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  1. #201
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    Just checked to see how they're doing in their bid to reach 10,000. 770? Doesn't look promising. Why didn't they just have a petition to ask them to make changes to the judging system? Certainly would've been a more successful petition I'm sure. What does simply awarding another gold medal solve? Nothing. Makes everyone feel 'all better' until the next time it happens. Also if you're gonna have a petition like this you shouldn't allow comments from people. LOL Some of them are hilarious. I like the one from Japan who also thinks Mao should be given the gold too. Yes and I'd like the 8th place dance team and the 15th place pairs team all moved up 3 spots, and the 6th place skater on the mens and womens side moved down 2 spots because that's what I think should've happened.Where do I sign?

  2. #202
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    The whole problem is the current mostly stupid judging system which produces results like this, was a knee jerk reaction from a wrong and media created 2nd gold medal 11 years ago in the first place. So on that I will agree, it is not a proper solution, and it only led to disaester and a system that led to further decline of the sport last time it happened. Figure skating is not a decathalon, the overall impression has always been hugely imporant. Results cant be arrived at accurately simply by tabulating points, and it just leaves about 30 places for judges to cheat or favor their favorites rather than 2 sets of marks to do so like before anyway.

  3. #203
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    Award a Gold Medal to Denis Ten for his Performance at the 2013 World Figure Sk

    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    Just checked to see how they're doing in their bid to reach 10,000. 770? Doesn't look promising. Why didn't they just have a petition to ask them to make changes to the judging system? Certainly would've been a more successful petition I'm sure. What does simply awarding another gold medal solve? Nothing. Makes everyone feel 'all better' until the next time it happens. Also if you're gonna have a petition like this you shouldn't allow comments from people. LOL Some of them are hilarious. I like the one from Japan who also thinks Mao should be given the gold too. Yes and I'd like the 8th place dance team and the 15th place pairs team all moved up 3 spots, and the 6th place skater on the mens and womens side moved down 2 spots because that's what I think should've happened.Where do I sign?
    Amen!

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    The whole problem is the current mostly stupid judging system which produces results like this, was a knee jerk reaction from a wrong and media created 2nd gold medal 11 years ago in the first place.
    The IOC awarded the second gold medal, not the media.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittysk8ts View Post
    OMG, this is just ridiculous. I LOVE Patrick's skating and I understand IJS/CoP and so I am comfortable with the result. And I know I am biased here, but these attacks on Patrick are just sickening and heartbreaking. I am all for speaking out against shoddy and/or crooked judging, or a flawed judging system, but I have never, nor will I ever attack the skaters themselves. They all work so hard and without them we wouldn't have our beloved sport. I agree with kylet3, it's time to move on.
    Thank you.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    I just want to elaborate on this before someone makes the blanket assumption that I'm saying there's no legitimate reason to criticize the result of the Men's competition at Worlds.

    A lot of legitimate concerns have been discussed in the various threads. Whether I agree or not, and to what extent, I think people have raised valid issues including 1. the way the PCS is implemented by the judges 2. the way the PCS is designed and whether it penalizes mistakes enough 3. the possible problem of judges assuming a kind of herd mentality which always over-rewards one particular skater 4. the possibility that reputation influences the judges

    Its a huge leap from the legitimate criticisms and concerns to essentially, "Canada bought the bloc for Patrick." Its the latter, stated without evidence, that I think is harmful.
    This^^^

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittysk8ts View Post
    Yes Clarie and Jaana . And I think what Patrick said was that Denis had doubled a jump that if he had tripled, he would have won. I don't recall him saying that Denis made as many mistakes. Either way, the issue here is IJS and not Patrick Chan. Patrick is a 22 year old man living within the insular world of elite figure skating. Could he be a smidgen more diplomatic? Perhaps. However, he is being attacked 2 years running and he doesn't have the media experience necessary to defend the attacks. Patrick speaks what he is honestly thinking and he is not hateful or mean. THIS IS NOT HIS FAULT. Judgejudy27 clearly loathes Patrick himself and in this context, that is unfair. I don't think it is a good thing to attack or mock any skater. Clearly we all here are invested in this sport in some way and so the issues become personal, but healthy and respectful dialogue, while difficult, is best. I truly hope the skaters don't come here and see the awful things said about some of them. It would be so demoralizing for them when they work so hard for their passion and to provide us with ours. Oh well, perhaps I am living in a dream world. LOL. I wish I could give Patrick a big hug because this has to be a tough time for him. On a happy note, I tweeted Denis to congratulate him on his amazing skates and he "favourited" my tweet! What a cutie pie and brilliant skater. Ok, I shall be quiet now
    Excellent post

  8. #208
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    ^^ I agree that no skater should be attacked and mocked. Shame that it happens to skaters all the time on FSU and on other skating forums, eh?

    The judging system is not the skaters' fault. This whole experience of winning multiple times for less than stellar performances has certainly been a conundrum for Patrick, and an unfortunate series of events for a remarkable skater who works very hard and should be able to enjoy his victories, not have to defend them. The fault lies squarely with the ISU and with the judging system and the judges. It's a problem to continually send a skater the message that they are exceptional enough to win consistently with major errors, simply because of above-average SS. The sport needs to appreciate that all skaters should practice figures if they have a hope of being as good as Patrick Chan is with his blades. But the main problem is over-rewarding some skaters, and under-rewarding others: i.e., inconsistent judging.

    I think Patrick seems to have a personality where he is not allowing his debatable wins and people's reactions to bother him too much negatively, but who knows? Is Worlds 2013 the straw that breaks the camel's back? Certainly, Patrick hasn't allowed the cruel belittling stuff his fans and critics have said all season long about Kathy Johnson to deter him from his decision to retain her as his coach, at least so far.


    In addition, I think it would be helpful for every skater to take dance and movement classes. I was frankly appalled by some of the performances of the lesser known skaters in the men's event. It just seems that there was a lot of sloppy/ nonexistent technique and lack of body awareness going on. Part of the problem appears to be the overly regimented IJS requirements as to why some of these skaters seemed to be taking on more than they could handle.

    The unevenness of the judging was very apparent in general and particularly among those early groups in the men's event. Someone like Christopher Caluza who was placed last in the sp!? Sure he made costly technical errors, but his overall refinement and SS were way above so many of the guys placed in front of him. Chris was dealt with extremely harshly -- perhaps his early skate order hurt him. But even though Ross Miner skated last in the last sp group, he was also low-balled with his scores, especially in comparison to mistakes made by skaters he's better than overall and/ or comparable with who were placed ahead of him in the sp. The problem is a judging system based on picking apart and throwing numbers at all the branches, bark and leaves on particular trees, rather than understanding and nourishing the roots and soil which allow the trees to grow, and rather than actually seeing and appreciating the forest of a whole performance.

    I certainly can understand kittysk8ts desire to give Patrick a hug. For me, the skaters I'd most like to give a hug and words of encouragement are Christopher Caluza, Paul Bonifacio Parkinson, Tomas Verner, Dai Takahashi, and Ross Miner. And I'd love to give a pat on the back and congrats to Denis Ten, to Javier Fernandez, to Max Aaron, to Brian Joubert, to Misha Ge, and to Patrick Chan for his sp.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    Yu Na Kim set a World record in her first worlds, without being from a powerful federation, without skating from her home country...
    There's no doubt that Osmond is good, and she has the IT factor -- something that can't be taught. Still, it helped for her to be skating in home country to a degree.* She deserved a good placement in the sp, but as a newbie without backing whether from a strong fed or as in Yu Na's case, without strong early buzz and achievements as a junior, it's difficult to get high scores in a Worlds debut. Certainly luck, skate order, and actual performance quality are factors, but politics does play a role. Yu Na had much more high visibility and buzz well before she came on the senior scene than Osmond had. The level of Osmond buzz pretty much started once this season began, even though she was highly regarded before then by those in the know who were aware of her.

    If Worlds had taken place in Japan, the venue being different might have affected the skaters differently and as well, the judging would have been slightly different, IMO. Same, if it had taken place in Russia (perhaps the baby ballerinas would have done better -- certainly the judging would have been more favorable). I'm not saying fixed results, but just the goings-on in terms of behind-the-scenes politicking which involves buzz and who says what to the judges, and what various federations say to their representatives on the technical and judging panels. And also of course, how skaters are viewed in terms of reputation/ recent results coming into the competition, and how they perform in practices.


    ETA:
    * I'm not suggesting anything to do with collusion or conspiracy, just having an edge re skating in home country, which clearly has historically been a factor in skaters' favor. Of course skating at home, a skater needs to be competitive and they need to skate well or there's little advantage, most of the time.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 04-01-2013 at 10:35 AM.

  10. #210

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    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    Just checked to see how they're doing in their bid to reach 10,000. 770? Doesn't look promising. Why didn't they just have a petition to ask them to make changes to the judging system? Certainly would've been a more successful petition I'm sure.
    Exactly. I would have supported that (rule changes). I am not going to sign a petition that sounds silly.

  11. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post

    * I'm not suggesting anything to do with collusion or conspiracy, just having an edge re skating in home country, which clearly has historically been a factor in skaters' favor.
    Not "clearly" and not "historically". Often it is a huge disadvantage because of the expectations and pressure.

    Of course skating at home, a skater needs to be competitive and they need to skate well or there's little advantage, most of the time.
    A skater needs to be competitive and to skate well to have an advantage no matter where the competition is being held.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    No I'm not saying D10 wuzgifted, because if anything one can argue he should've receive higher PCS for his SP.
    The problem is, we won't know how the skaters afterwards will perform, and can only use the skaters who have skated previously as a relative reference point of component scores.

    The only skaters that were left to skate after Denis Ten in the SP were Chan, Takahashi and Miner. Here were the component scores to that point:

    9 Yuzuru HANYU JPN 40.82
    2 Denis TEN KAZ 40.75
    7 Javier FERNANDEZ ESP 40.56
    5 Brian JOUBERT FRA 39.97
    6 Michal BREZINA CZE 39.17
    10 Florent AMODIO FRA 38.74
    3 Kevin REYNOLDS CAN 37.47

    In hindsight, was Denis Ten's component scores relative to only these skaters listed actually correct for the short program?

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seerek View Post
    The problem is, we won't know how the skaters afterwards will perform, and can only use the skaters who have skated previously as a relative reference point of component scores.

    The only skaters that were left to skate after Denis Ten in the SP were Chan, Takahashi and Miner. Here were the component scores to that point:

    9 Yuzuru HANYU JPN 40.82
    2 Denis TEN KAZ 40.75
    7 Javier FERNANDEZ ESP 40.56
    5 Brian JOUBERT FRA 39.97
    6 Michal BREZINA CZE 39.17
    10 Florent AMODIO FRA 38.74
    3 Kevin REYNOLDS CAN 37.47

    In hindsight, was Denis Ten's component scores relative to only these skaters listed actually correct for the short program?
    Good point. Hanyu bombed his SP and Daisuke also had a fall IIRC and got higher PCS than Ten. Where is the Wuzzrobbed or Wuzzgifted in this situation from the Chan haters / judges are cheating criers??

  14. #214

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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    Good point. Hanyu bombed his SP and Daisuke also had a fall IIRC and got higher PCS than Ten. Where is the Wuzzrobbed or Wuzzgifted in this situation from the Chan haters / judges are cheating criers??
    Like always, my rule is selective.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Like always, my rule is selective.
    And don't need evidence or proof.

  16. #216
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    Awarding a 2nd gold is no solution. Ten was robbed, he should have won easily over a way overscored Chan, but 2nd medals are always stupid and never solve anything. A better solution is to now fix the judging problems that the sport are getting worse and worse in now. In the end nobody is really a winner, Chan isnt considered a real winner of the event, and the person who should have got the gold medal can never have that moment given to him now either. If they should do anything just leave the title vacant like the 94 U.S ladies when Harding was stripped.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by mustafinabars View Post
    Awarding a 2nd gold is no solution. Ten was robbed, he should have won easily over a way overscored Chan, but 2nd medals are always stupid and never solve anything. A better solution is to now fix the judging problems that the sport are getting worse and worse in now. In the end nobody is really a winner, Chan isnt considered a real winner of the event, and the person who should have got the gold medal can never have that moment given to him now either. If they should do anything just leave the title vacant like the 94 U.S ladies when Harding was stripped.
    You mean then they should leave 2002 pairs title vacant? And they also should leave 2012 NHK title vacant? Oh, what about 2011 Japan Nationals title? Should Takahashi's title be stripped too?
    Last edited by Eyre; 04-03-2013 at 03:55 AM.

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  19. #219

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    So Ted Wilson thinks figure skating will be 'eliminated from Olympics'? Well, figure skating does not need to part of Olympics to survive does it? Figure skating federations are then free to create their own competitions to the rules they prefer rather than to the rules set up by ISU. That should bring back the audience to figure skating as Ted Wilson claims.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  20. #220
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    If figure skating is removed from the Olympics, the numbers of women viewing in wealthy nations like Japan and USA will go down about 50% or more. They will not watch the women's bobsled instead. I think Ted Wilson is crazy and must believe that pigs will fly.

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