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  1. #141

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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    The problem is in this situation neither Plushenko, Eldredge, or Weir, or any other elite figure skaters / journalists / writers / etc. bothered to point out what score was unjustified and quickly jumped on the bandwagon that Chan wuzgifted. On the other hand we see blog posts and forum posts analyze the PCS and why Chan's score wasn't out of line in the current system.

    Just because they been through the training and competing at the highest level doesn't mean their crying automatically becomes more valid if they can't back up their claims.
    Again, that probably wasn't their point. They probably were just outraged that the system justifiably gave Chan that title.

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Again, that probably wasn't their point. They probably were just outraged that the system justifiably gave Chan that title.
    I agree it could be like what you said (except Plushenko's case where he just flat out said it was all Skate Canada's politiking). I have more of a problem with this petition and the author's mentality that the sentiment is echoed by other elites so it must be true.

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Your making a lot of assumptions.
    You are right. But it is the kind of assumption that most people would have concluded based on what we have known so far.

    Don't you see that this whole petition thing is making the world biggest assumption of all?! And they intend to change the history of figure skating just based on their assumptions. Did Plushenko make assumption about Skate Canada involvement? Well, that was an "expertized" assumption, wasn't it?!

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    If Friedlander had any last bits of credibility as a journalist, she just destroyed them with this article.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/peti...ive-gold-medal

    Not only is the article ridiculous, but she leaves out one very important piece of information about the petition, i.e. that she started it.
    She cannot be called a journalist. No journalist could write an article about a petition they started like that. She has no credibility and neither does the site she writes for. That was the most laughable thing I've ever seen!

    No one should give her the time of day as anything more than just one more figure skating fan.

    Monica Friedlander if you read here on FSU, you are an idiot. How on earth can you call yourself a journalist and write an article about your own petition as if you were just reporting on it?
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    She cannot be called a journalist. No journalist could write an article about a petition they started like that. She has no credibility and neither does the site she writes for. That was the most laughable thing I've ever seen!
    It's incredible actually that she couldn't find/didn't think of finding anyone else to start it for her, so that it would seem acceptable for her to report it!

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    It's incredible actually that she couldn't find/didn't think of finding anyone else to start it for her, so that it would seem acceptable for her to report it!
    It seems like she is so outraged about this she's not able to give any thought to what she's doing. That's the time one should step away from the computer...
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    It's incredible actually that she couldn't find/didn't think of finding anyone else to start it for her, so that it would seem acceptable for her to report it!
    She made this blow out of proportion. Then she has gotten something for herself to write about. That's called self-sufficiency.

    And the people who chimed in to sign the petition each and everyone has their own little calculation in their mind. Some people agreed with the assumption of Ms. Friedlander's about the dirty business of Skate Canada. Some people who didn't agree with the petition wanted to ride on this high tide to achieve their own goal. Whatever it is - change the scoring system; hate Patrick Chan because their own favorite was nowhere near the podium, so they used Denis Ten; Denis Ten fans; etc. etc. ... What a zoo!
    Last edited by Eyre; 03-28-2013 at 08:00 PM.

  8. #148
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    As much as I want Kwan to be awarded a "second gold medal" for 1998, it would set too dangerous of a precedent to award golds for everything. Unless there is something illegal going on behind the scenes, and as long as there is no protest filed before close of the event, the judge's decisions are final. What would be really funny is if there was a protest for silver. "I won the bronze but should have got the silver!!" is not an argument you hear too often. Usually 3rd placers are happy they got any kind of medal (except for Irina-2006).

  9. #149
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    Well, what's next, Ms. Friedlander?!

    Maybe petition for the second gold for 2010 Olympic for Plushenko? And the second gold for 1994 Olympic for Elvis Stojko? Oh, definitely should have petition for the second gold for Kwan for 1998 Olympic.
    Last edited by Eyre; 03-28-2013 at 03:21 PM.

  10. #150
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    I looked at the petition and it seems that now that stories have been run by Kazakhstan media many people from Kazakhstan have signed the petition. I find this really sad because they appear to have been hoodwinked into thinking a US journalist is responsible for this as the article as posted earlier in the thread refers to Friedlander as a US journalist. She's as much a journalist as I am. I can go get myself published on a volunteer site like the Examiner.com too, but that shouldn't suddenly allow me to present myself with more credibility than I would otherwise have.

    Monica Friedlander is entitled to her opinion and as a figure skating fan she is entitled to post it all over the internet and to start all the petitions she wants. But it is dishonest for her to present herself as a journalist and allow people in another country to think she is a prominent, credible journalist at that so that they are drawn into her crusade when they otherwise might not be.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Ten did not skate to an equally difficult freeskate choreography as Chan did, and also Chan had a quad-triple combination plus a quad, Ten only a quad. Ten deserved to win the freeskate, which he did. He did not deserve to win the whole competition, although the result came very close and Ten would have won it by doing a liiiittle bit more.
    ITA! I'm shocked at how many people forget there is a short program factored into the score.

  12. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Ten did not skate to an equally difficult freeskate choreography as Chan did, and also Chan had a quad-triple combination plus a quad, Ten only a quad. Ten deserved to win the freeskate, which he did. He did not deserve to win the whole competition, although the result came very close and Ten would have won it by doing a liiiittle bit more.
    I love how only the quad counts in your assessment. Patrick had no triple axel.. Denis had two triple axels including a 3axel/3toe. I think two triple axels and a 3lutz more than cancels out the extra quad. Patrick also had no 3lutz. And the pass Patrick had his 3flip in was not clean. Denis absolutely out jumped Chan in that program.

  13. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    The problem is in this situation neither Plushenko, Eldredge, or Weir, or any other elite figure skaters / journalists / writers / etc. bothered to point out what score was unjustified and quickly jumped on the bandwagon that Chan wuzgifted. On the other hand we see blog posts and forum posts analyze the PCS and why Chan's score wasn't out of line in the current system.

    Just because they been through the training and competing at the highest level doesn't mean their crying automatically becomes more valid if they can't back up their claims.
    Fine. Chan was not wuzgifted based on the current judging system. But a judging system that allowed a performance like that to place the way it did is seriously flawed. So to conclude, Chan may not be wuzgifted by the flawed system, but he definitely was wuzgifted by the judging system's being seriously flawed. And I'm sure that's what a lot of people are ultimately pointing to. Are you more at peace now?

    I strongly agree with whoever that said a 1 point deduction for a fall in a program that has the potential to score 170 to 180 on average is hardly meaningful/justifiable.

  14. #154
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    There are so many different thoughts here that it's rather hard to articulate.

    If Chan's victory was fair (as in the judges correctly applied the rules to the facts - ie skate) than the rules need to be changed, because I don't believe how he skated over the two programs was worth celebrating with a gold medal. If Chan's victory was unfair (that some/all the judges incorrectly applied the rules to the skate) the judges need to be educated on how to correctly apply the rules (and if they know how but are choosing not to, they do the sport no credit and shouldn't be judging). It's likely a bit of both, honestly, and that means it'll be harder to improve. But the sport has to try.

    Why I object to these petitions and Plushenko's comments (not Wier, Eldridge, Harrison Choate, Christina Gao) is that their comments misdirect the discussion. Does Friedlander have any proof of politicking other than the general knowledge/feeling that it happens? How often is politicking used to discredit victories that we merely disagree with (Kostner wouldn't have done so well if she weren't from Cinquatta-land, Mao Asada won NHK 2012 because she's the Federation pet) etc etc. Because if she doesn't have proof and the discussion ends up being about how Skate Canada is the mafia of the figure skating world, what exactly gets solved?

    That stated, I can point out that Denis Ten got higher PCS for a skate with five falls than a skate with three falls. I can point out that Jeremy Abbott's flawed free skates outPCS his clean ones. I can do this with virtually every senior skater that competes on the grand prix and/or multiple events in a season. It's an exhausting point to reiterate but it's true.

  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    Fine. Chan was not wuzgifted based on the current judging system. But a judging system that allowed a performance like that to place the way it did is seriously flawed. So to conclude, Chan may not be wuzgifted by the flawed system, but he definitely was wuzgifted by the judging system's being seriously flawed. And I'm sure that's what a lot of people are ultimately pointing to. Are you more at peace now?

    I strongly agree with whoever that said a 1 point deduction for a fall in a program that has the potential to score 170 to 180 on average is hardly meaningful/justifiable.
    I was the one that said 1 point deduction in a 150~200 pts program is way undervalued and I have said repeatedly that I am for the system to change. I'm just pointing out the FALSE ACCUSATION that Chan's win is due to politiking, being the Saint of ISU, judging corruption, or whatever other reasons Chan haters are labeling him and Skate Canada.
    Last edited by walei; 03-29-2013 at 01:31 AM.

  16. #156

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    It seems like she is so outraged about this she's not able to give any thought to what she's doing. That's the time one should step away from the computer...
    Quite on the contrary. I think she knows very well what she is doing. (and no, I don't believe that awarding another gold medal is the real goal of her effort!)

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Quite on the contrary. I think she knows very well what she is doing. (and no, I don't believe that awarding another gold medal is the real goal of her effort!)
    What do you think her goal is? Stirring things up before the Olympics?
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  18. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    What do you think her goal is? Stirring things up before the Olympics?
    It can be several things. Making enough 'noise' and getting enough support to put a pressure on ISU to make changes in the scoring system (e.g. more deductions for falls or some bonus for clean program or whatever). Or it can have the same effect as the educational video that was given to judges before the last Olympics (it demonstrated the transitions and Plushenko was one of the skaters in the video...)

  19. #159
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    Oleg Vassiliev: "If Ten was a Canadian, would have received scores of 20-30 more»

    http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-s...147870184.html

  20. #160
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    If its all about being Canadian, how is it V&M with quite a brilliant performance at home, failed to get just the couple more points that would have given them gold?
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

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