Page 5 of 16 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 310
  1. #81
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    38
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Award a Gold Medal to Denis Ten for his Performance at the 2013 World Figure Sk

    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Lets see I could fee symphaty for starving children around the World who never really had a shot at life, people in Middle Eastern countries murdered for either being gay, being jewish, or being women, or being forced to have babies at 11 or marry men they dont even know at 12; or feel sorry for a spoiled brat who gets handed World and Olympic titles, fame and fortune, and a place in history all on a silver platter simply for showing up, even if he falls on his ass 5 or 6 times each time out, which even the bottom finishers at World events typically dont do. I will choose the former thank you.



    Well atleast he is in touch with reality about one thing. That is refreshing to know.
    Wow, you really put things into perspective here, thanks for that. Can I ask, why do you even watch figure skating, let alone bitch about when there is so much strife in the world?

  2. #82

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,950
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    91872
    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Seriously. People may hate the whole 'second gold' for SLC, but at least there they had actual reasons to consider there was corrupted judging/collusion. (Ie, a judge having a couple breakdowns in front of witnesses.) There's no evidence at all any judges deliberately collaborated to "give" Chan the win, they used the scoring system as it stands and he came out first overall.
    Do you really believe western judges don't collude? There is corruption throughout the world of FS, not just in Russia and eastern Europe. How do you explain the German and Canadian judges placing S&P 1st in the SP, despite their fall at the end, and the perfection of B&S's performance?

    In Chan's case, you don't know if there was collusion because the IJS keeps the judges anonymous.

  3. #83

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,950
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    91872
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Lets see I could fee symphaty for starving children around the World who never really had a shot at life, people in Middle Eastern countries murdered for either being gay, being jewish, or being women, or being forced to have babies at 11 or marry men they dont even know at 12; or feel sorry for a spoiled brat who gets handed World and Olympic titles, fame and fortune, and a place in history all on a silver platter simply for showing up, even if he falls on his ass 5 or 6 times each time out, which even the bottom finishers at World events typically dont do. I will choose the former thank you.



    Well atleast he is in touch with reality about one thing. That is refreshing to know.
    No, he is not. 'Everyone' does not hate him. He has many fans that will ignore his imperfections and justify his wins regardless of how he skates (to be fair, he did have some well deserved wins)

  4. #84
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Stupid petition! So now any skating competition could be overturned if some people are not satisfied?! Dream on!

    Unless you could find any wrong doing by the judges like in 2002 Olympics, this petition is not going to succeed. What a joke!

  5. #85

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,950
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    91872
    I will not sign the petition because I believe in not changing the outcome of sports once the competition/game is over. I don't believe in the second gold either.

  6. #86
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    619
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Very true. I believe the only country awarded a second gold medal from any judged sport is Canada, and they have had it happen for them TWICE no less. Canadians are the biggest crybabies when it comes to judging, but go mum when it is them who get the gifts.
    YOU, Judgejudy, are the biggest crybaby when it comes to judging...not Canadians.

    That is all.

  7. #87
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I don't believe in the second gold either, not even in 2002 Olympics!

  8. #88

    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Posts
    7,595
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1913
    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post

    For me it's a matter of degree - he's better, but four falls better? Two falls? It's hard to quantify. Ironically I think this year's result was not as bad as last year's. Ten was within 3 points of Chan's PCS in the LP, which is reasonable. Last year, I cannot understand how Chan deserved almost 5 PCS points more than Takahashi, whose performance was stronger than Ten's in 2013, IMO. Last year the difference between Chan and Takahashi was greater than the difference between Takahashi and Amodio/Joubert in PCS and I can't justify that.

    So I actually see that the judges already are making somewhat of an effort to get Chan's scores down to earth this year, but it wasn't enough for Ten to overtake him, either because Ten isn't quite that good, or because he doesn't have enough reputation (I would give him some green blobs if I could ).

    I guess my problem with the system is that I see where Chan's scores may be justified, I see where Ten winning may be justified, but I don't have confidence that the numbers input by the judges are strictly based on the criteria and what they see on the ice, rather than being due to politiks and reputation. So I can't quite agree with people that say the result can be explained by reviewing the protocols or that all is fair because Ten won the LP (but did he win by the right margin?).
    ITA with the above.

  9. #89
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    This petition and this thread indeed belong to Trash Can. Thanks to the FSU mods!

  10. #90

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,950
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    91872
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozzisk8tr View Post
    Totally agree bmcg. There's irritating, then there's "jesus h christ, will this person ever shut up?"
    What you are implying is anyone that disagrees with you should not express his/her opinion on fsu.

    ETA: This was meant for both you and bmcg. While doing multiple posts/quotes I did something wrong and only yours appeared.

  11. #91

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Near Montreal...
    Posts
    1,466
    vCash
    561
    Rep Power
    1045
    Wow, this Chan hate is getting out of hand.

    The new COP system rewards what a skater does well over the course of the entire event. It also deducts for all the mistakes, it is then a simple case of math – adding up all the good stuff and deducting all the mistakes and that’s the total score; it is not that complicated. Chan won the title overall, mostly based on his stellar SP; but he did just enough in the LP, thanks to his 2 great quads, to keep his lead overall, but by the skin of his teeth - barely a point, so it was a very close victory.

    Chan did lose to Ten in the free, rightly so, Ten was really, really good, but even he was not quite perfect either. Chan was 2nd, but Chan based on BOTH his programs still had enough points in the till to be 1st overall.

    Yes, Chan fell in the long program, but he took all the deductions according to the rules. It was not his best long program ( seems now that Chan will always have to be perfect to be considered a worthy champion). However, he still completed his 2 biggest LP scoring tricks -- Quad toe /3t and quad toe, so with his lead in the short (for a truly outstanding SP) plus the points from the quads in the LP, he had built up a bit of a buffer, points wise, to keep himself in the hunt, even with some mistakes.

    History shows us that the advantage always goes to the past champion, esp., when skating decisions are really close. No doubt about it, Ten skated very well in London, and had Ten skated that well during this past grand prix season and also during this past Oly cycle, then perhaps Ten too would have built up enough rep to have a bigger boost PCS wise, but then, he would also have had to deal with the huge pressure of expectation, like Chan, the Japanese and new Euro champ -Fernandez, and newly crowned 4CC champ - Reynolds, had to. As things unfolded, Ten flew under the radar. According to results this past season everyone expected Fernandez, Hanyu or Dai, perhaps even Reynolds (with another miraculous skate) to possibly beat Chan. But Chan refused to go quietly into the night, he beat them all proving himself as the world champion he was/is, in the pressure cooker of the short program, he skated the best sp in world record breaking fashion, simple as that.

    Let's see how Ten responds next season, when he has that additional podium expectation upon his shoulders. Had the other contending men all done their jobs better in the sp, then maybe the final results in London would have been different!

    The truth is pretty much that everyone else choked, the exceptions were Ten, and Reynolds in the sp. The Japanese men and Fernandez, were all very, very, underwhelming in the SP. I guess that’s Chan fault too, the way all this magical thinking and petition writing is going.

    Here is the truth: None of the favored men skated well, fact is, most were quite sub par. This fan was very disapointed and completely underwhelmed by Dai, Hanyu, Fernandez, Amodio, Miner, Verner, the list goes on. They all seem exhausted, or uninterested and wishing they were anywhere else but in London. But, I also found a whole new respect for Joubert, he at least looked like he was trying, his mind and spirit willing, but the body failing him. Liebers got his job done, why is he so under the radar? Reynold's and Rogozine also manged to rise to the occasion of a home worlds and for the most part so did Chan.

    Hanyu, the skater with the previous world record in the short, perhaps due to inexperience, injury, or sickness, whatever the reason was, he simply tanked his sp and was 9th scoring only 75.94 instead of his expected 1st place score of around 95, so he lost a lot of points and Hanyu is not considered a long program skater due to his health issues, he needed to come out on top in the sp. Fernandez the new Euro champ was 7th also well under his best SP score, but only by about 8 points. Still, they both had big hills to climb. These 2Orser students, were the supposed 2 big guns with the best potential knockout punches to beat Chan – given Hanyu’s record short, or Fernandez’s 3 Quad long! If that wasn’t enough ammunition there were also 2 very popular former world champs taking aim at Chan and some other quad jumper’s also in the London field, guys likely to be in the top 10, perhaps with outside shots at bronze; men such as Brezina, Amodio, Kovtun, Verner, Aaron, Miner, Song, the list goes on so if the planets had aligned in the right way, any one of them could have been considered as, at least in the hunt for a spot on the podium. All these men with Quads, 3 axels in their pockets, had ample opportunity to take down Chan, who was admitting to not being at his best, plus SC fed was not overly thrilled with his new coaching situation, so that decision was comming under scrutiny - the 2 time world champion over the season had looked like he was having doubts, but when the time came to skate the SP in London, none of the 33 other men in the field beat him. He not only defended, he actually broke a new world SP record.

    Some of these very popular guys had lots of rep and momentum from past GP season coming into London with them. I was waiting to see them skate in person having witnessed all the hype around these other contender’s, I thought there was going to be a great contest. Chan had lost steam over the season and everyone expected he might be in trouble perhaps 3rd or 4th this year based on his GP season, but still none of the other big guns managed to deliver in the short program when it counted. They all pretty much choked big time; only Ten flying under the radar, even came close.

    Is Chan the new Plushenko? I seem to recall some FSU backlash over some of Plushenko’s scores too. I suppose it is Chan’s fault, as he actually skated a career personal best short program – setting a new world record, while the new national Japanese champ and former holder of said record - the adorable Hanyu, with all these new expectations simply tanked his. People are going on about hometown advantage, and skate Canada power politics, but perhaps the sea of red in the stadium was just additional pressure heaped upon the already overloaded Chan, as well as the other Cdn skater's; advantage baloney -- more terrifying if you ask me, since there was not even a Cdn judge on the Men’s, dance, or the ladies panel, so no toe tapping going on there... I don’t think there was any undue influence nd even if the judges on the men's panel had a dream scenario in mind, the skater's still have to skate well to make it happen. Ten was given great PCS so he was being well supported, despite no real track record, just tons of potential.

    Everyone was all a twitter, when Hanyu broke the sp record, but seems everyone would prefer to ignore Chan’s record breaking sp skate, and focus instead on the mistakes he made in his freeskate; go figure, perhaps if TV also showed the sp's like they used to, maybe there would be less controversy...

    Instead of blaming Chan, or writing petitions, maybe the other guys should have all skated better. It’s not like Chan is the only skater getting a boost when he skates well, the Russian pairs team of V&T also got huge scores, even with mistakes, they wound up 20 pts higher than everyone else.

    Hanyu the guy with the previous world highest SP score was 9th, Fernandez well back in 7th and Dai was 4th giving Dai the best chance of those most favored to take out Chan in the freeskate. Only Fernandez climbed out of the cellar with his 4th place long program and on to the podium with his 3rd place overall finish. Hanyu simply could not dig himself out of the giant hole even with the 3rd best long program of the night, not even with the help of skater’s like Dai, Joubert both tumbling back down the results column, it was not enough to lift Hanyu out of the hole he had dug for himself.

    I was there in person and instead of the great contest I was hoping for, all the major contender's choked at some point, even Chan had some issues in his LP. Few contending men rose to the occasion, there were skater's who did beat their personal bests in the SP-- guys like Reynold's, Brezina, Joubert, Aaron to name a few. While Mura, Rogozine, Liebers, Ge etc., rose up did their PB in the long. There was a lot of cannon fodder too, a lot of men just came unglued in the freeskate. Experienced guys some former world champs like Dai and Joubert, also Brezina, Amodio, Song dropped like stones. Ten being under the radar with no expectations skated very, very well, achieving personal bests in both sp and lp. Ten had great Lori N. material to sell, and a respected coach at the boards helping to hold his nerve and hone his efforts, then again he did not have the huge pressure of expectation to carry out on to the ice either, just the confidence that came from his PB sp! Ten was not wearing the big target on his back, he was becomming “the little engine that could” quietly chugging up the track being cheered on by the spectator’s, but still well under the radar.

    Most of the Men contender's succumbed to nerves. Patrick did his job well enough to create a new world record sp score and managed to hold the lead overall even with a sub par (for him) freeskate, which was still pretty good when compared to the rest of the field.

    Whenever it is a very close decision in skating, the benefit of the doubt and thus the title usually goes to the past champion, defending is always considered tougher than chasing, that’s the way it has always been done. Ten was great, he certainly earned his silver medal, for sure; now let’s see what he can do next season with these new podium expectations, shall we?

    No, judges are trained to make these types of calls for a good reason, fans can have opinions but as stated above "this ain't dancing with the stars or idol," we fans don't get a vote, and before starting petitions perhaps we all need to chill a bit and to reflect and review and ponder where all the hue and cry is comming from and what may be really motivating any controversy...

  12. #92
    AYS's snark-sponge
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    in the Bobrova & Soloviev Fan Clubhouse
    Posts
    41,913
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    30529
    Wow 1800 words! Good job, Debrah.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  13. #93
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    They are just using Denis Ten. Poor Denis!

  14. #94

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,863
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    40900
    Interesting interpretation of the facts.

  15. #95
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    1,124
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    What you are implying is anyone that disagrees with you should not express his/her opinion on fsu.

    ETA: This was meant for both you and bmcg. While doing multiple posts/quotes I did something wrong and only yours appeared.
    Disagree. We were specifically addressing an idiot with an annoying history.

  16. #96
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,571
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Great Job Debrah.
    Its absolutely as I saw it. Chan left the door open no one walked completed through. Ten just stood in the doorway.

  17. #97
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,943
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post

    Unless you could find any wrong doing by the judges like in 2002 Olympics
    Yes, i agree with you.

  18. #98

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,911
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2529
    Quote Originally Posted by Debrah View Post
    Wow, this Chan hate is getting out of hand.

    I was there in person and instead of the great contest I was hoping for, all the major contender's choked at some point, even Chan had some issues in his LP. Few contending men rose to the occasion, there were skater's who did beat their personal bests in the SP-- guys like Reynold's, Brezina, Joubert, Aaron to name a few. While Mura, Rogozine, Liebers, Ge etc., rose up did their PB in the long. There was a lot of cannon fodder too, a lot of men just came unglued in the freeskate. Experienced guys some former world champs like Dai and Joubert, also Brezina, Amodio, Song dropped like stones. Ten being under the radar with no expectations skated very, very well, achieving personal bests in both sp and lp. Ten had great Lori N. material to sell, and a respected coach at the boards helping to hold his nerve and hone his efforts, then again he did not have the huge pressure of expectation to carry out on to the ice either, just the confidence that came from his PB sp! Ten was not wearing the big target on his back, he was becomming “the little engine that could” quietly chugging up the track being cheered on by the spectator’s, but still well under the radar.

    Most of the Men contender's succumbed to nerves. Patrick did his job well enough to create a new world record sp score and managed to hold the lead overall even with a sub par (for him) freeskate, which was still pretty good when compared to the rest of the field.
    Well written post. Thank you. I was also there that in person and also disappointed that it was not the great contest that I hoped. It was in a word "underwhelming". In many respects, it reminded me of past Canadian Ladies competitions, a lot of the men looked like deers in headlights. I agree that Chan was sub par but better than the rest of the field. Ten was great, but you are right he did not have any pressure on his shoulders and as many have pointed out, his program was not as difficult as Chan's.
    Last edited by algonquin; 03-26-2013 at 07:31 PM.

  19. #99
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    832
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Well, this is sad. Clearly some disgruntled fan has far too much time on his/her hands.

  20. #100
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Does it matter?
    Posts
    1,175
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    For me it's a matter of degree - he's better, but four falls better? Two falls? It's hard to quantify. Ironically I think this year's result was not as bad as last year's. Ten was within 3 points of Chan's PCS in the LP, which is reasonable. Last year, I cannot understand how Chan deserved almost 5 PCS points more than Takahashi, whose performance was stronger than Ten's in 2013, IMO. Last year the difference between Chan and Takahashi was greater than the difference between Takahashi and Amodio/Joubert in PCS and I can't justify that.
    Hmm, I didn't take the 5-point differential on PC as an attempt of the judges to give Chan the gold no matter what. Even if the judges had marked Chan down by a couple of points or had marked Takahashi up by a couple of points, I suppose Chan would still have won the competition due to a 4 points lead after the short program and I don't think that a win by just one point is any less valuable than a win by ten points. Denis being within 3 points of Chan, could it be explained by that Chan fell two times in 2013 but just one time in 2012? But I know it's Chan's GOEs and Chan's PC marks that get scrutinized and questioned, has anyone ever wondered how Takahashi ended up with a positive GOE for a quad he landed on two feet at last season's Worlds? Or how he could get the highest PC mark in the free skate in Vancouver for a performance with multiple negative GOEs and a fall on top of it? Can a skater who falls beat a skater who doesn't fall or should we believe Johnny Weir that he was robbed off the bronze medal in 2010? I feel whoever would dare ask those questions would be verbally attacked by an angry mob calling them trolls, idiots and retards.

    I guess my problem with the system is that I see where Chan's scores may be justified, I see where Ten winning may be justified, but I don't have confidence that the numbers input by the judges are strictly based on the criteria and what they see on the ice, rather than being due to politiks and reputation. So I can't quite agree with people that say the result can be explained by reviewing the protocols or that all is fair because Ten won the LP (but did he win by the right margin?)
    Do we have confidence that Davis and White rightfully won the free dance in London to Virtue and Moir or was it politicking and collusion among the judges? And if we agree they deserved to win that dance, do we have confidence they won by the right margin? I guess we will never know.

    How many signatures does that petition need for Denis Ten to be awarded a second gold? Five hundred, five thousand or fifty thousand?

Page 5 of 16 FirstFirst ... 3456715 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •