at the Euros (I can't remember whether she placed ahead of Sot or not). I don't think she beat Slutskaya at a Europeans either. She is a beautiful artist, but I wouldn't call her the greatest European champion. I would rather give that honor to ladies that won that title 5-6 times, like Witt and Slutskaya. I will have a tough time placing Bonaly ahead of Kostner though, despite Surya's well deserved multiple European titles.
    I interpreted it to mean as overall skaters and their overall careers, not just Europeans. Kostner wasnt in her prime when she met Slutskaya at Europeans. Kostner did beat the Russian girls to win Europeans last year and they skated very well there. This year the politics and corruption in scores in favor of the Russian girls, culminating in Sotnikova's farcial Olympic win, are too much to take the results seriously anywhere involving them.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Out of the skaters you mentioned, only Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, and Slutskaya competed against Kostner at Europeans, for the most obvious reason. Aren't we talking about the best European champion here? Sot and Lip were at the beginning of their young careers and Kostner was a fully matured skater. Yet, she lost to Lipnitskaya at the Euros (I can't remember whether she placed ahead of Sot or not). I don't think she beat Slutskaya at a Europeans either. She is a beautiful artist, but I wouldn't call her the greatest European champion. I would rather give that honor to ladies that won that title 5-6 times, like Witt and Slutskaya. I will have a tough time placing Bonaly ahead of Kostner though, despite Surya's well deserved multiple European titles.
    It was a weak era in the early 90's unfortunately with only Oksana doing something during that period; winning Worlds in '93 before OG in Lillehammer in '94! Surya's last win in '95 at Europeans had no one close to touching her with 3/3's and other combos other women could only dream of! That sort of jumping is now commonplace and about time too!

  20. #20
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    Surya actually had decent competition in 93-95. She had to beat Baiul to win 93 and 94 Europeans, no easy feat. She also faced Markova and Butyrskaya in 94-95 who by then were very strong. I would never pick her just because she wasnt an appealing skater to a skating purist, despite her deserved success.

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