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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by my little pony View Post
    this article smells a little desperate and defensive
    YOU SMELL DESPERATE AND DEFENSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Why? The author if the article is making up lies. There is probably only one competition everyone can agree on that Michelle probably should not have won, and that is Skate America in 1999 where she received a 6.0 for a program with a fall, and nationalism was not even a factor in that competition because the skater who "suffered" from her being held up was Sarah Hughes, another American.
    Hughes' free skate at 1999 Skate America was a disaster. She fell at least twice. There's a case to be made for Hughes at 2001 Skate America, however, and that was a controversial win for Kwan.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Why? The author if the article is making up lies. There is probably only one competition everyone can agree on that Michelle probably should not have won, and that is Skate America in 1999 where she received a 6.0 for a program with a fall, and nationalism was not even a factor in that competition because the skater who "suffered" from her being held up was Sarah Hughes, another American.
    I think you are thinking of another Skate America, because while it's true that Michelle received a 6.0 for her free skate with a fall, it was a clearly superior program -- Sarah Hughes' free skate was only fourth (Soldatova and Sokolova placed 2nd and 3rd). So perhaps you were thinking of Skate America 2001 -- I seem to recall there being a lot of "outrage" about that result in some quarters (Sarah Hughes was 2nd).
    Lady 2: there isn't anything about me on goooogle, I mean, I must take it off if there is.....
    Lady 3: The google is a terrible thing, I mean I don't want anything on there! (Overheard by millyskate on a London train.)

  4. #44

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    Kwan could not have lost the LP to the skater 2nd or 3rd in the SP and won.

    Kwan's 5.9s and 6.0s were rankings, not cumulative points.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Kwan was not winning titles with 4 mistakes. Her strength was in delivering a near perfect SP& LP every time. That's what won her those 5 world titles. This is not even close.
    THANK YOU! She was one of the most reliable athletes ever. Was she held up in Nagano?

  6. #46

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  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by kosjenka View Post
    When did Kwan fall and win world titles?

    I am geting too old, I simply cannot remember.
    Just a fall out of a double axel in 98.... She was usually very clean when she won her World Titles. In fact a few times (2 maybe) she was coming from behind and other skaters had to make mistakes. This writer is a joke.
    Last edited by jdonavan; 03-23-2013 at 02:04 AM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdonavan View Post
    Just a fall out of a double axel in 98.... She was usually very clean when she won her World Titles. In fact a few times (2 maybe) she was coming from behind and other skaters had to make mistakes. This writer is a joke.
    Exactly in 2000 and 2001 she had to skate lights out with a triple-triple, 7 triples, amazing speed, and artistry and still wait for Irina and Maria to make mistakes, and in 2000 finish in the right order to boot, to win. Her performances were worthy of 5.9s technically and 6.0s artistically but due to a number of factors didnt get a single one in either. In 1996 she had to beat one of the all time great performances by Chen and throw an extra triple at the end to do it. 1998 was the only Worlds she won with an imperfect skate, but still a very good one, and it was a weakish Worlds that year.

    As a Canadian I can tell you that Cam Cole is a notorious Kwan hater though. In 2005 after Irina's 2nd World title he wrote that atleast 3 of Michelle's World title should have gone to Irina (thus atleast 3 out of 1996, 1998, 2000, and 2001, though I highly doubt he gave that statement any in depth thought or any particular years, and just pulled it out of his ass). He griped about her scores on many other occasions and talked about her spell on the judges. He even once implied the only difference between Jennifer Robinson and Michelle was hype and judging favortism. He isnt really much of a skating expert, he also whined for years Elvis Stojko was grossly undermarked (while I respect Stojko greatly, some have suggested the opposite at times).

    If Chan were scored like Michelle Kwan his only World title would have been 2011 (which is how it should have been anyway).

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan5 View Post
    I think you are thinking of another Skate America, because while it's true that Michelle received a 6.0 for her free skate with a fall, it was a clearly superior program [snip] (Soldatova and Sokolova placed 2nd and 3rd).
    All I want to say is in that competition (Skate America 1999), Kwan could've fallen three times and I still probably would've placed her over Soldatova.

  10. #50

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    Kwan deserved all her World and National titles, really, no contest.

    There was definitely some controversy over her first-place finishes in the 1998 and 2002 short programs - especially 2002 - but she's also been low-balled on marks, like the 2000 Worlds freeskate and 2001-02 Grand Prix Final.
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

  11. #51
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    Mr. Cole writes

    It (inflated scores) wasn't killing figure skating when an American (Kwan) was the beneficiary.
    Um...that's right, it wasn't.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Aside: Did the term 'Chanflation' originate here on FSU or elsewhere, anyone know? The earliest usage of the word here was by Rob during 2010 U.S. Nationals, and I believe it referred to Chan's nationally inflated scores at 2010 Canadians?

    ETA:
    1 Patrick Chan CO 90.14 177.88 268.02
    (No quad attempts in either program and the competition took place in... London, Ontario.)
    I had never seen it used before when I used it. But I can't be positive I was the first one to make it up- I don't go on other boards. There was a lot of discussion in the Canadian Nats thread about Patrick's scores being inflated. in defense of Patrick, someone said something like "scores are inflated at every country's Nationals; just watch and you will see that the US men scores will be just as inflated." Jeremy skated the SP early and very well and got a big score, but not as big as Patrick's. So I said Not Chanflation but it is early.it definitely was about Nationals inflation. Then it took on a life of its own. Sorry Patrick.
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  13. #53
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    Kwan's performance of her Red Violin FS at the 1999 Skate America was sublime, and I can see why it deserved a 6.0 for artistry. Everything flowed so well and just felt so right; aside from the fall on the flip and the iffy landing on the loop, it really was perfect and I actually prefer the performance aspect of it to the one she delivered at Worlds. On the TV broadcast, they actually showed a shot of Hughes watching with her coach immediately after Kwan had finished and Hughes looked totally blown away by what she had witnessed, so I doubt I'm alone in my opinion and that Hughes felt she was cheated of the title.

  14. #54

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    Kwan was somewhat hit and miss with me, some years I loved her skating, other years I found her incredibly ::. That being said she was on the World podium so often,as many others have already posted, because she was a consistent skater period.
    But I think my real issue with the article when it comes to "inflation" is that it ignores that under the Ordinal system which Kwan competed , marks were placeholders and nothing more. Under OBO, if one judge gave her a 5.9 and all the rest of the judges gave her 5.7s, yet that judge has her ranked in line with what the rest of the judges did, that judge's "overscoring" doesn't really count for much. It could have been that the judge in question merely had base marks of.2 higher across the board.
    In Patrick Chan's case, criticisms hold a bit more water because we're dealing with real numbers.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post


    an excerpt from the article:


    read the full thing here:

    http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/w...443/story.html

    an almost identical article (except for slight differences in 1 small section)
    http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/A...594/story.html



    Quote Originally Posted by jamesy View Post
    We are ready to bust out store windows and flip cars over.


    I think Kwanita (Mrs. Pell) would soundly disapprove of such behavior, jamesy. After all, she's the U.S. State Department's Public Diplomacy Envoy.

    In any case, even while competing within the sport, MK was head-and-shoulders above it. These days, she's quite clearly beyond it and successfully involved with other life-changing pursuits. Apparently, the sport itself can't ever forget her or get beyond her pure and hard-won magnificence. Kween will probably continue to be the touchstone, the standard, the unifier and the divider, the victor, the vilified yet respected, the one-and-only, the reason and the excuse for everything that gets detractors' and ubers' blood boiling ... PURPLE!

    AFAIK, Chan and Kwan have in common the fact of their Chinese heritage, and that they are both human beings, and that they are both hard-working champion figure skaters. Probably any other resemblance or similarity especially in terms of their skating competitions and careers is a coincidental figment of the writer's imagination.


    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    YOU SMELL DESPERATE AND DEFENSIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Tsk, tsk Peter! That's not even close to being subtle!


    Speaking of smelly smells, I'm getting more than a whiff of something rotten and smelly decomposing in the state of figure skating.
    Last edited by aftershocks; 03-24-2013 at 08:45 AM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    Speaking of smelly smells, I'm getting more than a whiff of something rotten and smelly decomposing in the state of figure skating.
    Especially in Denmark I hear.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    Kwan deserved all her World and National titles, really, no contest.

    There was definitely some controversy over her first-place finishes in the 1998 and 2002 short programs - especially 2002 - but she's also been low-balled on marks, like the 2000 Worlds freeskate and 2001-02 Grand Prix Final.
    I never remember a controversy over her OLY sp in 98. She won the judges 8-1.

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    Yeah sorry, I was thinking of 2001 Skate America, not 1999. People all over the place were in an uproar because Sarah did not win and the media was acting like Michelle made herself win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UGG View Post
    Yeah sorry, I was thinking of 2001 Skate America, not 1999. People all over the place were in an uproar because Sarah did not win and the media was acting like Michelle made herself win.
    Actually both SA 2000 and 2001 involved a flawed Kwan beating a clean Hughes. At the time I felt Kwan deserved the win both years. I am much more convinced about that now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    I never remember a controversy over her OLY sp in 98. She won the judges 8-1.
    IMO the only controversy over the 1998 SP was putting Tara over Maria. The 2nd mark was especially ridiculous as Maria was miles more mature & her Fever program was IMO her best SP to that point - much better than the Swiss Miss program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Actually both SA 2000 and 2001 involved a flawed Kwan beating a clean Hughes. At the time I felt Kwan deserved the win both years. I am much more convinced about that now.
    Me too. Sarah had some severe issues in many aspects of her skating. The fact that she stayed on her feet during her (cheated, pre-rotated) jumps wasn't enough to win. In fact, many of her placements were iffy to me. In fact, the 2001 GPF is the only time (including the 2002 Olys) I thought her win over Michelle & Irina was appropriate.

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