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  1. #1
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    sth I noticed about ladies footwork levels

    2 years ago only 1 lady had a level 4 step sequence at the wch

    at the last world championship, it seems it's become the norm for the top ladies (and even some non top ladieS), with SEVEN skaters being given level 4's

    would an expert like to chime in and clarify for me if they think this is because in such a short time the top ladies' footwork actually progressed so dramatically or if this is just a case of judges becoming more generous with giving credit over time? i know we've discussed this before and apparently the difference between level 3-4 is very subtle and judges may be inconsistent with the levels they award.

    it just seems to me (a clueless amateur) like this also happened in the past (around 2005-2006 period) with suddenly a huge shift where all the top ladies moved from level 2 footwork to level 3 in a single competition, as if overnight they all progressed simultaneously

  2. #2

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    *The judges don't decide the levels of the step sequences. That's the job of the technical panel.

    *One change in the last two years that might be significant is that 2 years ago one of the four available features (all four are necessary for level 4) was "At least half a a pattern on one foot only." That has since been delated and replaced with "Two different combinations of 3 difficult turns (rockers, counters, brackets, twizzles, loops) quickly executed within the sequence." It may be that more skaters find it easier to accomplish the clusters of difficult turns than to cover half the ice on one foot while executing difficult turns.

    *Some technical panels are stricter than others.

    *Skaters often plan the sequence to be level 3 or 4, but in some performances, especially earlier in the season, they don't execute all the turns cleanly enough to get credit for them. So they won't always achieve the level they're trying for.

    *Sometimes the skater plans the sequence expecting it to qualify for level 3 or 4, but it turns out they misinterpreted what was needed to achieve that level. After a critique by a technical specialist explaining what they needed and didn't do, they can tweak the sequence to make sure they include everything they need.

  3. #3
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    Wow perfect response. Thank you!

    Topic closed

  4. #4

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    what is sth?

  5. #5

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    Yeah, it's just that the rules regarding the criteria have gotten more direct... like with the spins, you do the 4 criteria and you KNOW you're getting level 4. with footwork that didn't really used to be the case because it was more ~opinionated~ but it's gotten slightly better

  6. #6
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    Hmm who actually had Level 4 footwork before the rule changes? Kostner, Asada and Suzuki??? And none of them consistently gained level 4s.

  7. #7

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    To be perfectly honest the step sequences are the hardest thing about being on a tech panel. Usually the responsibility for the various aspects is divided up between the Tech Controller, Tech Specialist and Assistant Tech Specialist. One will identify rotations, one will identify steps and one will identify turns. And then you have to figure out whether they are done clean or not for it to even meet minimum requirements. Whenever I have done the TC role over the last 6 months I have just focussed on rotations and left it to the TS and ATS to do the steps and turns.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    what is sth?
    I've always read it at "something." I could be wrong though. :-)

    I agree. As the rules have become clearer and more direct, the number of Level4 awarded at competitions has generally increased, depending on the tech panel of course. But I have seen a tech panel call a Level4 (with correspondingly high GOE by judges, so the quality was there, too.) as low as Novice at a US Regional competition.

    As for the one-foot portion, I understood it to be scrapped because it was too easy to get the bullet point, and the footwork sections were all looking the same - big flurry of cross-overs around the corner to gain speed, then down the stretch on one foot to finish gathering bullets at the bottom 1/3 of the rink.

    A funny story: At a competition, when program content sheets were frequently submitted on paper, a mother was indignant that her daughter had only received Level2 on her footwork. After all, she had listed it as a Level4, not Level2. Who were these people who could not read a piece of paper?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    what is sth?
    Havnt u evr snt a txt msg?

    sth n t way she mvs
    attrcts me like no othr luvr
    sth n t way she woos me
    I dnt wnt 2 leave her now
    u no I blv n how....

    sth n t way she nos
    and all I hv 2 do is thnk of hr
    sth in t thngs she shos me
    I dnt wnt 2 leave her now
    u no I blv n how


    Last edited by Vagabond; 03-30-2013 at 06:47 PM.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by just wondering View Post
    A funny story: At a competition, when program content sheets were frequently submitted on paper, a mother was indignant that her daughter had only received Level2 on her footwork. After all, she had listed it as a Level4, not Level2. Who were these people who could not read a piece of paper?
    The number of PPCs I have seen where the skater has put down the levels on spins and steps is quite funny. You have to tell them that it is up the to tech panel to decide what the level is.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    To be perfectly honest the step sequences are the hardest thing about being on a tech panel. Usually the responsibility for the various aspects is divided up between the Tech Controller, Tech Specialist and Assistant Tech Specialist. One will identify rotations, one will identify steps and one will identify turns. And then you have to figure out whether they are done clean or not for it to even meet minimum requirements. Whenever I have done the TC role over the last 6 months I have just focussed on rotations and left it to the TS and ATS to do the steps and turns.
    oh wow, in this day and age of very little media coverage of figureskating in general, suddenly the change of rules to CoP has created more jobs!

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by zilam98 View Post
    oh wow, in this day and age of very little media coverage of figureskating in general, suddenly the change of rules to CoP has created more jobs!
    Who don't get paid. So you need more volunteers to run an event.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Who don't get paid. So you need more volunteers to run an event.
    im amazed that someone volunteers for such things, but i guess someone has to do them.

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by zilam98 View Post
    im amazed that someone volunteers for such things, but i guess someone has to do them.
    If people didn't volunteer you wouldn't have a sport.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    If people didn't volunteer you wouldn't have a sport.
    i dont know if any other sport has volunteers that are as needed to the sport as the athletes themselves, but when the board changed the rules, did they take into consideration the staffing needed to accomplish the requirements?

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by zilam98 View Post
    i dont know if any other sport has volunteers that are as needed to the sport as the athletes themselves, but when the board changed the rules, did they take into consideration the staffing needed to accomplish the requirements?
    You don't know much about how skating operates do you?

    Forget the judges, forget the technical panel. To put on an event such as regular club competition, you need the following (based on what happens where I am):

    Competition Convenor - who puts together the announcement, collects entries, organises volunteers for the event, prepares judging papers, etc etc etc.
    Pre-event data entry - puts the entries in the computer
    Computer person on the day who sets up the equipment and packs it up at the end
    Announcer
    Music steward
    People who greets skaters as they arrive and registers them, collects music
    Gate marshall - gets skaters on and off the ice
    Other volunteers who may operate the fundraising table or sells raffle tickets

    And then after that you have your judges and officials, which includes judges, tech panel, data entry operator, accountant

    Actually if you don't have the competition convenor, you don't have an event as someone has to put it together in the first place.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    You don't know much about how skating operates do you?

    Forget the judges, forget the technical panel. To put on an event such as regular club competition, you need the following (based on what happens where I am):

    Competition Convenor - who puts together the announcement, collects entries, organises volunteers for the event, prepares judging papers, etc etc etc.
    Pre-event data entry - puts the entries in the computer
    Computer person on the day who sets up the equipment and packs it up at the end
    Announcer
    Music steward
    People who greets skaters as they arrive and registers them, collects music
    Gate marshall - gets skaters on and off the ice
    Other volunteers who may operate the fundraising table or sells raffle tickets

    And then after that you have your judges and officials, which includes judges, tech panel, data entry operator, accountant

    Actually if you don't have the competition convenor, you don't have an event as someone has to put it together in the first place.

    no i dont, but did you even bother to mention other sports? that's what i asked about for comparison. seems to me that for a sport that has very little commercial support and appeal, it requires a lot of tasks that they can't afford to pay people for.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by zilam98 View Post
    no i dont, but did you even bother to mention other sports? that's what i asked about for comparison. seems to me that for a sport that has very little commercial support and appeal, it requires a lot of tasks that they can't afford to pay people for.
    I am not sure what you are wanting to compare. I would daresay that pretty much all sports, except those at the elite level, have paid professionals and gets loads of sponsorships, are volunteer run organisations. And most of them a non-profit organisations so the aim is not to make money so people can be paid. It is to run the sport and do things for those who participate.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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