Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    47
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0

    Would Crone & Poirier have won a world medal/gold medal by now

    You have to wonder looking at the success of Weaver & Poje where Crone & Poirier would be now. Crone & Poirier always dominated Weaver & Poje when they used to compete, before splitting after a bad 2011 worlds. Would they have continued to be above them and had as much or even more success than Weaver & Poje. Would they have a world medal by now, or even improved enough to challenge Virtue & Moir as Canada's #1. We see Paul Poirier reach 8th in the world with a much weaker skater than Vanessa, and it seems to suggest alot for what they could have done had they stayed together.

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    2,050
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I think C&P would be higher ranked that Poirier with Gilles, and I always regret that they broke up, especially since they probably would have gone to Sochi along with V/M and W/P (nothing against P/I, though). I don't know about a world medal. If they had personal problems W&P may have still surpassed them.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    47
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    I think C&P would be higher ranked that Poirier with Gilles, and I always regret that they broke up, especially since they probably would have gone to Sochi along with V/M and W/P (nothing against P/I, though). I don't know about a world medal. If they had personal problems W&P may have still surpassed them.
    I always felt their break up was a knee jerk reaction to their dissapointing 10th place finish at the 2011 worlds. To see the Shibutanis who they usually beat win the bronze to their 10th, and Weaver & Poje who they had never lost to come 5th to their 10th, probably stung like heck. They should have given it atleast another season though, and see if their fortunes picked up again.

    While Vanessa is a much better technical skater with stronger basics (which helped their PCS comparatively) than Piper Gilles, her posture was pretty bad, and she was kind of sloppy in extensions and artistry. While Gilles is weaker overall, she is probably better in those particular areas.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    379
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Crone & Poirier always dominated Weaver & Poje when they used to compete,
    Uh, not really. They beat W/P by the barest of margins at Nationals in 2010 and 2011 but W/P were finishing higher internationally by then, not just at Worlds but also at GPF.

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    47
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by princeton123 View Post
    Uh, not really. They beat W/P by the barest of margins at Nationals in 2010 and 2011 but W/P were finishing higher internationally by then, not just at Worlds but also at GPF.
    The last part isnt true. Crone & Poirier beat Weaver & Poje for the bronze medal at the 2010 GPF, an event W&P have yet to medal in but C&P accomplished that year. Crone & Poirier also won Skate Canada that year, their first grand prix win, something also W&P have yet to accomplish, and qualifying to the GPF with more points than W&P, higher finishes, better scores, etc.... Crone & Poirier then beat Weaver & Poje for the Canadian title, yet another thing W&P have yet to accomplish. Crone & Poirier then again beat Weaver & Poje for a medal at the 2011 Four Continents Championships. 2011 Worlds was the only time since 2008 Canadians W&P finished ahead of C&P in a competition, or outdid them in any even indirect way internationally.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    379
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by kwanlysacek View Post
    The last part isnt true. Crone & Poirier beat Weaver & Poje for the bronze medal at the 2010 GPF, an event W&P have yet to medal in but C&P accomplished that year. Crone & Poirier also won Skate Canada that year, their first grand prix win, something also W&P have yet to accomplish, and qualifying to the GPF with more points than W&P, higher finishes, better scores, etc.... Crone & Poirier then beat Weaver & Poje for the Canadian title, yet another thing W&P have yet to accomplish. Crone & Poirier then again beat Weaver & Poje for a medal at the 2011 Four Continents Championships. 2011 Worlds was the only time since 2008 Canadians W&P finished ahead of C&P in a competition, or outdid them in any even indirect way internationally.
    Whoops, you're right about GPF.

    Your point about C/P's Skate Canada and Nationals wins come with a giant asterisk though. IMO, W/P deserved the 2011 title and C/P were always so incredibly overscored. Even in spite of that, there was never a huge gap between them. W/P were closing in on them by 2011 Worlds and it's not out of the question to think they would've overtaken them. W/P were one of the, if not the, most improved teams of the last quad.

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    No crone would have kept them back. Incidentally crone is an unfortunate last name for a young lady to have in a glamorous sport like ice dance.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    47
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Well in theory Crone & Poirier should have improved as much, or more. They were super young at that point.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Age
    64
    Posts
    616
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5912
    I believe they could have been real contenders by now but something was just off that last season. It seemed to start with such a bang with the Eleanor Rigby program and then not really develop at all. Perhaps it was due to issues between the two of them. I was watching some of their old programs and they were so very good together. I have to say I loved Crone and Poirier and Weaver and Poje and had hoped they would both be around for a long time but that was not to be. Paul seems genuinely happy with Piper, they are improving as a pair and have a bright future. It is too bad Vanessa was not able to continue with another partner - not sure if she wanted to but I thought there were some efforts to find someone appropriate for her but nothing developed.
    pug lover

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    810
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    No crone would have kept them back. Incidentally crone is an unfortunate last name for a young lady to have in a glamorous sport like ice dance.
    The fact that some skating fans used to make comments about her looks probably didn't help her self-esteem, either.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    That's sad if people made public comments about her looks. You know the definition of a crone is an evil looking, old woman, which made her name kind of a punch line. She was neither crone-like nor unattractive. I thought she lacked glamour in her image, but that was incidental and only because of her hair and make up. She was athletic, and I am positive she was good in the looks department. As an admirer of Paul's skating, I think he needed a different partner. The chemistry was not dynamic. Really, though, people should give constructive criticism because she was a lovely girl physically.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    6,872
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    88942
    I just wish she could have found another partner. I think though that she was pretty shaken up by the split. I got the impression in was a shock to her.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    87
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Paul Poirier probably would have made the Olympic team had he stayed with Vanessa Crone (barely as the #3) but they would have finished lower than the 8th Gilles & Poirier managed at worlds this year, and their future prospects moving ahead would be less if it was still Crone & Poirier. That team was definitely not headed to a world podium the way things were going. They were passed by a flood of teams and came 10th at the 2011 worlds where many thought they would medal. That is not being on the up.

    Paul is a pretty talented dancer although not as talented as Canadians hype him to be. You would think he was Scott Moir level talent or more the way they potray him. I dont think he is even more talented than Andrew Poje or Mitchell Islam for instance. Vanessa is probably a better and more talented dancer than Piper, but also not by as much as Canadians potray. She had awful posture and not much artistry, and Gilles has more artistry and a nicer look (I dont mean physical looks) on the ice, even if weaker basics and weaker technical ability. Either one was the weaker link in the partnership with Paul. Piper & Paul have way more chemistry with each other though, probably since they get along better alot more off the ice, and since she isnt that much weaker than Vanessa as an individual dancer, that makes them a better team in the long run as she works hard to keep improving.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    810
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    There's no way to know how any former team would do today. It's interesting to speculate (that's the purpose of skating threads of course) but it's not a question that can be answered.

    As for Paul Poirier, I'd say he's a stronger ice dancer than Mitchell Islam at this point, but Islam can close the gap. Part of that is just that Islam has far less experience. Poirier has been to 5 Worlds, and Islam only 1. Poirier used to be a stronger skater than Poje when he was with Crone and W&P were less experienced, but the huge strides made by W&P in recent years mean that Poje is probably stronger now.

    I was sad to see C&P split up since I'd seen them skate as kids, but we can't expect all young teams to stay together forever the way V&M and D&W did. These kids are under a lot of pressure and there's no point in them staying together if their personal relationships deteriorate. I get the sense that Crone has a few self-esteem issues as a result of people saying she wasn't as attractive as other ice dance girls, wasn't pretty enough to be Paul's partner, etc. I took a look at her Twitter recently and she's always tweeting self-help messages and inspirational guidelines. She seems to be back at school now and also taking a coaching course, so I think she's getting back on track. It's kind of a journey you have to go on yourself. Paul was only 19 when they split up, and he was probably too young at that age to figure out all those issues together. I also get the sense that Vanessa didn't have as close a relationship with coach Carol Lane as Paul does.

    Anyway, I agree with what several other people above have observed. Paul seems to have a very good off-ice friendship with Piper. I've noticed from their photos and videos on Twitter/Facebook, etc. that they travel together, go on vacation to Piper's family in Colorado, etc. I don't think Paul & Vanessa had that type of relationship anymore. So this one is off to a good start.

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    12,332
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    So sad they broke up. Paul Poirier is a fantastic skater, and seems to be a smart guy.
    I like Pipper Gilles, but Crone&Poirier would have done so much better than Gilles&Poirier.

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    810
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Some ice dance fans say they wish Crone & Poirier were still together, but those two grew apart and their personal relationship had deteriorated. Most observers say Gilles & Poirier have better chemistry and are closer friends. C&P had fallen to 10th at this time in 2011. After a lackluster result by G&P at 2013 Worlds, they have now risen to 8th. So since they've got a better relationship than C&P did, they might have the potential to do better than C&P. So the new partnership seems to have been the right decision.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •