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  1. #261
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    I think it's wonderful to see Kerry Leitch, Tai Babilonia, Debi Thomas, Tim Wood, and Sjoukje Dijkstra all having signed this and I am happy to have signed as well. I am safely skeptical about the result (as with any outcome under Cinquanta's judgement), but we shall see. I think it's going to have to take the same thing happening on an Olympic stage with a lot more eyes watching for things to really hit the fan.

  2. #262

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    Quote Originally Posted by N_Halifax View Post
    I think it's wonderful to see Kerry Leitch, Tai Babilonia, Debi Thomas, Tim Wood, and Sjoukje Dijkstra all having signed this and I am happy to have signed as well. I am safely skeptical about the result (as with any outcome under Cinquanta's judgement), but we shall see. I think it's going to have to take the same thing happening on an Olympic stage with a lot more eyes watching for things to really hit the fan.
    Kanadians, Skate Canada, Chan
    N_Halifax, Debi Thomas, Tai Babilonia, Tim Wood Cinquanta and ISU
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  3. #263

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    Frank Carroll was asked about the controversy in The Skating Lesson interview. He didn't comment on Patrick, but he said he thought the flaw with the IJS was that the judge's don't score the PCS correctly. He said at Worlds he just enjoyed the moment, but when he got back to the rink and examined Denis' scores, he noticed that his PCS was significantly higher in the long program than in the short program. Carroll didn't feel that a skater's basic skating changes that much in 2 days, and it was not just one or two judges who scored this way, it was across the board.

    This is the same thing skaters complained about with figures scoring. How could a skater go up or down 7 placements in a period of a month or less?

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Kanadians, Skate Canada, Chan
    N_Halifax, Debi Thomas, Tai Babilonia, Tim Wood Cinquanta and ISU
    And people thought all Canadians are biased towards Patrick! There are so many Canadians who want to see Patrick humiliated and insulted hiding behind the name of being objective, and they would be applauded to sky high. But if you are a Canadian and praised Patrick, you'd be labelled too subjective and biased to see what kind of lousy skater Patrick is. The hypocrisy of some people.

  5. #265

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    This is the same thing skaters complained about with figures scoring. How could a skater go up or down 7 placements in a period of a month or less?
    Not that hard to have a bad day in figures. One shaky turn can ruin a figure. If your nervous at all, you could easily blow it.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    Frank Carroll was asked about the controversy in The Skating Lesson interview. He didn't comment on Patrick, but he said he thought the flaw with the IJS was that the judge's don't score the PCS correctly. He said at Worlds he just enjoyed the moment, but when he got back to the rink and examined Denis' scores, he noticed that his PCS was significantly higher in the long program than in the short program. Carroll didn't feel that a skater's basic skating changes that much in 2 days, and it was not just one or two judges who scored this way, it was across the board.

    This is the same thing skaters complained about with figures scoring. How could a skater go up or down 7 placements in a period of a month or less?
    The SS mark doesn't assess the skater's basic overall skating skills, or the skills they are theoretically capable of...it assesses their skating skills as shown for that particular skate, of that particular program. This is why the SS mark can change for the same program from skate to skate. A skater can skate with more/less confidence/sureness, with shakier or more secure edges, with better/worse speed and flow on any given day. Additionally, the choreography can highlight the skaters' strengths or weaknesses, making their skating skills look better or worse than they actually are. Thus, the SS mark can, and should, fluctuate based on the given performance.

  7. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by fscric View Post
    And people thought all Canadians are biased towards Patrick! There are so many Canadians who want to see Patrick humiliated and insulted hiding behind the name of being objective, and they would be applauded to sky high. But if you are a Canadian and praised Patrick, you'd be labelled too subjective and biased to see what kind of lousy skater Patrick is. The hypocrisy of some people.
    What goes around will come around some day! Today is Chan and Kanadians. Wonder who's next in 2014 and beyond.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  8. #268

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    It's like a trend. One day a federation is the target of such broad-based conspiracy accusations, even if fans of skaters of that federation had been the perpetuators of such accusations against other federations before.

    We have many examples. It's only dependent on which federation actually wins. I still find the North American in Ice Dance conspiracy debate entertaining after reading years-worth if posts about how there wasn't a conspiracy in Ice Dance from some and how there was a Russian/Eastern-Euro bias from others. The debate is the same but the players have switched sides.

  9. #269

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliceanne View Post
    Frank Carroll was asked about the controversy in The Skating Lesson interview. He didn't comment on Patrick, but he said he thought the flaw with the IJS was that the judge's don't score the PCS correctly. He said at Worlds he just enjoyed the moment, but when he got back to the rink and examined Denis' scores, he noticed that his PCS was significantly higher in the long program than in the short program. Carroll didn't feel that a skater's basic skating changes that much in 2 days, and it was not just one or two judges who scored this way, it was across the board.

    This is the same thing skaters complained about with figures scoring. How could a skater go up or down 7 placements in a period of a month or less?
    I am shocked. I agree with Frank Carroll about something.

    Quote Originally Posted by luna_skater View Post
    The SS mark doesn't assess the skater's basic overall skating skills, or the skills they are theoretically capable of...it assesses their skating skills as shown for that particular skate, of that particular program. This is why the SS mark can change for the same program from skate to skate. A skater can skate with more/less confidence/sureness, with shakier or more secure edges, with better/worse speed and flow on any given day. Additionally, the choreography can highlight the skaters' strengths or weaknesses, making their skating skills look better or worse than they actually are. Thus, the SS mark can, and should, fluctuate based on the given performance.
    In theory maybe. The PCS in general and the SS in this example are supposed to be based what happens on the day, but in practice they are greatly influenced by what a skater has done in the past and how the judges view them in general. Not to mention, often PCS will actually go up for poorer skates, maybe because the judges use it to prop up skaters they like who didn't deliver on the TES. Also, I do think that SS is the component most likely to remain stable - things like IN and P&E are much more contingent on how a skater performs on the day.

    I don't see the point of this petition. I don't think Denis Ten should get a second gold medal. I do think that the ISU needs to take a good look at how the judging and scoring currently work, and maybe do a bit more than the usual tinkering once the Olympic season is over.

  10. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    In theory maybe. The PCS in general and the SS in this example are supposed to be based what happens on the day, but in practice they are greatly influenced by what a skater has done in the past and how the judges view them in general. Not to mention, often PCS will actually go up for poorer skates, maybe because the judges use it to prop up skaters they like who didn't deliver on the TES. Also, I do think that SS is the component most likely to remain stable - things like IN and P&E are much more contingent on how a skater performs on the day.

    I don't see the point of this petition. I don't think Denis Ten should get a second gold medal. I do think that the ISU needs to take a good look at how the judging and scoring currently work, and maybe do a bit more than the usual tinkering once the Olympic season is over.
    ITA on all of that! Especialy the last paragraph.

  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    It's like a trend. One day a federation is the target of such broad-based conspiracy accusations, even if fans of skaters of that federation had been the perpetuators of such accusations against other federations before.

    We have many examples. It's only dependent on which federation actually wins. I still find the North American in Ice Dance conspiracy debate entertaining after reading years-worth if posts about how there wasn't a conspiracy in Ice Dance from some and how there was a Russian/Eastern-Euro bias from others. The debate is the same but the players have switched sides.

    It is interesting to wonder if any of the Europeans feel the total dominance of Virtue & Moir and Davis & White is in anyway political, or they readily concede those two teams are in another league (which I feel they are btw, but I have no idea what they think).

    It is interesting as you said what comes around goes around. What annoys me about Canadians in figure skating is we potray ourselves the goody do goods of the sport and everyone else, especialy the big bad Russians and ex Soviets, as the big bad conspiritators; and that is so far from true it isnt even funny, as much of the last 10 years, and 5 years especialy, has proven with a capital C.

  12. #272

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    Wonder how it feels like to be a scratching on someone's favourites ..... Should be real fun judging from FSU
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  13. #273
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    It is interesting to wonder if any of the Europeans feel the total dominance of Virtue & Moir and Davis & White is in anyway political, or they readily concede those two teams are in another league
    I remember seeing posts with interviews with Russian coaches basically taking the other league view, but that has been a year or more ago.

  14. #274
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    By gosh, those kids sure all did their darnedest out there. Let's give the whole top 24 a gold medal!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Wonder who's next in 2014 and beyond.
    Chan has not retired yet.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  15. #275

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    Chan has not retired yet.
    ....... Wonder what will happen if he decides not to retire!
    We need new targets ....
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  16. #276

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    Plushenko has been a target since 1999 and is still one. I'm sure if he can handle it, Chan can too.

  17. #277
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    Maybe Denis Ten will win Olympic gold next year and then we'll kick the **** out of him until 2018.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  18. #278

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Plushenko has been a target since 1999 and is still one. I'm sure if he can handle it, Chan can too.
    BUGS NEED FRESH BLOOD TO SUCK! Plushenko's getting stale and Chan's an overdose.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG
    Maybe Denis Ten will win Olympic gold next year and then we'll kick the **** out of him until 2018.
    BUGS love new blood. Ten's should taste yummy. A more varied cuisine may attract more bugs. Does female blood taste just as good?
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  19. #279

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    How do you define a bug? Someone who is trollish in general or just someone who doesn't agree with Chan's wins and is/was vocal about it?

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    How do you define a bug? Someone who is trollish in general or just someone who doesn't agree with Chan's wins and is/was vocal about it?
    I believe the rules state that if one posts in nine or less of the "Chan Is Surely A Warlock For Winning" threads, then chances are they just might have a valid point. However, once they have posted in ten or more of these threads, then they are approaching bug/troll territory.

    I must admit I have not read all of the small-print, however...
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

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