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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    If you say as part of a base value that failed jumps be punished more that did lead to abandonment of quads by men in large numbers. It did. If you say failed jump gets same base value but minus 2 for fall instead of 1 that is more penalty but less of a penalty if there was ur so base value for full rotation remains the same but 2 off not 1. The base value can't go down again so where like a quad toe with < and fall is actually worth nothing. 10.3 for quad with fall going down to 7 and then 5 because of minus for falls maybe would not lead to jump abandonment. And that goes for all jumps too.
    Many of you share this same thinking process and I don't know why. Really, it doesn't create that drastic of a difference that a skater is going to fall from 3rd to 15th under slightly adjusted rules. It *does* create enough of a difference that it reflects the actual skating.

    Some stuff I have written in the last few days to demonstrate:

    http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/0...f-skating.html

    http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/0...n-and-ijs.html

    http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/0...o-end-all.html

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Not exactly news. Pretty much everyone feels that way
    Oh really??
    We live in an ageist society where everything is based on youth, but I hated being 18. I don't like teenagers any more now than I did then. I'm 49 now and there is no way that I'd go back to my teens and 20s - even if I knew what I know now, I don't want to go through all that again. I found it a very difficult time. - Buzz Osborne of the Melvins

  3. #43

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    And we care what Plushenko thinks about Chan's win because???

    This from a skater who acknowledges that he has not much of anything in between his jumps.
    This from a skater who has been repeatedly held up in PCS over past years.
    Has he even WATCHED anything from the comp?

    I think some of you need to take a good look at what it actually taking place ON the ice instead of wuz-robbing and yelling CHANFLATION every time Chan wins.
    Crazy about sports!

  4. #44

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    I agree with Plushenko.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Chan can win a World title with 4 big mistakes including 2 falls.
    And PLushenko can win titles (some anyway) with minimal choreography and no transitions. What's your point?
    We live in an ageist society where everything is based on youth, but I hated being 18. I don't like teenagers any more now than I did then. I'm 49 now and there is no way that I'd go back to my teens and 20s - even if I knew what I know now, I don't want to go through all that again. I found it a very difficult time. - Buzz Osborne of the Melvins

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    hm... I wonder why only Plushy's opinion received a thread... It is his opinion and many others have same opinion. Todd Eldrige, Johnny Weir, Christina Gao have big ego too???
    Sonja Bianchetti is nothing? http://fskating.com/2013/03/a-wonder...pionships.html
    Todd, Johnny and Tina are Americans. Russian champion should be treated as a villain here, you know

  7. #47
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    Everyone can have an opinion, but I must have missed where everyone else blames Skate Canada for the points Chan earned..

  8. #48

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    I am a big Plushenko fan but it's not going to help him to express his opinion this openly (even though many others - from other countries- agree with him), since he plans to compete in Sochi next year, and I hope he does. He needs to let the feds battle this out. It's OK for Weir and Eldredge to express it because they are not planning on competing in Sochi or even worlds at this point (yes, I am writing off Weir). Gao said the same thing but she does not have the kind of visibility Plushy has in international figure skating.

    However, it is not Plushenko's nature to keep quiet if he feels that something is wrong. He speaks up. I just accept it as his opinion, and I happen to agree with it. I do believe that if this competition was somewhere other than Canada, there was at least a chance of seeing a different result.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    And we care what Plushenko thinks about Chan's win because???

    This from a skater who acknowledges that he has not much of anything in between his jumps.
    This from a skater who has been repeatedly held up in PCS over past years.
    Has he even WATCHED anything from the comp?

    I think some of you need to take a good look at what it actually taking place ON the ice instead of wuz-robbing and yelling CHANFLATION every time Chan wins.
    Actually we ARE talking about what actually took place on the ice. You don't know whether Plushenko watched it, so that jab was quite unnecessary. You did not ask whether Weir or Eldredge watched it. A little animosity toward the 2006 Olympic champion?

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    And PLushenko can win titles (some anyway) with minimal choreography and no transitions. What's your point?
    Most of these titles were won under a system that did not emphasize transitions and had different requirements as far as choreography was concerned, so I'm not sure how this is really relevant. Not to mention that much of Plushenko's success owes to consistency and strong jump technique, and even without cramming his programs with transitions, that is something that is worth a lot of points.

    I hope I don't get for this, but I really don't understand the obsession with transitions, seemingly above and beyond all other components. They are one component out of five, not the most important one, and to be honest, I find that a lot of the transitions skaters perform contribute nothing to their programs or to my enjoyment of their skating. I think this component and the way it is interpreted privileges quantity and difficulty over quality and aesthetics, and I can't say this is something I want to applaud.

    Anyway, back on point, Plushenko is not arguing that he is better than Chan or would have beaten Chan, so it doesn't matter how his programs compare to Chan's. It matters how Ten's programs and performance at Worlds compare to Chan's, and Plushenko is hardly the only one to answer that with "favorably".

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glacier cat View Post
    Todd, Johnny and Tina are Americans. Russian champion should be treated as a villain here, you know
    Yes, of course

    Weir's tweet:

    This judging is ridiculous and the only reason people buy it is because it's in North America. Imagine the outcry if it were Russia+Plush!?

  12. #52
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    But the biggest mistake for Plushy's this move is that he contributed this win as a result of politicking from Canada. He will not get away with this.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler View Post

    Second thought-- 'as a person who knows figure skating', you'd think Evgeny would try to fill out his programs more to the liking of what the PCS criteria asks. But no, he seems to rather rely on questionable scoring for himself.
    Dear Tony! These were three twitts...No more.... I understand why he did not make a serious analysis....

  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Most of these titles were won under a system that did not emphasize transitions and had different requirements as far as choreography was concerned, so I'm not sure how this is really relevant. Not to mention that much of Plushenko's success owes to consistency and strong jump technique, and even without cramming his programs with transitions, that is something that is worth a lot of points.

    I hope I don't get for this, but I really don't understand the obsession with transitions, seemingly above and beyond all other components. They are one component out of five, not the most important one, and to be honest, I find that a lot of the transitions skaters perform contribute nothing to their programs or to my enjoyment of their skating. I think this component and the way it is interpreted privileges quantity and difficulty over quality and aesthetics, and I can't say this is something I want to applaud.

    Anyway, back on point, Plushenko is not arguing that he is better than Chan or would have beaten Chan, so it doesn't matter how his programs compare to Chan's. It matters how Ten's programs and performance at Worlds compare to Chan's, and Plushenko is hardly the only one to answer that with "favorably".
    If you factored in a zero in transitions in pcs it would have killed plushenkos pcs score! A total zero from 2004-2005 season to the most recent 2012-2013 season would he have won anything? One pcs category of zero from sp and lp would he have even won the 2006 Olympics? So here you have a situation to where the only right score for plushenko was zero and he doesn't win anything probably. But even if a zero was right that would mandate all judges giving plushenko more than zero be sanctioned so it's a judge issue. It doesn't really apply to 6.0.

    But the point about why the obsession with transitions I missed. Non stop movement for movement sake is very popular among a lot and believed to make everything harder. People like crazy non stop movement for no reason!!
    Last edited by caseyedwards; 03-20-2013 at 08:26 PM.

  15. #55
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    I think some people just don't like that the majority of Canadian skaters come into competitions prepared and really read up on the criteria that is published regarding the different aspects of the PCS. Anyone can do it-- Canada just seems to excel much more than anyone else. It's like an open-note test and there are always some people who won't even bring the notes to class.

    Look at the short program of Duhamel/Radford. Easily the most transitions of the pairs short. Do the marks reflect that? No. The choreography was actually pretty complex, too.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler View Post
    Many of you share this same thinking process and I don't know why. Really, it doesn't create that drastic of a difference that a skater is going to fall from 3rd to 15th under slightly adjusted rules. It *does* create enough of a difference that it reflects the actual skating.

    Some stuff I have written in the last few days to demonstrate:

    http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/0...f-skating.html

    http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/0...n-and-ijs.html

    http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/0...o-end-all.html
    I just saw this and even though every jump is treated the same they vary so wildly in difficulty!

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    And PLushenko can win titles (some anyway) with minimal choreography and no transitions.
    not relevans, and isn't true... but maybe , because he skated mostly under the old system?? hm?

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Maybe we should go back to the days when the SP was only worth 20-30% of the total score.
    The factors on the PCS are less for the SP as opposed to the FS. They are 1.0 for the SP as opposed to the 2.0 for the FS.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  19. #59
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    Wasn't he supposed to be a reasoning, calming voice through this? No?
    Dá-lhe, Isadora!!
    Lead me not into temptation. I can find it, and eat it, all by myself.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    I think some of you need to take a good look at what it actually taking place ON the ice instead of wuz-robbing and yelling CHANFLATION every time Chan wins.
    We look many people blame Chan when he wins. It's because Chan wins often with big errors. If he won with clean programs, nobody would yell anything.

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