VarBar, those are all excellent questions to which I don't have the answers.
VarBar, those are all excellent questions to which I don't have the answers.
In the previous Olympic cycle (pre-2010), people on this board were bemoaning as to why Brian Joubert consistently received the highest (or among the highest) component scores (sometimes outscoring Lambiel and Takahashi). The target always seems to change (and will eventually change to somebody else in the next Olympic cycle, I presume).
Yes Clarie and Jaana . And I think what Patrick said was that Denis had doubled a jump that if he had tripled, he would have won. I don't recall him saying that Denis made as many mistakes. Either way, the issue here is IJS and not Patrick Chan. Patrick is a 22 year old man living within the insular world of elite figure skating. Could he be a smidgen more diplomatic? Perhaps. However, he is being attacked 2 years running and he doesn't have the media experience necessary to defend the attacks. Patrick speaks what he is honestly thinking and he is not hateful or mean. THIS IS NOT HIS FAULT. Judgejudy27 clearly loathes Patrick himself and in this context, that is unfair. I don't think it is a good thing to attack or mock any skater. Clearly we all here are invested in this sport in some way and so the issues become personal, but healthy and respectful dialogue, while difficult, is best. I truly hope the skaters don't come here and see the awful things said about some of them. It would be so demoralizing for them when they work so hard for their passion and to provide us with ours. Oh well, perhaps I am living in a dream world. LOL. I wish I could give Patrick a big hug because this has to be a tough time for him. On a happy note, I tweeted Denis to congratulate him on his amazing skates and he "favourited" my tweet! What a cutie pie and brilliant skater. Ok, I shall be quiet now
Last edited by kittysk8ts; 03-27-2013 at 12:01 AM. Reason: Forgot a quote
Show me a topic where Chan is being discussed and I can assure you that JJ is spewing her hate for Patrick in multiple posts -- and usually saying the same thing.
You know what they say is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over again yet expecting different results. If I apply such to JJ and her posts about Patrick not deserving to win in spite of the face that he won anyway, I think the conclusion is clear. ;-) JJ is insane for Patrick. :-)
Back to topic. I would not consider signing the petition. I am still thrilled to bits for Denis. I have enjoyed watching him for years, just not always his results. So glad he could skate two good programs. As was said earlier, let's see how well young Mr Ten skates now that his name is "up there" amongst those to watch for podium picks.
Crazy about sports!
One of the things I like best about Patrick Chan is that he skates programs that are a challenge to himself, that only on his good/best days that he can skate cleanly. Because he could very easily dumb down his programs in such a way that he could skate them cleanly every time but unlike so many top skaters he continues to challenge himself. I don't mind when he falters because it moves me to tears when he soars and that is so much better then a bunch of mediocre glop. In pushing himself he pushes all of the men to get better and that is a great thing.
Last edited by JanetB; 03-27-2013 at 06:59 PM. Reason: spelling
I want to thank you Lord for being with me so far this day. With your help, I have not been inpatient, lost my temper been grumpy or envious of anyone. But I will be getting out of bed in a minute and I think I will really need your help then. Amen
Stale pastry is hollow succour to a man who is bereft of ostrich. - Sheldon Cooper, The Big Bang Theory
This is a ridiculous approach to take and SO inconsiderate towards Denis Ten and his own feelings about his historic achievement. Has any of the signers read his message to the fans after the Worlds? Do people seriously think he'll want to be remembered as a second winner of the 2013 Worlds Championship after a controversial hoopla that ended with a petition that overruled the original results weeks after the whole thing was over?
Now if it were the Kazakhstan Federation or his coaching staff starting the petition, that's a whole different story.
I am so happy all the reasonable folk joined the thread Rock on FSU!!! Facts and logic....not blind hatred.
It will be tough to have unambiguous rules in FS because of the nature of this sport, but it is important for the ISU to acknowledge there is a problem and try to fix it instead of pushing it under the rug. I don't believe in changing results of a game/competition after it's over, but I am open to changing rules for future competitions. That's what the petition needs to be for, and not for a second gold.
The petition may be misguided, but it clearly is tapping into feelings that many people have regarding the results which are not simply a matter of some people being upset that a skater they wanted and expected to win, didn't win. Also, I don't think it's about disrespecting Patrick Chan. IMO, Patrick is as victimized by faulty judging and faulty scoring system as much as all the skaters.
In any case, no matter how many people sign a petition like this, the result is not going to be changed. I suspect the people who drafted the petition may or may not have in mind the ultimate objective of Ten being awarded the gold medal, since that is highly unlikely to happen. Perhaps it is more about tapping into the feeling many people seem to have that something is not right about the results of the men's competition and the scoring system in particular. Again, no rap on Patrick personally, but if a blind poll could be taken among all the current eligible skaters and former skaters as to whom they thought should have won on the basis of two fine performances, Denis would probably come out ahead. I think Denis is fine about taking silver, but figure skating on that night lost out big time.
I noticed at least two familiar names on the petition: Timothy Goebel and Debi Thomas. There are probably many people who feel Denis deserved to win, but may disagree with putting together this type of petition, yet ended up signing anyway. Not necessarily because they think the results will be changed, but as a show of support for the possibility of meaningful change in the sport of figure skating. In any case, I think the results of the men's competition are somewhat more laughable than this petition. Again, this is re the judging, and not Patrick ... It's not about hating on Patrick. After all, Patrick apologized for a reason.
If Jeremy Abbott, at Skate America last year, with two falls and a time violation deduction could beat on the PC mark a Konstantin Menshov with no falls and two clean quadruples by nearly ten points, maybe Carolina would be entitled to a few more points over Gracie for her components.
Aren't the judges supposed to follow the same rules whether they judge Olympic Games or Grand Prix events?
If you are a Fernandez fan - btw, I like Fernandez - you surely remember his bad FS skate at 2012 NHK with two falls and some mistakes on other jumps. By contrast, Ross Miner skated his program cleanly at that competition, with a quad and two 3As - he did get an edge call but this mistake didn't disrupt the flow of the program. Did Fernandez lose the components mark to Miner? No, he did not.
I wasn't justifying Chan's marks but trying to suggest that it might not be fair to pick on just the scores of the World Championships winner. That's all.
Denis Ten spoke diplomatically at a press conference today (March 27) in Astana, KAZ: http://bnews.kz/en/news/post/130473/
March 26 article in an English language news website in Kazakhstan about the petition: http://en.tengrinews.kz/sport/US-jou...nis-Ten-18006/
"Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden
Quote from the article:
The expert opinions! We all know how much Johnny knows about IJS. Todd Eldredge was a 6.0 skater. I doubt he understands much about this system. Even Kurt Browning who is constantly involving in current skating TV commentating admited that after practicing his "singing in the rain" program for his Pro-Am competition last year, he now understood more about the judging system and appreciated and admired more for what the current skaters do on ice.The authors of the petition also cite the expert opinions about undeserved victory of Chan, including the statements of the Olympic champion Yevgeni Plushenko and famous American figure skaters Todd Eldredge and Johnny Weir.
Last edited by Eyre; 03-27-2013 at 09:22 PM.
Denis Ten is a class act. Hoping he continues this positive success, he's been a great skater to watch for years already.
I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields