Page 12 of 23 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 221 to 240 of 448
  1. #221

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    at FSU
    Posts
    3,923
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2790
    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    This is nonsense. It was very important that people call Lysaceks bullcrap and his win nonsense bullcrap. Now skating is back to normal with jumps with quads in sp and lp! Men's skating is back to normal. Thanks mainly to plushenko and stojko not being "oh I am so happy with silver" and stojko being "I'm so happy with he results!" but plushenko competing and saying it made so much more impact!! Like Joubert said the same thing but not on the Olympic level! Fs as sport needed plushenkos comments and his clean skating in Vancouver with no falls or stepouts or doubles- better than in Torino which had step out and doubling made his words mean more!! He helped put men's skating back to normal! Not any bullcrap pr training saying like quadlessness is ok and no big deal! They were very big deals!
    What an ignorant post. You become more bizarre by the day...
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  2. #222
    INTJ
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    3,927
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Well, this is matter of taste...If you mentioned Abbott I find him extremly boring...sorry, especially in this year. I'm sure if Plushenko wants to be like Abbott, he can be. The expressivity begins in this performance, look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO1DO2h6130 please,..maybe you will undertand what I'm talking about..
    I'm not sure that's the best example to use If posing is what does it for you well I'm not sure what to say. It took until 1:40ish in that video for him to do anything other than crossovers, three turns, and mohawks, outside of his footwork. I'd rather see expression with choreography, body movement, etc... (ymmv, obviously) I kinda feel like the Plushenko of late is insulting to my intelligence. He has charisma, but it's just not enough to engage me when you're putting on a clinic of basic turns. It's boring and almost feels manipulative.
    "Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett

  3. #223
    Port de bras!!!
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Ravenclaw
    Posts
    29,511
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    20235
    Did he actually lick his finger at 2:04? Is that part of IN, CH or P/E? It sure isn't part of SS...
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  4. #224

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,378
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight1 View Post
    I can't stand Plushenko and can't believe that I agree with him that Chan should not have gotten the marks he got. I love Chan's skating. Him,Takahashi, Hanyu, and Buttle skate amazing when they are on. The edges, the flow, the transitions, the musicality of their programs are sublime.

    Plushenko, Stojko, Joubert, Reynolds are jumping beans that don't really focus on the artistic part of skating but I can't negate that this is a sport so while the Canuck in me is happy that Chan won gold. Silver would have been cool too.
    How do you know what they do or don't focus on? I think this is attributing motivations to skaters that they may not have, based on how well their style works for you. My memories of Stojko are by now pretty hazy, but Plushenko had some lovely programs in the past and both Joubert and Reynolds have tried to improve various aspects of their skating. Joubert did not skate a Flamenco SP and Beethoven LP two seasons ago, or try the Inception LP earlier this season, because he wanted to showcase his jumps. Reynolds' work with Shae-Lynn Bourne does not suggest to me a skater who doesn't want to improve his artistic expression; I find him greatly improved in that regard.

    Skating skills and transitions are not artistry; they can enable artistry if used correctly. And artistry is a very subjective thing - of your list, for instance, I don't feel that Chan and Hanyu are anywhere near Buttle and Takahashi at this point in their career. My reaction to Elegie was basically "Chan has a lovely program, well done him, but it would be nicer if Buttle skated it himself".

  5. #225

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Age
    29
    Posts
    4,889
    vCash
    1670
    Rep Power
    3283
    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Did he actually lick his finger at 2:04? Is that part of IN, CH or P/E? It sure isn't part of SS...

    There are enough movements in Tessa and Scott programs that variants the same questions, Chan also has choreography that usually make no sense and he does not feel the music as well. On top of that he does some beautiful falls which some judges adds to his transition mark, Choreography and P/E. As for Plushy's program, he skates with amazing confidence and command and never in his program does he look like a fragile porcelain doll.

    As for the purpose of Plushenko's comment, I think it is to put pressure on ISU on the scoring. The world championship scoring has angered many around the world. The last two world championships which Chan won have been less the convincing, so Plushenko would like to portray Chan as the favoured one by ISU , and Canada as having to much support within ISU. The next Olympics are in Russia, and he stirring Russian media up one year before the games will severally help him.ISU can't afford to have another SLC like scandal, and if Russians feel the result was unjustified, the whole Russian media will do what US media did in SLC. Plushenko's comment was a hint in this direction to ISU...

    I think US, Russia, Canada, Japan, China and Korea all know how to politic in ISU, and the strength of politicking has varied over the years

  6. #226
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,774
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by made_in_canada View Post
    I'm not sure that's the best example to use If posing is what does it for you well I'm not sure what to say. It took until 1:40ish in that video for him to do anything other than crossovers, three turns, and mohawks, outside of his footwork. I'd rather see expression with choreography, body movement, etc... (ymmv, obviously) I kinda feel like the Plushenko of late is insulting to my intelligence. He has charisma, but it's just not enough to engage me when you're putting on a clinic of basic turns. It's boring and almost feels manipulative.
    Oh really? matter of taste... the crowd went crazy for him, Chris, ES commentator adore it..so who cares? I find Chan exquisitely boring. Chan can glide, but I prefer Plushenko's worst performance to Chan's best. Plushenko has drama and character in his dance, Chan has no expression, no emotion.

    About this Tango:

    From China:
    And as an exhibition program, oh boy, the audience just loves it! He almost blew 18,000 people off with that program in Artistry On Ice last year. I have read nothing but raving review after that performance in China, people calling it "the highlight of the night", and "the perfect combination of dancing and music".

    -----
    Sinead Kerr:

    The main event this year – if the crowd was anything to go by – was the Men’s. The arena was packed and the audience was excited, mainly, I think, because of the return of Olympic gold medallist and twice silver medallist, Evgeni Plushenko, who – as ever – didn’t disappoint.
    We have done many shows with Evgeni and there is no doubt that he is a star in the skating world. He has a presence which is hard to define and almost impossible to imitate – as his training partner, runner up Artur Gachinski, can attest to.
    Artur skated cleanly and landed more quads than Evgeni, tried his best to skated like him and in some ways is more able in the transition steps. Yet, somehow, when he finished, he was met with good applause rather than the impromptu standing ovation and wild enthusiasm following Plushenko. Many people questioned Evgeni’s comeback, but I think he proved here in Sheffield that he is still one of the best competitors ever in the sport and certainly a big draw....


    Tomas Verner:
    "And it's without mentioning of Evgeni Plushenko - probably the only one skater in the world, capable alone to filed full arena."

    )

  7. #227
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,774
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Did he actually lick his finger at 2:04? Is that part of IN, CH or P/E? It sure isn't part of SS...
    it was a show... i like it...
    Last edited by lala; 03-22-2013 at 06:55 AM.

  8. #228
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,774
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Definitely. I mean I respect him as an athlete, a competitor and a jumper, but not at all as a skater, an artist or even a sportsman.

    And his skating and his ideal of what is good skating seems very dated. Yes, jumps and charisma (subjective) are important in competitive skating, but they are not everything. Edges matter. Ice coverage matters. 1 foot skating matters. Skating in both directions matters. Choreography matters. In-betweens matter. Spins matter. Quality matters. With how his programs were constructed and presented in 2006 and 2010, it just seems like he was quite clueless as to what the judges and the system really wanted - especially in 2010 with all the trash talk on why he believed he should have won.
    Ridiculous. http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

    Camerlengo: He was amazing. Right from the beginning, he and I listened to the music [and discussed] what he would like to go for -- my ideas, his ideas. We never had a conflict. So far, it's been very, very good.

    Evgeni is really capable. He surprised me with his ability and skills as a skater. I'd ask, 'Why haven't you done that before?' He did so many things, but in a competitive program you have to consider all the time the elements, the jumps, the timing, the stamina, many things. So you cannot really skate a program using all of your skills, [including] all the steps you can do and all of the other things you can do on the ice. Because you have to think, 'If I overload the program, I'm not able to do the elements.' And in the end, the elements give you the results.

    Icenetwork.com: Plushenko has been criticized for a lack of transitions between elements.

    Camerlengo: That's what we worked on. We worked on having full transitions; we wanted to do that. I said, 'I want to see you doing something that is not crossovers.' And we went for that, and he was really, really positive. He feels so motivated; he wants to show everybody, 'I can do this, I can do that.' Why he didn't do more of that before, I cannot say, but his [winning] history makes him right. It seemed to have hurt him a bit at the 2010 Vancouver Olympics, though.

    In Vancouver, he lost the Olympics [due to] one jump. (Evan Lysacek defeated Plushenko by 1.31 points.) He didn't perform a triple-double-double combination; he did triple-double. If he had done triple-double-double, he might be Olympic champion. So history proves him right. People criticize him, but he always did the same thing in competition and he has always been rewarded. So in the end, he's right.

    Icenetwork.com: If Plushenko does compete at the world championships again, he'll have to compete against Patrick Chan, Daisuke Takahashi.

    Camerlengo: He can do it. Of course, he is 30 years old and he's going to be the oldest one of the whole group, but he has good technique and such skills when he skates. I think he can make it. I think he can go and show up there with the program and compete, for sure. He won [2012] Europeans with a big score.

    He has everything he needs to compete at the same level with all the others and even more, because he has such amazing experience, and he has a charisma that is so amazing on the ice. Already, when he is just standing on the ice, the people watch him so [intently].

    Do you understand better the FS, like Camerlengo????..And this is one exmple about Plush skating...Jacky Wong also praised his skills ..

  9. #229
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,774
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    What happened? I posted this:

    Well, this is matter of taste...If you mentioned Abbott I find him extremly boring...sorry, especially in this year. I'm sure if Plushenko wants to be like Abbott, he can be.

    I got a PM:
    Your posts are patronising and rude

    Oh really???? You can say every rude and unreal things about Plush..you can.. This is outrageously double standard...

  10. #230

    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    at FSU
    Posts
    3,923
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2790
    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Ridiculous. http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

    Camerlengo: He was amazing. Right from the beginning, he and I listened to the music [and discussed] what he would like to go for -- my ideas, his ideas. We never had a conflict. So far, it's been very, very good.

    Evgeni is really capable. He surprised me with his ability and skills as a skater. I'd ask, 'Why haven't you done that before?' He did so many things, but in a competitive program you have to consider all the time the elements, the jumps, the timing, the stamina, many things. So you cannot really skate a program using all of your skills, [including] all the steps you can do and all of the other things you can do on the ice. Because you have to think, 'If I overload the program, I'm not able to do the elements.' And in the end, the elements give you the results.

    Icenetwork.com: Plushenko has been criticized for a lack of transitions between elements.

    Camerlengo: That's what we worked on. We worked on having full transitions; we wanted to do that. I said, 'I want to see you doing something that is not crossovers.' And we went for that, and he was really, really positive. He feels so motivated; he wants to show everybody, 'I can do this, I can do that.' Why he didn't do more of that before, I cannot say, but his [winning] history makes him right. It seemed to have hurt him a bit at the 2010 Vancouver Olympics, though.

    In Vancouver, he lost the Olympics [due to] one jump. (Evan Lysacek defeated Plushenko by 1.31 points.) He didn't perform a triple-double-double combination; he did triple-double. If he had done triple-double-double, he might be Olympic champion. So history proves him right. People criticize him, but he always did the same thing in competition and he has always been rewarded. So in the end, he's right.

    Icenetwork.com: If Plushenko does compete at the world championships again, he'll have to compete against Patrick Chan, Daisuke Takahashi.

    Camerlengo: He can do it. Of course, he is 30 years old and he's going to be the oldest one of the whole group, but he has good technique and such skills when he skates. I think he can make it. I think he can go and show up there with the program and compete, for sure. He won [2012] Europeans with a big score.

    He has everything he needs to compete at the same level with all the others and even more, because he has such amazing experience, and he has a charisma that is so amazing on the ice. Already, when he is just standing on the ice, the people watch him so [intently].

    Do you understand better the FS, like Camerlengo????..And this is one exmple about Plush skating...Jacky Wong also praised his skills ..
    I just kept seeing the "He has skills he never shows anyone" If this is what COP requires he's the fool for not showing it when he knew that's what they were looking for. Then when he doesn't win it's everybody else's fault.
    I guess the hard thing for a lot of people to accept is why God would allow me to go running through their yards, yelling and spinning around.


  11. #231
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    ciocioworld
    Posts
    578
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Great! Plushenko didn´t even compete in Canada but he already got more comments than Chan and D10!
    In Sochi all he has to do is to appear, it doesn´t matter if he finishes in top 20 or not. I bet people won´t even remember the name of the gold medallist, they´ll talk about Plushenko.

    It´s funny how people that never respected Plushenko say that he lost their respect! LOL!

  12. #232
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Does it matter?
    Posts
    1,115
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    I would be fine with them doing away with the short program
    I too would be happy if they did away with the short program. Retroactively. But only for the Worlds in London. Then I would kindly ask them to bring the SP back in competition.

  13. #233
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    France
    Posts
    123
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    hmm...I need some time to go through all of the comments here but I also why only Plushy's voice has a a thread while MANY have questioned Chan's score. I must say it's a deja vu.
    I actually like Chan's skating but his arrogant manner while interviewed makes me dislike him as a person.

  14. #234

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    2,897
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    5459
    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    This is nonsense. It was very important that people call Lysaceks bullcrap and his win nonsense bullcrap. Now skating is back to normal with jumps with quads in sp and lp! Men's skating is back to normal. Thanks mainly to plushenko and stojko not being "oh I am so happy with silver" and stojko being "I'm so happy with he results!" but plushenko competing and saying it made so much more impact!! Like Joubert said the same thing but not on the Olympic level! Fs as sport needed plushenkos comments and his clean skating in Vancouver with no falls or stepouts or doubles- better than in Torino which had step out and doubling made his words mean more!! He helped put men's skating back to normal! Not any bullcrap pr training saying like quadlessness is ok and no big deal! They were very big deals!
    So Chan with his three quads in London definitely deserved the win then in your eyes....most quads, best quality quads...

    Do you even know what you're arguing any more?

  15. #235
    YEAH!
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Worshipping Grebenkina...
    Posts
    13,673
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5868
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    And his skating and his ideal of what is good skating seems very dated. Yes, jumps and charisma (subjective) are important in competitive skating, but they are not everything. Edges matter. Ice coverage matters. 1 foot skating matters. Skating in both directions matters. Choreography matters. In-betweens matter. Spins matter. Quality matters. With how his programs were constructed and presented in 2006 and 2010, it just seems like he was quite clueless as to what the judges and the system really wanted - especially in 2010 with all the trash talk on why he believed he should have won.
    And? He won the gold in 2006. He tied Lysacek on PCS in 2010 (not that I think Lysacek has most of those qualities in abundance either).

    To the contrary, I think Plush knows exactly how to use the system. He was just dumb to state it outright (that the judges mark him and Joubert as having transitions when they don't).

    If he had done another 2loop in his LP, he would have won in Vancouver, even with the basic skating that everyone here says is so horrible.

    Because the judges, at the end of the day, don't really mark according to the PCS criteria alone. It would be interesting if they did, but they would have to do so for everyone, not just Plushenko.

    In this sense Plushenko is not so different from Chan. They design their programs according to their strengths, knowing the judges mark on an overall impression. Plushenko does clean, streamlined programs with great jumps, accenting the big points of the music, in a style that engages the audience even if the choreography is simple. Chan does beautifully detailed choreography that shows off his amazing basics, with a style that is more reserved and for some, lacking musicality, and these difficult programs often lead to major mistakes. Chan knows that by putting in all those difficult turns, he can score the PCS even with multiple falls without getting hit too badly on PE. He's more or less said as much (that the judges like him and see what he puts on the ice even with mistakes). Plush knows that if he does the jumps and engages the audience, his TR mark can be high enough to win.

    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    You mean with plushenkos level 4 spins in Vancouver ? I think its obvious he knows spins matter and that's why he got level 4's on his spins. And why his step sequences weren't below level 3.
    Exactly, he doesn't ignore steps and spins at all (he might have had one level 3 spin but your point basically stands).

    He also had very nice LP choreo this year, and made an effort to move more jumps into the second half.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    My reaction to Elegie was basically "Chan has a lovely program, well done him, but it would be nicer if Buttle skated it himself".
    My feeling was Chan would be my favorite skater if only I watched on mute.

  16. #236
    Port de bras!!!
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Ravenclaw
    Posts
    29,511
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    20235
    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    Chan also has choreography that usually make no sense and he does not feel the music as well.
    Makes no sense TO YOU. I, however, am grateful for the lack of hip thrusts, finger-lickin' good hand choreo and the presence of organic flow of the choreography that uses the feet for a change.

    ITA with Marco, Plushy's skating looks dated. This is 2013, not 2006. He is all about the hands and very little about the blade/edgework.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  17. #237
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    195
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Sacrifices his life? Dear skategods, I hope not.

    Fear not! I did not mean this literally, but intend the many sacrifices he made, even as a child, to persevere and become the great skater he is.

  18. #238

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Quadland
    Posts
    6,160
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1604
    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    So Chan with his three quads in London definitely deserved the win then in your eyes....most quads, best quality quads...

    Do you even know what you're arguing any more?
    Everyone did quads so who had the best skate? That was Ten. I dont support goebel winning in 2002 and where you got I think most quads should win I don't know. I supported plushenko winning euros 2012 he was the best and gachinski 3 quads and plushenko 1 and in 2002 yagudin 2 and goebel 3. Once the skaters put everything into a program which includes a quad they are at lest competing on the same advanced level. So I know what have been saying you think I just say most quads wins which is wrong like there is nothing else involved in skating. Like everyone who opposed Lysaceks win like plushenko and others were said to want to abolish skating as it is and just have a one jump contest.

  19. #239
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    195
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    People can sacrifice their lives for whatever reason or cause. Doesn't necessarily mean they earn respect. It has to be earnt. I think Plushenko has done his fair share of things in the past that have lessened the respect people have for him. For example demonstrating very poor sportsmanship after Olympics such as the things he said about why he didn't win or his antics on the podium at Vancouver. But then it is all about perceptions and what one might think is justified others will consider it disrespectful.
    You're right, he showed poor sportsmanship by climbing over the podium- what can I say?? Nobody's perfect.

  20. #240

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,378
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    To the contrary, I think Plush knows exactly how to use the system. He was just dumb to state it outright (that the judges mark him and Joubert as having transitions when they don't).
    The funny thing is that I'm not even sure he actually said that. The quote only appeared in one report from the press conference, the context was never explained and some of the meaning may have been lost in translation. But that's neither here nor there.

    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    ITA with Marco, Plushy's skating looks dated. This is 2013, not 2006. He is all about the hands and very little about the blade/edgework.
    I'd rather have a few retro programs in the mix than watch everyone skate smart programs that tick off the required points and leave me cold. Few people know how to code-whore in an interesting way.

Page 12 of 23 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •