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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    Yes, about the first paragraph information about not liking skating competitions, but about hating the USA??? That second paragraph was kind of out of the blue unless I missed something upthread, and even so, it seems totally unnecessary.
    I don't think he hates USA..Why do you think so? But this whole package is Yagudin..he said this opinion, and I'm sure he won't deny it.

  2. #362

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    Well, that second paragraph wasn't terribly complimentary - maybe hate is too big of a word, but it wasn't flattering. It just wasn't necessary and I think you know exactly what you are doing. Just my humble opinion!

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    Well, that second paragraph wasn't terribly complimentary - maybe hate is too big of a word, but it wasn't flattering. It just wasn't necessary and I think you know exactly what you are doing. Just my humble opinion!
    Well, If I want to be honest, yes, I was a little bit malicious. But I was angry, if I wrote true things about Yag, and that weren't nice and lovely, some Yag's fan said I'm lying..hm..because I'm a fan of Plushy, -who is a commie devil - thus I'm a liar person...Do you understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Do you understand?
    I think I understand. Your feelings were hurt so you thought you would hurt someone else. Not a very adult response, is it?
    If this is to end in fire
    Then we will all burn together

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nan View Post
    I think I understand. Your feelings were hurt so you thought you would hurt someone else. Not a very adult response, is it?
    Maybe, but I don't want to hurt anybody, and I couldn't imagine I will hurt somebody with the truth. The Plushy haters aren't so sensitive, if they want to hurt Plush with untrue statements. Double standard again.
    Last edited by lala; 03-25-2013 at 09:32 PM.

  6. #366

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    Lala...I am a true fan of Yags. I don't give a rip if he hates everybody in the Western Hemisphere. I don't care if he says things that might not be complimentary to where I live. I can understand someone being in a foreign country and feeling out of sorts. I love Yags because of what he put on the ice, and nothing else!

    Also - Plushy a Communist? I didn't think there were any more of them in Russia or very few. Come on Lala....Communists????? Are you kidding?

    Believe it or not, I am a citizen of the USA who loves Russia and Russian culture and thinks highly of Plushy but loves Yags better. So eat that with your breakfast. And I meant that in a nice way, of course.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    Lala...I am a true fan of Yags. I don't give a rip if he hates everybody in the Western Hemisphere. I don't care if he says things that might not be complimentary to where I live. I can understand someone being in a foreign country and feeling out of sorts. I love Yags because of what he put on the ice, and nothing else!

    Also - Plushy a Communist? I didn't think there were any more of them in Russia or very few. Come on Lala....Communists????? Are you kidding?

    Believe it or not, I am a citizen of the USA who loves Russia and Russian culture and thinks highly of Plushy but loves Yags better. So eat that with your breakfast. And I meant that in a nice way, of course.
    [B]
    Ok, Holley. I apologize you. I think highly of Yag, because of his skating, but love Plush better.

    But don't you remember for the NBC clips with Lenin's statues falling and Plushy presented as an evil commie? And many Plushy fans from North-America talked about the constant and saturation-level vilification of Plushy in American mainstream media, and it was particularly bad against him in 2010.

    but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVGRZLmIEIw too big difference..
    Last edited by lala; 03-25-2013 at 10:27 PM.

  8. #368

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    Yes the Lenin busts all over the plushenko fluff was weird! It wasn't Peter the great or Catherine the great or Putin but Lenin! I guess it could have been Stalin right? Or were there some stalins too? Hammer and sickles and Lenin? Plushenko never competed for the soviet union. Symbols of Russia could be the kremlin or st basils why go with so much communist dictator stuff. It was very prominent. Plushenko Lenin plushenko Lenin? Why not throw a Peter the great in there!

    http://ontd-political.livejournal.co...read=328948351

    Plushenko as soviet villain from rocky 4

    http://newyorker.com/online/blogs/cl...mpolitics.html
    Last edited by caseyedwards; 03-25-2013 at 10:59 PM.

  9. #369

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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    [B]
    Ok, Holley. I apologize you. I think highly of Yag, because of his skating, but love Plush better.

    But don't you remember for the NBC clips with Lenin's statues falling and Plushy presented as an evil commie? And many Plushy fans from North-America talked about the constant and saturation-level vilification of Plushy in American mainstream media, and it was particularly bad against him in 2010.

    but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVGRZLmIEIw too big difference..
    No apology necessary, Lala. I respect your opinion, but I really have never seen any video of Plushy presented as an evil Commie, and even if I had, I wouldn't have believed it. I'm in public relations myself, and I rarely believe anything I read or see..... I agree Plushy never competed for the USSR or any official Communist state. That's insane! Just some media fools having a good time. I daresay he has received much more positive press than negative over the years. I remember seeing him live at a tour right after the SLC Olympics (I think) in Atlanta and he was cheered just as much as the others. All public figures get good and bad publicity. You just have to roll with the punches.

    Edited to say....I sincerely don't remember Plushy being denigrated with mobile Lenin statues around the 2010 Olys, though that might have happened. I watched those Olympics faithfully, so it must not have made a very big impression if I did see it.
    Last edited by Holley Calmes; 03-25-2013 at 10:42 PM.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    Edited to say....I sincerely don't remember Plushy being denigrated with mobile Lenin statues around the 2010 Olys, though that might have happened. I watched those Olympics faithfully, so it must not have made a very big impression if I did see it.
    http://gawker.com/5474156/is-nbc-try...tag=television

    Watch the video.

    There are also shots of the statute of Peter the Great on horseback, a cathedral, and a branch of McDonald's. Clearly, NBC was trying to depict poor little Evgeni Plushenko as an ultra-religious American lackey with imperial pretenstions.

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    As was pointed out in the links the music was ominous and the reflection was in water. you flash some Lenin and hammer and sickles with ominous music you get reactions from the new yorker and other sites! It was about a figure skater! Not an enemy of the us motivated by Lenin!

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    This is totally different from what lala said which was the opposite:

    You said Yagudin was talking about lacking of quad. He was standing on the Patrick Chan side. She said Yagudin dislikes Chan and has been against him.

    Again, I challenge lala (or anyone) to produce the original piece of what Yagudin said. VarBar, I believe your version more.
    lala also said in another thread that Plushenko would have won in Vancouver if it hadn't been for Chan's coach Lori Nichol who pushed for the ISU to illegally add Transitions to the other program components to help North-Americans win the competition, there was no Transitions mark prior to Vancouver. So...

    What I posted earlier is all I know Yagudin would have said of Chan and his skating. Yagudin and Chan were involved in several shows in China and Korea alongside other skaters in 2011 and 2012 and I thought Yagudin was genuinely friendly to Chan. But of course people who know these things better than I do might want to reply Yagudin was actually just polite to Chan, in fact Yagudin hates Chan and is against him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    Yes, about the first paragraph information about not liking skating competitions, but about hating the USA??? That second paragraph was kind of out of the blue unless I missed something upthread, and even so, it seems totally unnecessary.
    When the Russian Federation decided to send Kovtun to Europeans, Yagudin tweeted something like the Russian Federation is chaos and nothing will change so long as they keep Piseev in office. They should follow the example of the US Federation where things are pretty well organized.

    It seems there are things Yagudin appreciates about America though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    The concept would be fun for the off-season. But I can see it already - Yuna's medals are false because she doesn't point her toes, Kostner's because she didn't do 3Lz for two seasons, Chan because he falls, Dai because he URs his quads, Hanyu because he only does good SPs, D/W and V/M because the other team's ubers said so, V/T because they have Morozov choreo and S/S because of the costumes. Javier Fernandez can keep his medals, I guess...

    Does that cover it?
    Looks like there's just a few skaters in today's skating who absolutely deserve the scores they receive. Most skaters are either overmarked (usually the ones we hate) or undermarked (usually the ones we love) by the judges. Also, the technical panels call UR's randomly, they see UR's where there are none or the other way around, they miss obvious underrotations. The scoring system is just too complicated for the casual fans - the good old 6.0 system days where everybody knew what the mark of 5.7 stood for and everybody could explain why a skater got 5.6 from a judge and 5.9 from another judge for the same performance.

    Are we surprised that figure skating is dying?

  13. #373
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    BTW...
    If someone doesn't agree with the results of the championship and would like to see awarded a second gold medal,
    here is link: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/760/2...championships/

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    Yes, about the first paragraph information about not liking skating competitions, but about hating the USA??? That second paragraph was kind of out of the blue unless I missed something upthread, and even so, it seems totally unnecessary.
    It was part of the interview, so was quoted. What's the big deal? Should we censor interviews so others won't dis our favs?

    If it doesn't bother you at all, then you shouldn't have a problem with it being posted.

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by VarBar View Post
    lala also said in another thread that Plushenko would have won in Vancouver if it hadn't been for Chan's coach Lori Nichol who pushed for the ISU to illegally add Transitions to the other program components to help North-Americans win the competition, there was no Transitions mark prior to Vancouver. So...
    That's not lying: that's delusion.

    In fact, for TR Plushenko earned 7.82/7.75 in Torino (2006), as well as TR scores at 2004 and 2005 CoR, 2005 GPF, 2005 WC (QR and SP), and 2005 and 2006 Euros. He might have competed as if he were competing under 6.0, but he was scored using CoP.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 03-25-2013 at 11:52 PM.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  16. #376

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    This is not true. I never ever said or indicated I supported goebel winning In slc! That is the main case and 3rd was right for him. The issue has always been some kind of equal difficulty from skaters in jumps and a total rejection of the stupid idea that a quadless skate could somehow be technically superior to a skate with no quads. Once that bees old is reached hen it becomes about everything else! Like plushenko was better than gachinski in 2012 euros with gachinski 2 quads to plushenko 1 quad. And yagudin and plushenko are better than goebel. You're just not paying close enough attention to what I've been saying to comment. It's like your ignoring what I say and going on characterizations of what I said by others.
    You seem to be contradicting yourself. If a two quad program can be superior to a three quad program, then a one quad program can be superior to a two quad program. That being the case, it would follow that a non-quad program could be superior to a one-quad program and a non-triple axel program could be superior to a one triple-axel program.

    What you are suggesting is that there should be a baseline of one quad for a winning program under the current system. But that is an arbitrary criteria and not the current criteria. A points system rewards what is done and the points for the quad is only a portion of the total points.

    For your viewpoint to work, there would have to be sufficient points for the first quad - more than for the second - and/or a bonus, to ensure that the one-quad skater would have an secure advantage over the non-quad skater.

  17. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    It was part of the interview, so was quoted. What's the big deal? Should we censor interviews so others won't dis our favs?

    If it doesn't bother you at all, then you shouldn't have a problem with it being posted.
    It was not the content of that part of the interview that bothered me, it was the motivation of why it was necessary to post it when it had nothing to do with what we were talking about.

    OK-I remember the video now. I see that it is rather bleak and the music was dreary and the camera angles were low. But they did show a lot more than just Lenin although unfortunately not in focus.....But those were Plushy's words- and actually I thought he came off pretty heroic. Determined and good natured. I don't think it was all that bad. Plushy looked cute! Mind you, I live in the southern part of the USA and I'm used to having every other movie and TV show depict where I live as containing a bunch of drooling idiot racist uneducated rednecks, so maybe my skin is a little thicker than most people's.
    Last edited by Holley Calmes; 03-26-2013 at 12:57 AM.

  18. #378

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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    You seem to be contradicting yourself. If a two quad program can be superior to a three quad program, then a one quad program can be superior to a two quad program. That being the case, it would follow that a non-quad program could be superior to a one-quad program and a non-triple axel program could be superior to a one triple-axel program.

    What you are suggesting is that there should be a baseline of one quad for a winning program under the current system. But that is an arbitrary criteria and not the current criteria. A points system rewards what is done and the points for the quad is only a portion of the total points.

    For your viewpoint to work, there would have to be sufficient points for the first quad - more than for the second - and/or a bonus, to ensure that the one-quad skater would have an secure advantage over the non-quad skater.
    I am not saying It could be built into the system. I am not sure that it could. Just as a viewer and hearing skaters say-which now includes patrick chan- that doing a quad alters a program athletically more than anything else - even when a skater with all triples adds a 3a than if someone is going for gold at an Olympics or worlds that doing so without even trying a quad is not even coming close to athletic maximum at all! 1 quad is my baseline and the system changes that now skaters dont have to worry about the extreme punishments that used to exist that meant takahashi for example got no points for his 3 plus rotations in his Olympic fs.

  19. #379

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    Someone could always create a bit of software that can determine results based on any criteria.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  20. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Well, for ex : http://www.womanhit.ru/psychology/fa...o-dialogi.html

    two parts, with google translater
    What feelings do you see the world championships?
    Alex: "I do not watch them. Everyone is so surprised ... To be honest, I'm not interested. I've done everything in the sport that I could. It is clear that time is and will be the new champions, victory and tragedy. Why are not interested - no bright individuals. If you take the masters of the old school: Lyudmila Belousova and Oleg Protopopov, Tatiana Tarasova, Tamara Moskvina - it's really the person, people with substantial internal energy. In February, the European Championship was figure skating, which coincided with the filming of "Ice Age." And since I was a host of the show and did not ride up to three or four in the morning, like everyone else, I had the opportunity to see it. I did not feel any particular emotion. If you take the men's figure skating, it's probably only one skater, Canadian Patrick Chan, came to the fact that at one time made our top five at the Olympics - two quads. For ten years - no development. Of course, the first few years after the end of my career I was bored and wanted to get back into the sport. Just as dramatically suddenly snapped ... I think that will help knee surgery, but it did not.

    and

    You have lived long enough in America, then returned. Do not like it?
    Alex: "I actually spent in America for seven years. Four years of riding there under the direction of Tatiana Tarasova, were later tour. And after that, I went for two weeks to rest, Peter, and her mother said, "You're a long time? When going back? "And I realized that I return to America I did not want to. Everything is artificial, ranging from food and finishing with emotion. People like robots. In Russia, people are still more sincere, open to communication. Plus, here is my mentality, culture, humor. I remember when after America first time I went for a walk along the Nevsky Prospekt, was blown away: what are our girls are beautiful! Trying to look good, dress poeffektnee, albeit at a low price. But in America, people to go out, just pulled on shorts and flip-flops. Although the opportunities they often earn much more and they are good. Did I mention that my wife and I recently vacationed in Hong Kong. This city I also confess, surprised. There is also a girl for a very particular - are on the streets are beautiful thin, dark-haired. Feast for the eyes. But then we arrived in Moscow, Tatiana and I realized we did better! This is home. "
    Thanks for finding it, lala!

    I haven't paid close attention on Yagudin in recent years. But I can totally understand for what he said. Still, sorry to say, it's contrary to what you have said about Yagudin's view on Chan. Yes, he did say that he was not interested in competition anymore. But he was refering to lack of high athletic abilities in recent year competitions. He actually specifically singled out Patrick Chan as the only one who qualified for their "multi-quad club". Contrary to what you have insisted, I do not see Yagudin show dislike on Chan at least in this particular interview which you brought here as an example for your claim.

    The second part of the translation which was only a small part of this very long interview did seem out of place, since there was no one asking for it. I, for one, have already known what Yagudin thought about USA, American food and drink, girls, and the sort. So the second part of the translation was no surprise to me at all. Whatever your "a bit malicious" intentions go, it didn't work one bit on me.

    This whole business of re-direct attention from Plushenko to Yagudin is, to say the least, a little bit tasteless. It doesn't work. Now, back to Plushenko...
    Last edited by Eyre; 03-26-2013 at 04:35 AM.

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