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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Here's the video of Rippon's 1st place FS from Gardena Spring Trophy yesterday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCTyBccNC1w
    Thanks for the link!

    That is a beautiful programme, but does not suit to Rippon totally, in my opinion. Beautiful hand moves, very well done! I think that a skater with more speed and power would have been better for this type of music. Now a slow skater is skating to a slow music..., and the end result is not really impressive.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Thanks for the link!

    That is a beautiful programme, but does not suit to Rippon totally, in my opinion. Beautiful hand moves, very well done! I think that a skater with more speed and power would have been better for this type of music. Now a slow skater is skating to a slow music..., and the end result is not really impressive.
    I would like to respectfully disagree with you. Adam looks to be skating faster than he ever! I dont know why people think that a skater has to be on 10 the entire program as just about no skaters are. If a skater is stroking gaining speed, he is NOT doing choreography usually. This program suits his skating perfectly AND adds some demension to him. He looks happy and extremely well trained. The other point is that usually we dont see new programs until October/November. THE DAMN THING IS NEW!!!!

    If i could talk to Adam today I would say:
    " Sir, you are very brave to go to a coach that you know will work on your weaknesses rather than mask them. Your hard work is evident in your jumps, spins, transitions and overall power on the ice. Please keep working hard. The Axel that used to give you a hard time looked eyons better at Nationals and i believe it will be a reliable jump for you going forward. PLEASE dont leave Rafael as he looks like he knows exactly what you need. You cannot make everyone happy ever. You're a very talented and capable skater. The sensitive choreography is well balanced with assertive presence. Great things are to come.Job well done and your hard work is paying off!"

  3. #23
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    ^^ Here, here, arakwafan2006!!!

    Adam's jump technique and power and confidence going into his jumps are clearly much improved. Indeed, it was very apparent at U.S. Nationals that Rafael and Adam have a great vibe and understanding going on. That's marvelous to see. Add the great choreographic mind of Tom Dickson to the mix and that's a winning combination. The point though for Adam is just continuing to improve and to challenge himself, and to work hard and not worry about anything else except that which is within his control. Very true that Adam's focus and hard work is definitely paying off.

    I'd like to thank Jun Y for his link to Klimkin's Afternoon of a Faun. That was the first clear quality clip of it that I've seen. IMHO, the great skaters who have interpreted this music are taking different approaches. Klimkin's approach worked for his style of skating and is wonderful to watch. The whole middle section of Klimkin's program is edgy, interesting and different. Love the camel change camel which moves immediately into the triple jump (salchow?) and the running steps, the triple axel coming unexpectedly, and the Mr. Frick move with the backward lean (Adam has a similar move in his program). Obviously, Adam's program will evolve over the summer and into the new season, so it's kind of early to be judging it too heavily. I have to say, though, it looks really good right now and it'll be fun to see how it evolves. Outside of the angular shapes with his arms and hands, Dickson and Rippon do not appear to be going for edginess. It would be interesting to read an interview with Dickson, Rippon and Arutynyan about their ideas for approaching this program.

    Also, Jun Y, remember that Klimkin and others who have skated to this music were skating with a bit more freedom under different rules/ conditions (Curry's and Sato's programs were more theatrical/ exhibition style), and Lynn's was early 1970s competitive -- plus she was a force of nature and she possessed unique God-given gifts becoming one with music, movement and blades on ice.

    Tom Dickson and Adam are constrained by IJS requirements -- everything beautiful and successful that they achieve with this program will be in spite of IJS, not because of it. Klimkin contributed so much with his iconic and triumphant Faun program, but in a direct comparison skating-wise, I think Adam is a better overall skater.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 04-06-2013 at 04:30 AM.

  4. #24

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    Watched the vid. Like the choreo and Adam seems to skate pretty well here.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  5. #25

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    Klimkin's approach suited his avant-garde bent.

    Adam's interpretation of this material matches his style and sensibility, while meeting the current program requirements.
    I look forward to watching the program develop during the season.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by arakwafan2006 View Post
    I would like to respectfully disagree with you. Adam looks to be skating faster than he ever! I dont know why people think that a skater has to be on 10 the entire program as just about no skaters are. If a skater is stroking gaining speed, he is NOT doing choreography usually. This program suits his skating perfectly AND adds some demension to him. He looks happy and extremely well trained. The other point is that usually we dont see new programs until October/November. THE DAMN THING IS NEW!!!!

    If i could talk to Adam today I would say:
    " Sir, you are very brave to go to a coach that you know will work on your weaknesses rather than mask them. Your hard work is evident in your jumps, spins, transitions and overall power on the ice. Please keep working hard. The Axel that used to give you a hard time looked eyons better at Nationals and i believe it will be a reliable jump for you going forward. PLEASE dont leave Rafael as he looks like he knows exactly what you need. You cannot make everyone happy ever. You're a very talented and capable skater. The sensitive choreography is well balanced with assertive presence. Great things are to come.Job well done and your hard work is paying off!"
    Great post!

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    Klimkin's approach suited his avant-garde bent.

    Adam's interpretation of this material matches his style and sensibility, while meeting the current program requirements.
    I look forward to watching the program develop during the season.
    Yes, ITA -- that's it in a nutshell!

    I think Dickson, Rippon, Arutynyan are bringing out who AdaRipp is on the ice, and I can't wait to see more.

    BTW, still missing the curls, but that's Adam's decision to make.

  8. #28
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    Just to clarify, the mention of "edges" in my post referred to the use of edges of the blades. It's about skating skills. I was not thinking about stylistically or thematically "edgy."

    As for the avant-garde style, obviously Adam is not Klimkin and I don't want to see Adam skate like Klimkin. I just personally prefer Klimkin's artistic vision in this case because it's more my cup of tea. (Blame IJS as needed. It's probably partially true.)

    Frankly I am slightly disappointed by how pretty and accessible the program is. Although Debussy's music is not particularly experimental or challenging, Nijinsky's original choreography is quite so. To reference Nijinsky but remain pretty is a bit disappointing.
    Last edited by Jun Y; 04-06-2013 at 03:20 AM.

  9. #29
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    ^^ Thanks JunY, I appreciate your thoughtful assessments, and I understand what you are saying about your preference for Klimkin's interpretive approach more than not only Adam's current program, but also other skaters' programs to this music (as you mentioned in your initial post). I also got that you were talking about Adam's blade edges (IOW, I realize that your reference to the program being "heavy on edges" has nothing to do with your preference for the edginess of Klimkin's program).

    Hmmm, again your thoughts are interesting and it would be fun to be able to have a conversation in person about how you're viewing this. That's the difficult thing sometimes about conversing in cyberspace -- having a thoughtful conversation about figure skating is simply not that easy as there are so many nuances involved and varying perspectives and preferences, and of course tone and intent can be misconstrued. It seems that you really appreciate Adam and understand that he and Klimkin have totally different styles, yet you were still expecting a somewhat different approach for Adam to take with this music. That's also why I think it would be enlightening to hear what Tom Dickson has to say about his discussions with Adam and their interpretive ideas. I do believe that having to fulfill IJS requirements is a major factor which continually challenges choreographers and skaters today (not always in a way they would like to be challenged, or in a way that necessarily allows them to work with greater freedom in realizing their artistic vision).

    If you are a fan of Adam Rippon, what did you expect the approach and interpretation to be? More like the Nijinsky ballet perhaps? I think it's good to make references to Nijinsky (which Adam does), but also to be different. I suspect that by the time next season rolls around, Adam will be wearing a new costume and the program will have grown and will probably look even stronger and better with the best of the moves we already see further enhanced. In its current incarnation, to me the program is more like a sneak preview; a very enticing and beautifully skated preview of great things to come. Adam already seems very comfortable with this program, and he skates with great flow and power.

    In fact, IMO, Adam already seemed reborn at U.S. Nationals in January in contrast to the way he looked at the start of the season last fall. He is stronger, more confident and his jump technique has clearly improved (there's no sign of the hesitation going into jumps that he had been displaying previously, particularly on his 3-axel). Again, it appears that Rafael and Adam are working very well together ... that Rafael sees Adam for who he is and that Rafael is challenging Adam to express himself on the ice fearlessly and with full confidence.

    I do think it's interesting that you say you are slightly disappointed by "how pretty and accessible" the program is, but I'm not sure that "pretty and accessible" is necessarily an accurate description, particularly for a program that is a work-in-progress. I do believe that Adam has a pure, straight-forward style of skating that is definitely pleasing to the eye. This program flows beautifully, but there are also nuances to it which will likely be expanded upon as it evolves. The split jump is so gorgeous, and I love his sharp head turns and angular hand and arm movements. I also agree with arakwafan2006, that "the sensitive choreography is balanced with assertive presence," which is so wonderful to see from Adam. It is such a treat to be able to get a first look at this debut of a budding program and to discuss our first impressions. But again, what we see now is obviously going to evolve. I am quite sure a lot more difficulty in jumps and moves is going to be added, as indeed Adam's interpretation will continue to grow.

    Lastly, I wonder why you feel that with more complexity in the program and with the "heavy" emphasis on edges that Adam will have problems in terms of maintaining speed and power. Please correct me if I am misinterpreting what you mean in your initial post. And also, please don't take offence. I think what you have to say is very interesting and I'm sincerely eager to hear more about your views.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 04-06-2013 at 06:48 AM.

  10. #30
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    I am not that impressed.....But I never have been an Adam Rippon fan so I sort of expected to feel this way about the program!


  11. #31

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    Why bother to comment, then?

  12. #32
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    So, has Adam announced what he might be working on for a new sp?

    Maybe a new programs thread will be started soon...

  13. #33

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    I don't know what to think. It seemed it would be a perfect fit, but I am somewhat with Jun Y. Nijinsky- like movements are interesting, but I would love the imagery and theme to be taken further. But because it is a very new program, it all might come. I have great faith in Dickson's ability to think through every detail.
    I went on a little Adam trip through time, and I still think he was at his most inspired in 2009- 2010 season. Whether because Orser and Wilson "got him", or because of smth. else, but "Livingston Seagull" and Barber LP are so distinctive and feel so right, I just want Adam to get back in that groove.
    On a different note- Curry's "Faune" is divine. Breathtaking and heartbreaking. Like most of what he did.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    Just to clarify, the mention of "edges" in my post referred to the use of edges of the blades. It's about skating skills. I was not thinking about stylistically or thematically "edgy."

    As for the avant-garde style, obviously Adam is not Klimkin and I don't want to see Adam skate like Klimkin. I just personally prefer Klimkin's artistic vision in this case because it's more my cup of tea. (Blame IJS as needed. It's probably partially true.)

    Frankly I am slightly disappointed by how pretty and accessible the program is. Although Debussy's music is not particularly experimental or challenging, Nijinsky's original choreography is quite so. To reference Nijinsky but remain pretty is a bit disappointing.
    For his time, Debussy was very experimental and challenging though. And I think still is, to a degree, we are just used to the sound. There is so much push/pull between stasis and constant current of sound there. In fact, it's 3- times- experimental material- first as a symbolist Mallarme poem, then as Debussy's symphonic piece, and then as Nijinsky's ballet... It cries out to be unusual.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinakt View Post
    I went on a little Adam trip through time, and I still think he was at his most inspired in 2009- 2010 season. Whether because Orser and Wilson "got him", or because of smth. else, but "Livingston Seagull" and Barber LP are so distinctive and feel so right, I just want Adam to get back in that groove.
    On a different note- Curry's "Faune" is divine. Breathtaking and heartbreaking. Like most of what he did.
    Wilson, Wilson, Wilson......Adam was his "angel boy".

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by dinakt View Post
    For his time, Debussy was very experimental and challenging though. And I think still is, to a degree, we are just used to the sound. There is so much push/pull between stasis and constant current of sound there. In fact, it's 3- times- experimental material- first as a symbolist Mallarme poem, then as Debussy's symphonic piece, and then as Nijinsky's ballet... It cries out to be unusual.
    Yeah, it's probably true that Debussy was regarded as experimental in his time, although Ravel from the same period still sounds very fresh today (not including Bolero) while Debussy sounds more pleasant to our ears.

    Of Adam's programs, "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" is also my favorite.

    Skating programs are not like baking --- mix all the right ingredients in the right proportions and you get perfect muffins every time. Who knows what makes a memorable program for the ages? We can theorize till the cows come home but in the end it's all about the mysterious "chemistry." What I am really staying is: just because Mr. Dickson stormed back to the limelight with the Eleanor Rigby program for Alex Johnson, it doesn't mean he can make every skater look breathtaking in every program. Viewers adjust your expectations accordingly.

    (Besides, as long as Adam is comfortable and happy with this "Afternoon of Faun" program, how much I like it is not important. It's a silly thing to say but it's true.)

    Just my opinion.
    Last edited by Jun Y; 04-08-2013 at 11:07 PM.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    Skating programs are not like baking --- mix all the right ingredients in the right proportions and you get perfect muffins every time. Who knows what makes a memorable program for the ages? We can theorize till the cows come home but in the end it's all about the mysterious "chemistry." What I am really staying is: just because Mr. Dickson stormed back to the limelight with the Eleanor Rigby program for Alex Johnson, it doesn't mean he can make every skater look breathtaking in every program. Viewers adjust your expectations accordingly.

    (Besides, as long as Adam is comfortable and happy with this "Afternoon of Faun" program, how much I like it is not important. It's a silly thing to say but it's true.)

    Just my opinion.
    That's all very true!
    Though my faith in Dickson is not based on solely on reinvention of Alex Johnson; he quite often seems to find the lock to that door that unlocks skater's expression. Even leaving Savoie out of it, Jeremy A's Piazzola LP of 2008-9 is one of two of Abbott's favorite programs for me ( the other being "Muse"); his "Captain Blood" with Ross Miner was very much in the direction I feel Ross should be going etc...
    But you are so right in that chemistry is a mystery
    improving my ballad- like lines

  18. #38
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    Love this program for him. But whatever program he uses for next season is not going to be half as important as whether he can land the quad (and both axels). His axels are OK now, but hopefully Aratunian can help him nail down the quad (lutz or sal, or both).

  19. #39
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    I hope he makes the U.S Olympic team. Wasnt he once thought to be the future of U.S mens skating, and now he seems like yesterdays prodigy almost. I think if he has good programs next year and skates well he will make the team, atleast I hope so.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Love this program for him. But whatever program he uses for next season is not going to be half as important as whether he can land the quad (and both axels). His axels are OK now, but hopefully Aratunian can help him nail down the quad (lutz or sal, or both).
    Rippon mentioned in an interview at Nationals that he was working on the quad toe and Salchow (before his injury and 4CC withdrawal). I heard he tried a few quad toes in practices at Nationals.

    Saw this link on Twitter to some photos of his Gardena FS: http://www.figureskatersonline.com/a...ena/index.html
    Last edited by Sylvia; 04-09-2013 at 10:37 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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