In Chan's case, you don't know if there was collusion because the IJS keeps the judges anonymous.
I will not sign the petition because I believe in not changing the outcome of sports once the competition/game is over. I don't believe in the second gold either.
I don't believe in the second gold either, not even in 2002 Olympics!
This petition and this thread indeed belong to Trash Can. Thanks to the FSU mods!
Wow, this Chan hate is getting out of hand.
The new COP system rewards what a skater does well over the course of the entire event. It also deducts for all the mistakes, it is then a simple case of math – adding up all the good stuff and deducting all the mistakes and that’s the total score; it is not that complicated. Chan won the title overall, mostly based on his stellar SP; but he did just enough in the LP, thanks to his 2 great quads, to keep his lead overall, but by the skin of his teeth - barely a point, so it was a very close victory.
Chan did lose to Ten in the free, rightly so, Ten was really, really good, but even he was not quite perfect either. Chan was 2nd, but Chan based on BOTH his programs still had enough points in the till to be 1st overall.
Yes, Chan fell in the long program, but he took all the deductions according to the rules. It was not his best long program ( seems now that Chan will always have to be perfect to be considered a worthy champion). However, he still completed his 2 biggest LP scoring tricks -- Quad toe /3t and quad toe, so with his lead in the short (for a truly outstanding SP) plus the points from the quads in the LP, he had built up a bit of a buffer, points wise, to keep himself in the hunt, even with some mistakes.
History shows us that the advantage always goes to the past champion, esp., when skating decisions are really close. No doubt about it, Ten skated very well in London, and had Ten skated that well during this past grand prix season and also during this past Oly cycle, then perhaps Ten too would have built up enough rep to have a bigger boost PCS wise, but then, he would also have had to deal with the huge pressure of expectation, like Chan, the Japanese and new Euro champ -Fernandez, and newly crowned 4CC champ - Reynolds, had to. As things unfolded, Ten flew under the radar. According to results this past season everyone expected Fernandez, Hanyu or Dai, perhaps even Reynolds (with another miraculous skate) to possibly beat Chan. But Chan refused to go quietly into the night, he beat them all proving himself as the world champion he was/is, in the pressure cooker of the short program, he skated the best sp in world record breaking fashion, simple as that.
Let's see how Ten responds next season, when he has that additional podium expectation upon his shoulders. Had the other contending men all done their jobs better in the sp, then maybe the final results in London would have been different!
The truth is pretty much that everyone else choked, the exceptions were Ten, and Reynolds in the sp. The Japanese men and Fernandez, were all very, very, underwhelming in the SP. I guess that’s Chan fault too, the way all this magical thinking and petition writing is going.
Here is the truth: None of the favored men skated well, fact is, most were quite sub par. This fan was very disapointed and completely underwhelmed by Dai, Hanyu, Fernandez, Amodio, Miner, Verner, the list goes on. They all seem exhausted, or uninterested and wishing they were anywhere else but in London. But, I also found a whole new respect for Joubert, he at least looked like he was trying, his mind and spirit willing, but the body failing him. Liebers got his job done, why is he so under the radar? Reynold's and Rogozine also manged to rise to the occasion of a home worlds and for the most part so did Chan.
Hanyu, the skater with the previous world record in the short, perhaps due to inexperience, injury, or sickness, whatever the reason was, he simply tanked his sp and was 9th scoring only 75.94 instead of his expected 1st place score of around 95, so he lost a lot of points and Hanyu is not considered a long program skater due to his health issues, he needed to come out on top in the sp. Fernandez the new Euro champ was 7th also well under his best SP score, but only by about 8 points. Still, they both had big hills to climb. These 2Orser students, were the supposed 2 big guns with the best potential knockout punches to beat Chan – given Hanyu’s record short, or Fernandez’s 3 Quad long! If that wasn’t enough ammunition there were also 2 very popular former world champs taking aim at Chan and some other quad jumper’s also in the London field, guys likely to be in the top 10, perhaps with outside shots at bronze; men such as Brezina, Amodio, Kovtun, Verner, Aaron, Miner, Song, the list goes on so if the planets had aligned in the right way, any one of them could have been considered as, at least in the hunt for a spot on the podium. All these men with Quads, 3 axels in their pockets, had ample opportunity to take down Chan, who was admitting to not being at his best, plus SC fed was not overly thrilled with his new coaching situation, so that decision was comming under scrutiny - the 2 time world champion over the season had looked like he was having doubts, but when the time came to skate the SP in London, none of the 33 other men in the field beat him. He not only defended, he actually broke a new world SP record.
Some of these very popular guys had lots of rep and momentum from past GP season coming into London with them. I was waiting to see them skate in person having witnessed all the hype around these other contender’s, I thought there was going to be a great contest. Chan had lost steam over the season and everyone expected he might be in trouble perhaps 3rd or 4th this year based on his GP season, but still none of the other big guns managed to deliver in the short program when it counted. They all pretty much choked big time; only Ten flying under the radar, even came close.
Is Chan the new Plushenko? I seem to recall some FSU backlash over some of Plushenko’s scores too. I suppose it is Chan’s fault, as he actually skated a career personal best short program – setting a new world record, while the new national Japanese champ and former holder of said record - the adorable Hanyu, with all these new expectations simply tanked his. People are going on about hometown advantage, and skate Canada power politics, but perhaps the sea of red in the stadium was just additional pressure heaped upon the already overloaded Chan, as well as the other Cdn skater's; advantage baloney -- more terrifying if you ask me, since there was not even a Cdn judge on the Men’s, dance, or the ladies panel, so no toe tapping going on there... I don’t think there was any undue influence nd even if the judges on the men's panel had a dream scenario in mind, the skater's still have to skate well to make it happen. Ten was given great PCS so he was being well supported, despite no real track record, just tons of potential.
Everyone was all a twitter, when Hanyu broke the sp record, but seems everyone would prefer to ignore Chan’s record breaking sp skate, and focus instead on the mistakes he made in his freeskate; go figure, perhaps if TV also showed the sp's like they used to, maybe there would be less controversy...
Instead of blaming Chan, or writing petitions, maybe the other guys should have all skated better. It’s not like Chan is the only skater getting a boost when he skates well, the Russian pairs team of V&T also got huge scores, even with mistakes, they wound up 20 pts higher than everyone else.
Hanyu the guy with the previous world highest SP score was 9th, Fernandez well back in 7th and Dai was 4th giving Dai the best chance of those most favored to take out Chan in the freeskate. Only Fernandez climbed out of the cellar with his 4th place long program and on to the podium with his 3rd place overall finish. Hanyu simply could not dig himself out of the giant hole even with the 3rd best long program of the night, not even with the help of skater’s like Dai, Joubert both tumbling back down the results column, it was not enough to lift Hanyu out of the hole he had dug for himself.
I was there in person and instead of the great contest I was hoping for, all the major contender's choked at some point, even Chan had some issues in his LP. Few contending men rose to the occasion, there were skater's who did beat their personal bests in the SP-- guys like Reynold's, Brezina, Joubert, Aaron to name a few. While Mura, Rogozine, Liebers, Ge etc., rose up did their PB in the long. There was a lot of cannon fodder too, a lot of men just came unglued in the freeskate. Experienced guys some former world champs like Dai and Joubert, also Brezina, Amodio, Song dropped like stones. Ten being under the radar with no expectations skated very, very well, achieving personal bests in both sp and lp. Ten had great Lori N. material to sell, and a respected coach at the boards helping to hold his nerve and hone his efforts, then again he did not have the huge pressure of expectation to carry out on to the ice either, just the confidence that came from his PB sp! Ten was not wearing the big target on his back, he was becomming “the little engine that could” quietly chugging up the track being cheered on by the spectator’s, but still well under the radar.
Most of the Men contender's succumbed to nerves. Patrick did his job well enough to create a new world record sp score and managed to hold the lead overall even with a sub par (for him) freeskate, which was still pretty good when compared to the rest of the field.
Whenever it is a very close decision in skating, the benefit of the doubt and thus the title usually goes to the past champion, defending is always considered tougher than chasing, that’s the way it has always been done. Ten was great, he certainly earned his silver medal, for sure; now let’s see what he can do next season with these new podium expectations, shall we?
No, judges are trained to make these types of calls for a good reason, fans can have opinions but as stated above "this ain't dancing with the stars or idol," we fans don't get a vote, and before starting petitions perhaps we all need to chill a bit and to reflect and review and ponder where all the hue and cry is comming from and what may be really motivating any controversy...
Wow 1800 words! Good job, Debrah.
“I am happy that it’s over. Happy that I did well.” Yu Na Kim
They are just using Denis Ten. Poor Denis!
Interesting interpretation of the facts.
Great Job Debrah.
Its absolutely as I saw it. Chan left the door open no one walked completed through. Ten just stood in the doorway.
Last edited by algonquin; 03-26-2013 at 08:31 PM.
Well, this is sad. Clearly some disgruntled fan has far too much time on his/her hands.
Do we have confidence that Davis and White rightfully won the free dance in London to Virtue and Moir or was it politicking and collusion among the judges? And if we agree they deserved to win that dance, do we have confidence they won by the right margin? I guess we will never know.I guess my problem with the system is that I see where Chan's scores may be justified, I see where Ten winning may be justified, but I don't have confidence that the numbers input by the judges are strictly based on the criteria and what they see on the ice, rather than being due to politiks and reputation. So I can't quite agree with people that say the result can be explained by reviewing the protocols or that all is fair because Ten won the LP (but did he win by the right margin?)
How many signatures does that petition need for Denis Ten to be awarded a second gold? Five hundred, five thousand or fifty thousand?