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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    He didn't say he could provide proof just his experience as a skater for so long. Where do all the people who are saying he was overscored think the overscoring is coming from. At lest he went a little more specific than others. And other famous skaters too.
    That "a little more specific than others" made him look so stupid while others were not.

    Quote Originally Posted by ks1227 View Post
    Honestly, Plushenko's complaints about Skate Canada are fairly ridiculous. Someone needs to learn to read protocols.
    Plushy team is still trying to figure out the transitions. Hasn't had time to learn to read protocols yet.

  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    The only comedy are the minority of Chantards so stupid like yourself that think only the minority feels that way. Something so extreme that even journalists and the skater himself feels he needs to weigh in and defend himself, and that is a minority causing that, ROTFL!! You attempt to speak of me but really speak of yourself, as you are the real comedy relief around here, and what is special about you is that you dont even need to try at it, it just happens naturally while trying to pass off your so called knowledge on something.
    What a funny post.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Obviously it's there but what does it say that two 5.00 doesn't happen again until below 21st??
    It says that there were two anti-quad activists on the panel who would have handed the gold to Samuel Contesti if they thought they could get away with it.

    Next question.

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    Hahahaaaa
    Of course, he was not flawless, but Joubert had just a double turn at the end of his Quad/Triple combo, late in the program. Not a fall before jumping.
    I won't discuss if Joubert was better or not, I don't care. But it's your opinion (and judges', as it was judges opinion to put Chan over Ten here).
    Yes but Plushenko fell once. He didn't fall twice and then have another big stumble/almost fall and the another double...The stumble was extremely distracting too.. A great performance IMO can withstand one fall. Nobody's saying you fall you can absolutely 100% never win.

    But what people are taking issue with is the type of PCS Patrick is getting with multiple errors in his program. And I'm sorry I have a hard time thinking politics isn't playing a role in this. Look at the kind of PCS hit other skaters get when they give bad programs...

    Its like one standard for Patrick another for others.

    Plushenko never won with that type of performance. And as for Plushenko losing the Olympics-what does have to do with anything. Plushenko's on record saying he doesn't see himself winning Olympic Gold this time. He's certainly allowed to have opinion though don't you think.
    Last edited by bek; 03-21-2013 at 04:39 AM.

  5. #125
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    I don't think Chan to skate like a champion, but I don't think Ten deserves to be a champion either. He needs to improve himself in many ways.
    There're no shining prgms that night at Men's competition in London, so I have rather not give anyone the title. It's weird.. but anyway considering short program, I can accept the result.

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dyu View Post
    I don't think Chan to skate like a champion, but I don't think Ten deserves to be a champion either. He need to improve himself in many ways.
    There're no shining prgms that night at Men's competition in London, so I have rather not give anyone the title. It's weird.. but anyway considering short program, I can accept the result.
    How does Ten have to improve himself? Look, I think there are things that Denis has to work on, I don't know if I'd say its the best performance I've ever seen from a man. However, Denis is an absolutely wonderful skater. His skating skills may not be at Chan's level but they are extremely good. He has good spins, wonderful jumps landed a quad and (two triple axels that Chan didn't do.) And he gave very good performances. He would hardly be the worst world champion the sport has ever seen. He's really a beautiful skater.

    In the end it should be about who was the best at the competition. Not whose been the best in years past. Not who is the best in practice. But who skated the best that competition.
    Last edited by bek; 03-21-2013 at 04:36 AM.

  7. #127

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    Well, I'm not sure it's a minority that agrees with Plushenko about this, many people are upset by this result, including me.

    I can't help but think that we would have better results if IJS remained the same, with one change (from the old 6.0 system): factored placements in the SP and LP.

    My idea: keep the scoring the same for the SP, adding up the points and all that. Do the same for the LP. But rather than simply adding up both scores together, take the factored placements from the SP (1st=0.5, 2nd=1.0, etc.) and the factored placements from the LP (1st=1.0, 2nd=2.0, etc.), add those up and we have a winner!

    It seems weird that someone can win based on the SP, especially when the same two skaters are the top two in both SP and LP. I like the idea of the SP being worth a third of the score, the LP two-thirds. Chan won the SP, Ten got second. Ten won the LP, Chan got second. Somehow (with the same two skaters duking it out), it seems like a win in the long should trump a win in the short. JMO.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    In the end it should be about who was the best at the competition. Not whose been the best in years past. Not who is the best in practice. But who skated the best that competition.
    This. Either the current judging system is flawed, or the judges are not judging the way they should be. Heck, Salt Lake City was nothing compared to this. I am not advocating the return of 6.0, but COP needs some major tweaking before this explodes.

  9. #129
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    Seven pages of arguing based on the opinion of a man who declared himself the 2010 Olympic platinum medalist. It concerns me that he is still considered with enough respect to render his views worth mentioning.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier cat View Post
    We look many people blame Chan when he wins. It's because Chan wins often with big errors. If he won with clean programs, nobody would yell anything.
    Nah, then there'd be yelling that he was overscored and shouldn't have won by such a large margin

    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Yep, I do. Under the old system, Russian federation seemed to have some power over some judges but under the new system, Skate Canada seems to have that over them.
    Or maybe Canada has just embraced the system instead of fighting it? Chan maximizes his points. I don't really think you can fault a skater for studying the rules and finding ways to use them to his advantage. Plush could do the same if he wanted.

    You (collective chanflation supporters, not those I've quoted) can argue PCS all you want but then (as TonyWheeler pointed out) you also have to argue the inflated PCS for other skaters like Aaron, Joubert, Reynolds, Brezina and probably others if I bothered to look.
    "Beautiful things don't ask for attention." -The Secret Life of Walter Mitty

  11. #131
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    so why can' Chan skate.
    a fall free program at worlds, he seems to do it at his nationals more than one time. shows he can but worlds not so mucht

  12. #132
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    I wonder if the Chanatics have found any polyps while they are all up in there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MysticHaze View Post
    I wonder if the Chanatics have found any polyps while they are all up in there.
    I think they were looking for the sun.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  14. #134

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan04 View Post
    Seven pages of arguing based on the opinion of a man who declared himself the 2010 Olympic platinum medalist. It concerns me that he is still considered with enough respect to render his views worth mentioning.
    He did not declare himself the platinum medalist. And he's one of the most accomplished skaters ever, and it's hardly a surprise his comments would be of interest to people. It concerns me that you feel your lack of respect for a skater means he should be ignored.

    This thread is all sorts of

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post

    A lot of Plushenko's high scores came from delivering the program with confidence, and whether you agree or not, expressing the music.
    Transitions are 1/5 of the Program Components score. Delivering the program with confidence covers a few bullet points in PE and possibly one of CH (use of personal and public space) and expressing the music is only one part of interpretation. Some notable misses apart from transitions were master of one-footed skating (outside the step sequences), mastery of multi-directional skating, and pattern and ice coverage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I am glad that transitions are getting credit now, but when a skater falls due to transitions, that's not worthy of high marks.
    Transitions cover all movements from element to element and in and out of elements. Chan fell twice among scores of transitions in his program, a very low percentage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    It was more of a silly fall, and not on an element, I think he was setting up for a jump at the time. That's not comparable to the multiple errors that Chan made this year - more like Trankov splatting after the throw in the LP, and nobody is complaining about that result.
    No, wiping out on the entrance to an element, in this case a jump, means no credit for the element in both systems (or at least was supposed to under 6.0), unlike Trankov falling after the element, and Plushenko was missing a jump pass in his 2004 Worlds FS. Missing jump vs. flawed landing by Joubert was not supposed to cancel each other out under either system.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Yeah he got fives in Vancouver Which wasn't seen seen again until below 20th place. Judges gave him 5.0 for transitions so he was scored below everyone else in the top 20!! A top 20 that had others with minimal transitions!
    Judges gave Plushy 5.0 for TR before. I think it is okay. After that he improved a little bit in that field. However judges always give Chan the highest SS, even when he skates badly. As if his skating skills are untouchable. But IMO this is a sport. So it would be better he should be given lower when he failed many times. IN - even when he fell a lot and broke beautiful musical movement, still he receives high score. And I feel like I left in doubt. PE - even when he fell a lot, judges see his Performance and Execution are perfect beyond all doubt. CH - even when he fell a lot, judges believe his choreography never spoil by many fallings. All components he gets always 8.50 or 9.00, even higher. But I think when someone lacks or broke something, the person shouldn't be given 8.5 or 9.5 like TR.
    I have been thinking like this. Also Todd posted his opinion like mine. I am a bit glad to know I'm not only one who could not understand Patrick's always-high PCS.
    Last edited by Glacier cat; 03-21-2013 at 09:02 AM.

  17. #137
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    Based on Plushenko´s own skating programmes I have gotten the impression that he (and perhaps other oldtimers, especially Weir) does not understand CoP programmes at all. So, his opinion of who should have won in any competition, is not something that means anything to me.

    In my opinion Chan had the most complex choreography and although he fell twice and had some other mistakes as well, he still deserved to win against Ten, especially considering Chan´s strong sp. And rightfully Ten won the freeskate. The result was veeeery close and if Ten had done one jump differently, he would have won!

    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    The judges were supposed to be judging what was on the ice and he was the only one in the top 20 to get 2 5.00 's. He brought Joubert into his comment and Joubert didn't get two 5.00. Plushenko was underscored in the way that judges went out of their way to go under the corridor they set for him to give him 2 5.00's and one 6.00.
    Yes, he got two 5´s in sp, he also got a 8.75 and a 8.00, the latter ones he did not deserve at all. In FS his transitions scores were between 6.00-8.75, and the higher ones he did not deserve for THAT programme. He also got two 9´s for the FS choreography (which choreography??).
    Last edited by Jaana; 03-21-2013 at 09:18 AM.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatingfan04 View Post
    Seven pages of arguing based on the opinion of a man who declared himself the 2010 Olympic platinum medalist. It concerns me that he is still considered with enough respect to render his views worth mentioning.

    So someone who has perservered in a physically very difficult sport until the unheard of age of 30, winning everything there is to win, does not deserve respect? Considering that he is one of the skaters with the most titles ever, I would imagine that he is considered a bit more expert in this field than all the sit-at-home critics on this forum.

  19. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier cat View Post
    Judges gave Plushy 5.0 for TR before. I think it is okay. After that he improved a little bit in that field. However judges always give Chan the highest SS, even when he skates badly. As if his skating skills are untouchable. But IMO this is a sport. So it would be better he should be given lower when he failed many times. IN - even when he fell a lot and broke beautiful musical movement, still he receives high score. And I feel like I left in doubt. PE - even when he fell a lot, judges see his Performance and Execution are perfect beyond all doubt. CH - even when he fell a lot, judges believe his choreography never spoil by many fallings. All components he gets always 8.50 or 9.00, even higher. But I think when someone lacks or broke something, the person shouldn't be given 8.5 or 9.5 like TR.
    I have been thinking like this. Also Todd posted his opinion like mine. I am a bit glad to know I'm not only one who could not understand Patrick's always-high PCS.
    Chan's SS mark not being affected by falls is a misperception, Glacier cat. Chan with no falls at Cup of Russia scored 9.46 on SS as opposed to 9.11 at Worlds and I could continue with his scores for the other components.
    That falls are not punished severely enough? Okay, let the ISU punish them more harshly but we might well see a situation where Takahashi with a fall or two finishes behind a clean Peter Liebers or Hanyu with falls finishes behind a clean Andrei Rogozine or Kostner with falls finishes behind a clean Meite and so on. Even Plushenko, yes, he has been a much more consistent jumper than the current generation of skaters but he is not a robot who has never ever fallen at all in his entire career and you don't know when falls can occur. What if Plushenko fell at the next Nationals and the Russian judges had to apply a much harsher international punishment for falls and Plushenko finished behind a clean Menshov? Menshov would go to the Olympics, not Plushenko, no?

    Plushenko is definitely entitled to an opinion about who should have won the World Championships, just like Todd Eldredge for that matter, but a person - no matter who that person is - writing on twitter that skater X didn't deserve to win without providing any detailed explanation or analysis to support his/her statement and other people blindly agreeing with that person is just bla bla to me, sorry to say this.

  20. #140
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    I would be fine with them doing away with the short program

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