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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    Ahha... so do I.
    Plushyta is right.. You don't know anything, if you would be his fan or would follow him, you would know the truth. But what a perfect weapon against Plush!! right?

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Win cannot refer to winning a medal - it says "Patrick Chan did not win" so if it refers to a medal then it makes even less sense, and as to winning hearts? Are you seriously trying to suggest that Plushenko meant, Patrick Chan did not win the heart of the audience, but his skating federation did? FFS I knew the ubers were batshit crazy but this crazy??
    You know you shouldn't look, but there is a certain morbid fascination, isn't there?
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  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by just tuned in View Post
    Plushenko is a jumper, not an artist, so I am not surprised that he awards HIS prize to clean jumps (but just in the LP, not SP?)

    I would be very interested to know if ever there was a competition in which Plushenko competed and he said that he himself did not deserve to medal.
    Different people, different tastes - for example, Weir thinks that Chan has no "artistry", while Plushy has..

    And when Plushenko did not deserve a medal? ... specifically, which competition?

    --------------------------

    And I do not know, why Plushenko's fans are disqualified in advance, to give objective comments?

    His haters are better? I dont think so - for example, they just throw their own opinion, as generally accepted axiom... by me, they write just to deliver its a negative label on Plushy...

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emdee View Post
    I too enjoyed Plushy in his early days but artist .... he has never been - super athlete for sure. His jumps were a thing of beauty and the goal standard for others.
    Now Yags - he had the full package!
    Quote Originally Posted by just tuned in View Post
    Plushenko is a jumper, not an artist, so I am not surprised that he awards HIS prize to clean jumps (but just in the LP, not SP?)
    I would be very interested to know if ever there was a competition in which Plushenko competed and he said that he himself did not deserve to medal.
    Please! Could we just get rid of stupid cliches once for all, especially cliches invented on forums? Do you think Plushenko knows if he's an artist or a jumper, I bet that if you ask him, he'd say he's a figure skater.
    He said nothing about clean jumps but about clean performance and even I don't agree with him and I think Chan deserved the title, he has the right to express his opinion.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyta View Post
    And when Plushenko did not deserve a medal? ... specifically, which competition?
    This was rhetorical. About how Plushenko always thinks he is the best at everything. If he falls, it is okay because [insert Plushenko's reason here]!

    Quote Originally Posted by plushyta View Post
    Different people, different tastes - for example, Weir thinks that Chan has no "artistry", while Plushy has..

    Thank you for sharing that information about Weir. I am not sure if I am surprised or not, that he prefers Plushenko to Chan. I like Weir as a skater -- and I don't mean to censor anyone -- but he, too, is very active on Twitter for someone who is not competing currently. For example, Weir bowed out of US Nationals this year because he said (paraphrasing) he was not in shape enough to win. Then, after Nationals, he said (paraphrasing) that if he competed, he would have done well.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by just tuned in View Post
    This was rhetorical. About how Plushenko always thinks he is the best at everything. If he falls, it is okay because [insert Plushenko's reason here]!


    Thank you for sharing that information about Weir. I am not sure if I am surprised or not, that he prefers Plushenko to Chan. I like Weir as a skater -- and I don't mean to censor anyone -- but he, too, is very active on Twitter for someone who is not competing currently. For example, Weir bowed out of US Nationals this year because he said (paraphrasing) he was not in shape enough to win. Then, after Nationals, he said (paraphrasing) that if he competed, he would have done well.
    I wrote in these pages not once. Maya Plisetskaya the most famous ballet dancer said about Plushy:

    Maya P.- He is our favourite. He is so good that it looks like nobody can beat him. I can't imagine who can be better. He is a master, a great master who does everything beautifully, brilliantly and artistically. Also, he always looks so confident that we, his fans, cannot be not confident. He skates like an artist who knows that he is the best. Other skaters think that they are good too, but they have doubts and get nervous. Plushenko on the contrary always knows that he is much better than others, and he convinces all of us in it. He not just "works" on ice, he dances on ice masterly, and that is a wonderful thing to see.

    E.S.- What do you think about his appearance?

    Maya P.- I think his appearance is fine. He is tall, striking, with a handsome body and long arms. He is not some cute guy from the postcard, thanks god he is not!, but he has the perfect face for the stage. The ice is the stage too.

    I think she knows what is the art...

    and I agree with Johnny...Chan does not express anything at face and body, he is a very good skater, but no more for me. I don't feel anything when he skates, he does not show emotions. In Chan is only "skating skills" as many people say. He skates with the same expression on his face from beginning to end of the program, and he deserves high marks for interpretation...????
    Last edited by lala; 03-21-2013 at 04:06 PM.

  7. #167

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    Quote Originally Posted by plushyta View Post
    Different people, different tastes - for example, Weir thinks that Chan has no "artistry", while Plushy has..

    And when Plushenko did not deserve a medal? ... specifically, which competition?
    ...
    Since you ask, I would have placed him 4th or 5th in Vancouver.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    and I agree with Johnny...Chan does not express anything at face and body, he is a very good skater, but no more for me. I don't feel anything when he skates, he does not show emotions. In Chan is only "skating skills" as many people say. He skates with the same expression on his face from beginning to end of the program, and he deserves high marks for interpretation...????
    IMO, expression comes from the body, not the face.

    These are just my opinions, and yes, I prefer Chan (and Taka and Abbott and Buttle): When Chan skates, I hold my breath at the beauty of it. Not so much for Plushenko.

  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by just tuned in View Post
    This was rhetorical. About how Plushenko always thinks he is the best at everything. If he falls, it is okay because [insert Plushenko's reason here]!
    And how is this different from Chan?

    My impression is that even Chan's mistakes are used as evidence of his superiority - because they show how difficult his programs are! I believe that great skaters can make even difficult things look easy, and Chan often doesn't. FWIW, neither does Plushenko; the effort is always apparent. But he does make fewer mistakes than most skaters.
    Last edited by Zemgirl; 03-21-2013 at 05:31 PM.

  10. #170
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    There is no question that Plushenko makes few mistakes but his choreography to me is wanting.
    So much easier to skate a program with less choreo than one that is choc a bloc with transitions and other choreographic twists, turns etc.He takes a long time to set up for his 'perfect' jumps.

    I nevertheless admire him for his consistency, beautiful jumps and the condition of his body ( for his age).

  11. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by just tuned in View Post
    Plushenko is a jumper, not an artist, so I am not surprised that he awards HIS prize to clean jumps (but just in the LP, not SP?)

    I would be very interested to know if ever there was a competition in which Plushenko competed and he said that he himself did not deserve to medal.
    I guess many of us don't have the taste to appreciate the great art and performance qualities of Patrick falling all over the ice.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    I wrote in these pages not once. Maya Plisetskaya the most famous ballet dancer said about Plushy:

    Maya P.- He is our favourite. He is so good that it looks like nobody can beat him. I can't imagine who can be better. He is a master, a great master who does everything beautifully, brilliantly and artistically. Also, he always looks so confident that we, his fans, cannot be not confident. He skates like an artist who knows that he is the best. Other skaters think that they are good too, but they have doubts and get nervous. Plushenko on the contrary always knows that he is much better than others, and he convinces all of us in it. He not just "works" on ice, he dances on ice masterly, and that is a wonderful thing to see.

    Thanks for the quote! I didn't know Maya Plisetskaya thought so highly of Plushenko's performance. She is my all time goddess, I am actually surprised that she watches figure skating like the rest of us human being!

    In my mind, no one can be more qualified than Maya Plisetskaya when it comes to judging performance art.

  13. #173
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    My opinion of Maya Plisetskaya's judgment suffered when she complimented Alina Somova & presented her with diamond earrings for a "brilliant" career. This takes it down a notch further.
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    I think some of you need to take a good look at what it actually taking place ON the ice instead of wuz-robbing and yelling CHANFLATION every time Chan wins.
    I would suggest you do the same.

    As for what was "on the ice," well, I saw Chan's *ss on it (twice), as well as his hands...

    How many other winning Worlds performances can you say that about?
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by skateboy View Post
    As for what was "on the ice," well, I saw Chan's *ss on it (twice), as well as his hands...

    How many other winning Worlds performances can you say that about?
    It's so unfortunate that you only focus your eyes on that specific part of his body while he's skating. Have you noticed how long has that specific part touched ice out of 4 and a half minutes?

  16. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    It's so unfortunate that you only focus your eyes on that specific part of his body while he's skating.
    And it's unfortunate that you can't see that the Emperor has no clothes...

    Again, name a world championship winning men's performance with as many errors, please. You can't.

    I'm not a Chan hater. When he's on, there's no one like him. But this was a farce.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  17. #177

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    Holy crap, well that escalated quickly.

    I think everyone needs a big, heaping dose of simmer the F down. Half of the posts in this thread are people screaming about like a madman/madwoman instead of thoughtful, factual posts.

    While I appreciate the passion, I (and I'm not speaking for everyone) would rather read concise and intelligent conversations than direct insults to people in every 4th post. You can disagree with someone without being an ass about it...

    I don't think Chan deserved the win, but I also don't blame him for it, nor do I blame Skate Canada. I blame the judges, and I blame IJS, and I blame the judges for manipulating the IJS. Just like the "jumps aren't everything" arguments, transitions and skating skills aren't everything either. I believe Denis Ten had a better combination of technical and artistry when spread between the short program and free skate than Chan did. Regardless, I congratulate Chan on his 3rd world title, and Ten on an amazing achievement. And I hope that the next champion doesn't have a shadow like this hanging over his gold medal.
    "You may know what you need, but to get what you want better see that you keep what you have." ~ Stephen Sondheim

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by just tuned in View Post
    IMO, expression comes from the body, not the face.

    These are just my opinions, and yes, I prefer Chan (and Taka and Abbott and Buttle): When Chan skates, I hold my breath at the beauty of it. Not so much for Plushenko.
    Well, this is matter of taste...If you mentioned Abbott I find him extremly boring...sorry, especially in this year. I'm sure if Plushenko wants to be like Abbott, he can be. The expressivity begins in this performance, look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO1DO2h6130 please,..maybe you will undertand what I'm talking about..


    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    My opinion of Maya Plisetskaya's judgment suffered when she complimented Alina Somova & presented her with diamond earrings for a "brilliant" career. This takes it down a notch further.
    Irrelevant..

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Irrelevant..
    Completely relevant: it speaks to judgement and taste.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGreen View Post
    Thanks for the quote! I didn't know Maya Plisetskaya thought so highly of Plushenko's performance. She is my all time goddess, I am actually surprised that she watches figure skating like the rest of us human being!

    In my mind, no one can be more qualified than Maya Plisetskaya when it comes to judging performance art.
    If you haven't seen: two parts of a documentary 2006 Portrait of the star. Artist on ice 10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLcyg-KW3I0 and Artist on ice 11. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBqGEGsRigc with english subtitle. The speaker is Nikolai Tsiskaridze, he was principal dancer in Bolshoi. He is also a fan of Plushenko

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