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  1. #41

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    I am fine with the 2013 world results. It's not like there atrocious like the 2010 Olympics. Basically I'm neutral on 2013. it have been nice If ten won? Sure but Chan did a lot of great things like his sp. Lysaceks win is awful and will always be awful. The big problem is that quads were so undervalued and jumps so undervalued that maybe while plushenko was doing a quad triple and lysacek did no quads - maybe adding a double would have allowed plushenko to win. That's the problem. The problem plushenko didn't do double but that the winner didn't even attempt a quad. Plushenko mistake was not doing a double but doing a quad at all. I think it's vey important to point out why quads are back and were done by 17 or 18 men in the free skate in London if not more. Because it can be done and should be tried and it's a part of men's skating like 3a is! And it's wrong to attack anyone who brings up what so many men are capable of as part of a program as only wanting figure jumping or a 10 second jump contest which is what Lysacek and Carroll were all about!

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    I am fine with the 2013 world results. It's not like there atrocious like the 2010 Olympics. Basically I'm neutral on 2013. it have been nice If ten won? Sure but Chan did a lot of great things like his sp. Lysaceks win is awful and will always be awful. The big problem is that quads were so undervalued and jumps so undervalued that maybe while plushenko was doing a quad triple and lysacek did no quads - maybe adding a double would have allowed plushenko to win. That's the problem. The problem plushenko didn't do double but that the winner didn't even attempt a quad. Plushenko mistake was not doing a double but doing a quad at all. I think it's vey important to point out why quads are back and were done by 17 or 18 men in the free skate in London if not more. Because it can be done and should be tried and it's a part of men's skating like 3a is! And it's wrong to attack anyone who brings up what so many men are capable of as part of a program as only wanting figure jumping or a 10 second jump contest which is what Lysacek and Carroll were all about!
    Yes quads are back. However, the results this season show that a skater still has to have more than a quad jump to win. How many times did we see skaters land beautiful quads, but later falter on other triple jumps or spins. After the Olympics, Lysacek & Carroll were right in stating that there is more to a figure skating program than ONE jump. There are many required elements in a FS & SP. Last time I check, there is no requirement that a skater attempt a quad.

  3. #43
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    I think the issue is that Carroll and Lysaceck weren't really attacking anyone. They were spinning their strategy in the most positive way possible. Yes, Carroll may have been aggressive in pointing out Plushenko's weaknesses in transitions and parts of PCS, but he did repeat what Plushenko himself had said.

    You may really disagree with him, but he's not going around Plushenko boards and articles spewing anti-Plushenko propaganda.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    Yes quads are back. However, the results this season show that a skater still has to have more than a quad jump to win. How many times did we see skaters land beautiful quads, but later falter on other triple jumps or spins. After the Olympics, Lysacek & Carroll were right in stating that there is more to a figure skating program than ONE jump. There are many required elements in a FS & SP. Last time I check, there is no requirement that a skater attempt a quad.
    Yeah but now no one can say or is saying "I am doing all the required elements so don't have to do the quad!" they are trying to out everything together including a quad. Not nonsense like they can be complete skaters and Do everything and deserve wins without quads. You almosT have to get to 20th place in the fs in London before you by a skater who didn't try a quad. It's because the scoring system with the anti lysacek Carroll reVisions makes it impossible!

    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I think the issue is that Carroll and Lysaceck weren't really attacking anyone. They were spinning their strategy in the most positive way possible. Yes, Carroll may have been aggressive in pointing out Plushenko's weaknesses in transitions and parts of PCS, but he did repeat what Plushenko himself had said.

    You may really disagree with him, but he's not going around Plushenko boards and articles spewing anti-Plushenko propaganda.
    They were attacking people. Saying that plushenko wanted to abolish skating and replace it with figure jumping or a jump contest and therefore saw the whole thing as illegitimate. Plushenko never said he wanted to have figure jumping or a ten second competition with no music where you do one jump and then leave the ice. There has never been any indication at all that discussing past wins was a problem here!! And that all treads about people must Be lovefests!

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Yeah but now no one can say or is saying "I am doing all the required elements so don't have to do the quad!" they are trying to out everything together including a quad. Not nonsense like they can be complete skaters and Do everything and deserve wins without quads. You almosT have to get to 20th place in the fs in London before you by a skater who didn't try a quad.
    So where are all the ladies doing 3ax these days? You have to go all the way back to 1992 Olys to see Midori Ito and Tonya Harding attempting them. The only skater who does them now is Mao. Should all the other ladies be discredited because of this?
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post

    Yeah but now no one can say or is saying "I am doing all the required elements so don't have to do the quad!" they are trying to out everything together including a quad. Not nonsense like they can be complete skaters and Do everything and deserve wins without quads. You almosT have to get to 20th place in the fs in London before you by a skater who didn't try a quad. It's because the scoring system with the anti lysacek Carroll reVisions makes it impossible!

    They were attacking people. Saying that plushenko wanted to abolish skating and replace it with figure jumping or a jump contest and therefore saw the whole thing as illegitimate. Plushenko never said he wanted to have figure jumping or a ten second competition with no music where you do one jump and then leave the ice. There has never been any indication at all that discussing past wins was a problem here!! And that all treads about people must Be lovefests!
    Wrong. Lysacek did not attack anyone. Saying the truth that the figure skating competition was not only about one jump element is not an attack. In fact, Lysacek was given praise for the sportsmanship that he showed in addressing the post Olympic quad debate.

    Your anger is misplaced. It was the ISU that determined point values and required elements. All Lysacek did was: (1) structure his programs, under the point system that existed, in order to maximize his scoring potential; and (2) execute his programs in competition. The judges then scored his programs according to the ISU criteria for the SP & FS. Since the ISU changed the point system after Vancouver, you should be rejoicing instead of spewing your venom about Lysacek all over the Internet.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    So where are all the ladies doing 3ax these days? You have to go all the way back to 1992 Olys to see Midori Ito and Tonya Harding attempting them. The only skater who does them now is Mao. Should all the other ladies be discredited because of this?
    No because unlike with quads you do not have three Olympics in a row and 10 worlds in a row and multi medalists in lots of events doing 3a in ladies! so it's not a part of winning as much.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkateFan66 View Post
    Wrong. Lysacek did not attack anyone. Saying the truth that the figure skating competition was not only about one jump element is not an attack. In fact, Lysacek was given praise for the sportsmanship that he showed in addressing the post Olympic quad debate.

    Your anger is misplaced. It was the ISU that determined point values and required elements. All Lysacek did was: (1) structure his programs, under the point system that existed, in order to maximize his scoring potential; and (2) execute his programs in competition. The judges then scored his programs according to the ISU criteria for the SP & FS. Since the ISU changed the point system after Vancouver, you should be rejoicing instead of spewing your venom about Lysacek all over the Internet.
    It was an attack to say plushenko wanted to abolish figure skating and replace t with figure jumping or a ten second jump contest. Anyone who said anything against the win was attacked as wanting to abolish the sport basically.

    1 and 2 caused the changes because seeing a streak of 3 Olympics in a row being won with quads ending was not good. The whole all triples in a 3/5 layout for goe bonus was not right. The system rewarded it wrongly. I am rejoicing but it makes no sense to forget why all these quads are being done. The system was changed because garbage regression won the Olympics.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by DBZ View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD8NS_p7DgY

    Jenny and Dave posted a teaser of their interview with Frank, and they're asking him some pretty pointed questions about Chanflation, Tiffany Chin's mom and Chris Bowman's drug addiction.

    Heavy stuff. I'm so interested to hear his answers. Frank has always kept things relatively close to the vest, so I wonder how candid he'll be in this interview.

    Interview goes up on April 14th!
    Thanks! I am looking forward to hearing what Frank has to say. The man is a wealth of knowledge.

  9. #49
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    Love that Dave is wearing a tie here (out of respect for Frank, maybe?), and looking like a Wall St stockbroker.

  10. #50

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    So Casey, you're fine with the 2013 Worlds results, but the 2010 Olympics were horrible. So it's perfectly fine for Chan to win because he landed two quads, but you're going to conveniently forget he was a human Zamboni at other times in the program. Yet it's a travesty for Lysacek to win because he didn't do a quad. GMAFB

    And there was nothing wrong with Plushenko's jumps in Vancouver? WTH, the landings of those jumps were so wonky it's not even funny.

    Jumps are not the be all and end all of skating. Guess what, men's skating existed long before the first quad was landed 25 years ago. And there are still MANY beautiful programs performed today without a quad.
    'Life's hard. It's even harder when you're stupid.'--John Wayne

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChelleC View Post
    So Casey, you're fine with the 2013 Worlds results, but the 2010 Olympics were horrible. So it's perfectly fine for Chan to win because he landed two quads, but you're going to conveniently forget he was a human Zamboni at other times in the program. Yet it's a travesty for Lysacek to win because he didn't do a quad. GMAFB

    And there was nothing wrong with Plushenko's jumps in Vancouver? WTH, the landings of those jumps were so wonky it's not even funny.

    Jumps are not the be all and end all of skating. Guess what, men's skating existed long before the first quad was landed 25 years ago. And there are still MANY beautiful programs performed today without a quad.
    Chan had a great short program and built up a lead. His SP was perfect! Record setting. Then in the FS he did make a lot of mistakes and rightly lost it but still did a lot of quads and other jumps and level 4 elements. But he rightly lost it. Yes it was a travesty to have Lysacek win gold because he didn't do a quad. The silver medalist did and everything else and Plushenko deserved to have a program that got the most points. It was the Olympics! 3 Olympics in a row had quads done by the winners. It was absurd regression. ANd you call plushenko jump landings wonky but they were all done and really well. ALmost textbook. All of them! There was no step outs, turnouts, two foots, hand downs, underrotations, there was just no real problem with any of the landings of any jumps? It's just what is wonky? Like some consider a leg wrap wonky but if the jump is done it gets all the credit and lots of times good GOE. But all the jumps were done. And he was better than he was in 2006 where he messed up his three jump combo and doubled a jump! He had all level 3 and 4 elements and did all his jumps and just did everything.

    The quad has been around 25 years and worlds was won 10 years in a row with quads and three Olympics in a row. That means I don't want to see a pre quad era performance win in 2010 or later with a skate that won the 1994 Olympics or something. Only by accident would that be acceptable. Like every medalists falls on their quad attempts and there's no quad done. Lots of good performances are done with all triples and that should remain in jrs or off the podium at a seniors event.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    ....quads ....quad..... quads ....quad ..... quads .... quad .... quad ..... quad .....
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  13. #53

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    I quoted a post that had 4 and I had 8 writing much more? So what? That's the topic!

  14. #54
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    Would you have been ok with Lambiel winning the gold medal had he skated as best to his abilities in Vancouver? If yes, you would've been ok with him without a Triple Axel but with a Quad? A triple axel has been the norm for male skaters for a longer time period than the quad.

  15. #55

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    Yeah because a quad is harder than a 3a- worth more points. But I don't think thy would have been likely and not the best. Best would've been 1- plushenko, 2-takahashi 3-lambiel. Plushenko did everything, takahashi tried everything, lambiel did 2 of the hardest jumps plus another in the sp.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    I quoted a post that had 4 and I had 8 writing much more? So what? That's the topic!
    No. The topic of the thread is the interview with Frank Carroll. You were the one who decided to push it into being about Evan's horribleness and Frank's participation in that.
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    No. The topic of the thread is the interview with Frank Carroll. You were the one who decided to push it into being about Evan's horribleness and Frank's participation in that.

    This.^ (Out of reps for you).

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    No. The topic of the thread is the interview with Frank Carroll. You were the one who decided to push it into being about Evan's horribleness and Frank's participation in that.
    Exactly.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  19. #59

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    Lol its all connected. Whats the difference between Carroll and the 2010 Olympics and what he said there? Like it's not going to be a part Of the interview in some way!? I hope it's covered right and all the backlash and controversy that ensued that radically altered the system and what men do to win!

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    How exhausting.

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