View Poll Results: Zhangs or Volosozhar & Trankov, better career so far

Voters
60. You may not vote on this poll
  • Voloszhar & Trankov

    47 78.33%
  • Zhangs

    13 21.67%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    65
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Better career- Zhangs or Voloszhar & Trankov

    Now that Voloszhar & Trankov have the World title that the Zhangs never won who has had the better career. I would still say the Zhangs since they have Olympic Gold and 1 more World medal and 6 more grand prix golds.

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,325
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    47516
    The Zhangs never won the Olympic gold or even a world title.

    Is this another April Fool thread?

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    65
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    The Zhangs never won the Olympic gold or even a world title.

    Is this another April Fool thread?
    Well Tatiana & Max have only 1 World title, so not like they have alot. The Zhangs were robbed of the 2008 and maybe 2006 World titles so they should have atleast as many anyway. Tatiana & Max dont have an Olympic medal and the Zhangs have a high one- the silver. Add that to Zhangs having 6 more grand prix wins, and it becomes very close.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Riga, Latvia
    Posts
    1,224
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ohashibiles View Post
    Well Tatiana & Max have only 1 World title, so not like they have alot. The Zhangs were robbed of the 2008 and maybe 2006 World titles so they should have atleast as many anyway. Tatiana & Max dont have an Olympic medal and the Zhangs have a high one- the silver. Add that to Zhangs having 6 more grand prix wins, and it becomes very close.
    Surely, an April's Fool thread.

  5. #5
    Loving on babies!
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Twin heaven!
    Posts
    11,655
    vCash
    1570
    Rep Power
    17757
    Wow, the Zhangs have 6 more GP wins in the 80 years they had been together....as opposed to V/T's 2 seasons on the GP. Yep, that seems to be a clincher.
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    65
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    Wow, the Zhangs have 6 more GP wins in the 80 years they had been together....as opposed to V/T's 2 seasons on the GP. Yep, that seems to be a clincher.
    Well do you take away from Kwans achievements compared to Lipinski since she competed 8 times as long. By that logic Tara is the better of the two since if she competed as long she would have done more. I am going by actual results and achievements, not what ifs if so and so had competed longer, been younger, been older, paired sooner, so on. Going just by achievements the two pairs are close, as each have edges on the other. Well Max and Tatiana have only one edge, the World title.

  7. #7
    YEAH!
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Worshipping Grebenkina...
    Posts
    13,686
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    6328
    I don't like the Zhangs, but I've always maintained that an Olympic medal trumps a World title. This thread is premature, though, because V&T are almost certain to get a medal in Sochi... but on the off chance that something crazy happens and they don't.... it'll be the Zhangs.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    65
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    In terms of ability too I go with the Zhangs since they were technically stronger and artistically both are so so, so it comes down to the more technical team and that is the Zhangs. Comparing their technical elements:

    Jumps- Zhangs more consistent and better unision.
    Throws- Zhangs bigger and more consistent.
    Twist- Zhangs bigger and better catch.
    Lifts- Not sure, maybe Russians by a bit.
    Spins- Zhangs, especialy the side by side spins.
    Footwork- similar.
    Death spirals- similar.

    So the Zhangs take the edge on technical which is the strength of both teams, the Russians best moves are beaten by the Chinese, and artistic wise they are similar so no difference there.

  9. #9
    Blergh
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,345
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    17507
    Wouldn't it be fairer to compare them after V/T have finished their eligible careers? The nature of your question is in the past tense, "who has had" and you can't answer it until V/T are done.

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    22
    Posts
    12,991
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    V&T easily. Not only do they have a World title which beats anything the Zhangs achieved (including the Olympic silver) but they have a Grand Prix final title which is also a bigger title than any the Zhangs ever managed, and their winning Europeans twice is far more impressive than the Zhangs winning Four Continents against generally much poorer competition only twice.

  11. #11
    Loving on babies!
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Twin heaven!
    Posts
    11,655
    vCash
    1570
    Rep Power
    17757
    Quote Originally Posted by ohashibiles View Post
    Well do you take away from Kwans achievements compared to Lipinski since she competed 8 times as long. By that logic Tara is the better of the two since if she competed as long she would have done more. I am going by actual results and achievements, not what ifs if so and so had competed longer, been younger, been older, paired sooner, so on. Going just by achievements the two pairs are close, as each have edges on the other. Well Max and Tatiana have only one edge, the World title.
    OK, so just going by achievements, let's see, how many world medals, GP medals, Olympic medals did the Zhangs have after competing together for only three seasons, and one of those seasons not being eligible for the GP at all? You don't want to make comparisons based on longevity, then make it on the same playing field.

    Quote Originally Posted by ohashibiles View Post
    In terms of ability too I go with the Zhangs since they were technically stronger and artistically both are so so, so it comes down to the more technical team and that is the Zhangs. Comparing their technical elements:

    Jumps- Zhangs more consistent and better unision.
    Throws- Zhangs bigger and more consistent.
    Twist- Zhangs bigger and better catch.
    Lifts- Not sure, maybe Russians by a bit.
    Spins- Zhangs, especialy the side by side spins.
    Footwork- similar.
    Death spirals- similar.

    So the Zhangs take the edge on technical which is the strength of both teams, the Russians best moves are beaten by the Chinese, and artistic wise they are similar so no difference there.
    And all of this is simply in your opinion. Try showing comparisons of competition protocols to back you up on all of this. I'm pretty sure that some of your assertions as to who is better might change when actually looking at points and GOE awarded by the judges.
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Thankfukky watching skating
    Posts
    13,154
    vCash
    317
    Rep Power
    18265
    Quote Originally Posted by ohashibiles View Post
    Well Tatiana & Max have only 1 World title, so not like they have alot. The Zhangs were robbed of the 2008 and maybe 2006 World titles so they should have atleast as many anyway. Tatiana & Max dont have an Olympic medal and the Zhangs have a high one- the silver. Add that to Zhangs having 6 more grand prix wins, and it becomes very close.
    O M G. I don't know if I've ever seen the words "robbed" & the "Zhangs" in the same sentence unless the people being robbed where those behind the Zhangs. I've always thought that they were horrible skaters with a couple of big tricks. He would throw her like he was heaving a shot putt with no finesse whatsoever. And giving the edge on spins to them over V/T is insane. Spins were their worst element. I thought she Zhang improved a lot over the years but I'm not sure he Zhang ever did. No brain bleach on earth will ever erase the sight of them in their jungle costumes.

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Partying with Oda
    Posts
    4,140
    vCash
    699
    Rep Power
    17995
    Zhangs.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    12,257
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ohashibiles View Post
    Well Tatiana & Max have only 1 World title, so not like they have alot. The Zhangs were robbed of the 2008 and maybe 2006 World titles so they should have atleast as many anyway. Tatiana & Max dont have an Olympic medal and the Zhangs have a high one- the silver. Add that to Zhangs having 6 more grand prix wins, and it becomes very close.
    Quote Originally Posted by ohashibiles View Post
    Well do you take away from Kwans achievements compared to Lipinski since she competed 8 times as long. By that logic Tara is the better of the two since if she competed as long she would have done more. I am going by actual results and achievements, not what ifs if so and so had competed longer, been younger, been older, paired sooner, so on. Going just by achievements the two pairs are close, as each have edges on the other. Well Max and Tatiana have only one edge, the World title.
    Contradiction

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    3,468
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1553
    Thank God April 1st is over!!!!!

    What a ridiculous thread.

    One team (not even together anymore) skated since they were teens and had a career most skaters could only dream about. They never won World or Olympic gold, but most pairs teams haven't and they also have several silvers at the Olympics and Worlds combined.

    V/T had wonderful careers before they teamed up and continue to do so. They could win 2 Olympic medals (something the Zhangs and even S/Z couldn't do because the team gold wasn't around) but they aren't really done. I doubt they will retire in 2014 with no intention of coming back and as far as technique is concerned V/T are better on every level although I think the Zhangs did do the 2A+3T.

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,325
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    47516
    Quote Originally Posted by ohashibiles View Post
    Well Tatiana & Max have only 1 World title, so not like they have alot. The Zhangs were robbed of the 2008 and maybe 2006 World titles so they should have atleast as many anyway. Tatiana & Max dont have an Olympic medal and the Zhangs have a high one- the silver. Add that to Zhangs having 6 more grand prix wins, and it becomes very close.
    How were they robbed of a world title in 2006? They skated horribly in the LP and were lucky to get the silver, which was mainly due to their very high SP score. The Zhangs were poor artistically and technically all they had were a couple of big tricks. They are not even in the same class as V&T. Their Olympic silver was a gift from the judges, and V&T have not even competed at the Olympics yet. It's a silly poll.

  17. #17
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    95
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    The Zhangs are one of the most overrated teams ever. They did not deserve any of their medals except maybe the 2009 World silver. Even taking their medals at face value for what they are though V&T are the better career. World Champions, 2 time European Champions, Grand Prix final Champions, silver or higher in all Worlds they participated in, winners of every grand prix event they have been in. The Zhangs, no World titles, only won Four Continents 2 times vs say the 5 Pang & Tong won in generally easy and weak fields, no Grand Prix final title, missing podium at Worlds over half the years they were in it.

    As for the Olympic Gold, V&T have a gold medal from the Sochi Olympics so they win even there.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    95
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    How were they robbed of a world title in 2006? They skated horribly in the LP and were lucky to get the silver, which was mainly due to their very high SP score. The Zhangs were poor artistically and technically all they had were a couple of big tricks. They are not even in the same class as V&T. Their Olympic silver was a gift from the judges, and V&T have not even competed at the Olympics yet. It's a silly poll.
    Their Olympic Silver in Turino was one of the worst decisions I have ever seen in the sport. First off they should have been disqualified for the long delay. Secondly looking at the performance yes they had a great triple twist and great jumps, which the other two Chinese pairs both messed up (the jumps). However they botched both throws, their totally bombed quad throw try probably netted about 1 point, then with all the points it should have lost in PCS it would probably be a negative to 0 overall impact, and they stepped out of their 2nd throw and the judges correctly gave it -2 across the board. Their overhead lifts were shaky and weak, likely as a result of the accident, and yet were oddly scored high by the judges. Their other elements were never anything to write home about. Then on PCS, well they are rather weak at the best of times, but that enormous interuption of the program, and the very disruptive fall as it was, and they were even slower than usual and visibly tenative coming back (understandable) and their PCS were only 3 points behind Shen & Zhou and only 1 point behind Pang & Tong. Quite the crock. Even lowering their PCS by 3 or 4 points would put them out of the medals, and it is quite obviously they should have been atleast that much lower.

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    4,336
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2649
    I voted for V&T. I agree that the Zhangs have more titles, but they were never realistically considered the best Pair of any time period. They were always second/third/fourth fiddle to at least Shen/Zhao and also S/P, B/S, P/T at different points of their career. You can argue V&T are the very best pair currently (even if you think S/S are better, still you can recognize that V/T are worthy of consideration). I don't think there was any period you can make that argument for the Zhangs, which is why they have neither WGM or OGM.

    I also agree that their Oly Silver Medal, by far their most prestigious achievement, should have gone to someone else.

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    95
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    S/S are not even arguably better than V/T right now. Only an idiot would attempt to make that argument. Last year they were super close, with S/S edging ahead on the judges cards atleast (I thought that was wrong both times but very close), but V/T have dominated this year, deservedly beating S/S at Europeans, and then being on another planet from them at Worlds, and S/S also did very poorly in losing one of the other events they werent facing V/T too. Only a German would try and argue S/S are best currently.

    As for Z/Z yes they were never the best. They were favored to win the 2006 Worlds and were considered the best Chinese team over S/Z and P/T that year despite P/T winning Worlds and S/Z's career legacy, but Totmianina & Marinin were clearly the best team that year and easily beat the Zhangs at all events, so even winning Worlds with T/M no there wouldnt have really made them the best.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •