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  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    People can sacrifice their lives for whatever reason or cause. Doesn't necessarily mean they earn respect. It has to be earnt. I think Plushenko has done his fair share of things in the past that have lessened the respect people have for him. For example demonstrating very poor sportsmanship after Olympics such as the things he said about why he didn't win or his antics on the podium at Vancouver. But then it is all about perceptions and what one might think is justified others will consider it disrespectful.
    I'm the first to adore most Russian skaters, but this is spot on. I think poor Plushy grew up very isolated from normal life, and I think he behaves often very childishly. I am not saying he is a bad person or eville or anything silly like that. I just think he can be very immature for someone his age and visibility in the world. I feel very sorry for him. After his skating life is done, I wonder how he will adjust? Then again, he had a right to say whatever he felt like saying. We have the right to either like it or not. I think a real gentleman would have kept his mouth shut and just let his skating do the talking for him next time the two of them meet up. I guess that's asking too much.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by rfisher View Post
    He has more haterz than Chan has fans.
    Very true. Probably one caveat with the statement, at this particular message board.

    Whenever you see the name Plushenko, sure there will be a crowd!


    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    I think a real gentleman would have kept his mouth shut and just let his skating do the talking for him next time the two of them meet up.
    Very puzzling statement. So anyone who will not compete with Chan in the next competition cannot comment on the results of Worlds, which is the most important figure skating competition of the year?
    Last edited by GoGreen; 03-21-2013 at 11:18 PM.

  3. #203

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    Quote Originally Posted by gingercrush View Post
    Who cares. But of course Canadians are just as guilty as receiving gifts as the bloody Russians not to bloody mention manufacturing a so called crisis over the 2002 pairs results. Everyone knows Canadians skating at home are going to get some sort of advantage and for people to suggest otherwise is bloody stupid. That Virtue & Moir lost to Davis & White is meaningless because Davis & White have been better this year. Also don't play some stupid innocent act and suggest no bloc voting took place for North American skaters. Russians only were advantaged most of the time because they had more on their side of the judging panel.
    One expects to see some hometown favoritism, but it use to be that you still had to well skate decently.. The new system throws that out the window. I want to make clear with my snarky post before. I think Chan is a beautiful skater. But I don't enjoy watching any skater fall multiple times.

    I'm far more annoyed at the judges and the folks who are defending Chan's win. Than I'm at Chan. Although Chan making comments like Denis made as many mistakes as he did, doesn't endear me to him either.

  4. #204

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    I can't stand Plushenko and can't believe that I agree with him that Chan should not have gotten the marks he got. I love Chan's skating. Him,Takahashi, Hanyu, and Buttle skate amazing when they are on. The edges, the flow, the transitions, the musicality of their programs are sublime.

    Plushenko, Stojko, Joubert, Reynolds are jumping beans that don't really focus on the artistic part of skating but I can't negate that this is a sport so while the Canuck in me is happy that Chan won gold. Silver would have been cool too.

    No matter what the placement for Chan was here, 1st to 3rd ( IMHO he deserved to be on the podium), Canada had a very successful world's so that was all I cared about.

    I chalk Chan's win like Hamilton in Sarajevo. Or Witt in Calgary. If figures hadn't been in the sport, Orser would have won in 1984 and Manley would have won in 1988.

    Ten would have won if it had been just the LP in 2013.

    If anything I hope this fires up Chan. If he wins in Sochi with that...gawd help us all.
    ~I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.~ (Charles R. Swindoll)

  5. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Wow, did some Canadians steal your maple syrup or something?
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  6. #206

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    I think a real gentleman would have kept his mouth shut and just let his skating do the talking for him next time the two of them meet up. I guess that's asking too much.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    Wow, did some Canadians steal your maple syrup or something?
    I am too cheap to buy real maple syrup.

  8. #208

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoGreen View Post
    Very puzzling statement. So anyone who will not compete with Chan in the next competition cannot comment on the results of Worlds, which is the most important figure skating competition of the year?
    Oh my, no. I guess our language differences are skewing the way you are interpreting me. What I am saying is that a more admirable behavior would be to be silent and just let my own skating - against whomever-do the talking for me. I think Plushy feels threatened by Chan because Chan has had a lot of success lately whether anyone thinks he has deserved it or not. If Plushenko can keep his health intact for Sochi, it will be quite the story, a head to head battle between the 2. It's just typical competitive BS trash talk. Athletes do it all the time. But since so many are relagating Plushneko to Godlike status, I was hoping he would also show more class, but then.....well, he is who he is. Not a bad guy, just certainly not a God. Quite human in fact. I think I like that better than him being some sort of idol of perfection.

  9. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    Oh my, no. I guess our language differences are skewing the way you are interpreting me. What I am saying is that a more admirable behavior would be to be silent and just let my own skating - against whomever-do the talking for me. I think Plushy feels threatened by Chan because Chan has had a lot of success lately whether anyone thinks he has deserved it or not. If Plushenko can keep his health intact for Sochi, it will be quite the story, a head to head battle between the 2. It's just typical competitive BS trash talk. Athletes do it all the time. But since so many are relagating Plushneko to Godlike status, I was hoping he would also show more class, but then.....well, he is who he is. Not a bad guy, just certainly not a God. Quite human in fact. I think I like that better than him being some sort of idol of perfection.
    I don't think Plushenko feels threatened by Chan. Plushenko is on record saying he doesn't think Gold is possible in Sochi... I think Plushenko is frankly saying what he thinks, that Chan didn't earn this win.

    Its not like Chan's never criticized Plushenko. I'm not sure what Plushenko would be threatened about. I think Plushenko understands his own abilities and what is possible not possible.

  10. #210
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    Michelle Kwan!

  11. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    Oh my, no. I guess our language differences are skewing the way you are interpreting me. What I am saying is that a more admirable behavior would be to be silent and just let my own skating - against whomever-do the talking for me. I think Plushy feels threatened by Chan because Chan has had a lot of success lately whether anyone thinks he has deserved it or not. If Plushenko can keep his health intact for Sochi, it will be quite the story, a head to head battle between the 2. It's just typical competitive BS trash talk. Athletes do it all the time. But since so many are relagating Plushneko to Godlike status, I was hoping he would also show more class, but then.....well, he is who he is. Not a bad guy, just certainly not a God. Quite human in fact. I think I like that better than him being some sort of idol of perfection.
    This is nonsense. It was very important that people call Lysaceks bullcrap and his win nonsense bullcrap. Now skating is back to normal with jumps with quads in sp and lp! Men's skating is back to normal. Thanks mainly to plushenko and stojko not being "oh I am so happy with silver" and stojko being "I'm so happy with he results!" but plushenko competing and saying it made so much more impact!! Like Joubert said the same thing but not on the Olympic level! Fs as sport needed plushenkos comments and his clean skating in Vancouver with no falls or stepouts or doubles- better than in Torino which had step out and doubling made his words mean more!! He helped put men's skating back to normal! Not any bullcrap pr training saying like quadlessness is ok and no big deal! They were very big deals!
    Last edited by caseyedwards; 03-22-2013 at 03:28 AM.

  12. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    jumps wig quads
    You get extra points for doing a quad while wearing a wig?

    Fs as sport needed plushenkos comments and his clean skating in Vancouver with no falls or stepouts or doubles- better than in Torino which had step out and doubling made his words mean more!! He helped put men's skating back to normal! Not any bullcrap pr training saying like quadlessness is ok and no big deal! They were very big deals!
    Uh, um....what?!?!
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    People can sacrifice their lives for whatever reason or cause. Doesn't necessarily mean they earn respect. It has to be earnt. I think Plushenko has done his fair share of things in the past that have lessened the respect people have for him. For example demonstrating very poor sportsmanship after Olympics such as the things he said about why he didn't win or his antics on the podium at Vancouver. But then it is all about perceptions and what one might think is justified others will consider it disrespectful.
    Definitely. I mean I respect him as an athlete, a competitor and a jumper, but not at all as a skater, an artist or even a sportsman.

    And his skating and his ideal of what is good skating seems very dated. Yes, jumps and charisma (subjective) are important in competitive skating, but they are not everything. Edges matter. Ice coverage matters. 1 foot skating matters. Skating in both directions matters. Choreography matters. In-betweens matter. Spins matter. Quality matters. With how his programs were constructed and presented in 2006 and 2010, it just seems like he was quite clueless as to what the judges and the system really wanted - especially in 2010 with all the trash talk on why he believed he should have won.

  14. #214

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    You mean with plushenkos level 4 spins in Vancouver ? I think its obvious he knows spins matter and that's why he got level 4's on his spins. And why his step sequences weren't below level 3. And he had choreo and everything. The total package. Acting like plushenko got level 1 spins or his spins got no points is ludicrous.

  15. #215

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    This is nonsense. It was very important that people call Lysaceks bullcrap and his win nonsense bullcrap. Now skating is back to normal with jumps wig quads in sp and lp! Men's skating is back to normal. Thanks mainly to plushenko and stojko not being "oh I am so happy with silver" and stojko being "I'm so happy with he results!" but plushenko competing and saying it made so much more impact!! Like Joubert said the same thing but not on the Olympic level! Fs as sport needed plushenkos comments and his clean skating in Vancouver with no falls or stepouts or doubles- better than in Torino which had step out and doubling made his words mean more!! He helped put men's skating back to normal! Not any bullcrap pr training saying like quadlessness is ok and no big deal! They were very big deals!
    Men's skating "back to normal?" My goodness. Whatever does that mean? What's normal and who is normal? In what universe is there a certifiable "normal" for any skating discipline? I think the word "normal" is the last word I would ever use for figure skating, and I think that's one reason I love it. I absolutely believe Plushy feels threatened by Chan. I'm NOT saying Chan is the better skater. I'm saying Chan is being touted as the more "complete" skater because of COP, even when he is gifted with wins he might not deserve. Chan when he is "on" is doing all the things Plushenko is criticized for not doing. And doing them brilliantly. And, it's the judges doing the "gifting" remember. I just think Plushenko is so competitive that if a 13 year old girl won the men's free skate, Plushenko would find something to comment on to put her down and elevate himself. That's pretty normal with hyper-competitive types. And please note-I am being sarcastic and not realistic...

  16. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    This is nonsense. It was very important that people call Lysaceks bullcrap and his win nonsense bullcrap. Now skating is back to normal with jumps with quads in sp and lp! Men's skating is back to normal. Thanks mainly to plushenko and stojko not being "oh I am so happy with silver" and stojko being "I'm so happy with he results!" but plushenko competing and saying it made so much more impact!! Like Joubert said the same thing but not on the Olympic level! Fs as sport needed plushenkos comments and his clean skating in Vancouver with no falls or stepouts or doubles- better than in Torino which had step out and doubling made his words mean more!! He helped put men's skating back to normal! Not any bullcrap pr training saying like quadlessness is ok and no big deal! They were very big deals!
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  17. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    Men's skating "back to normal?" My goodness. Whatever does that mean? What's normal and who is normal? In what universe is there a certifiable "normal" for any skating discipline? I think the word "normal" is the last word I would ever use for figure skating, and I think that's one reason I love it. I absolutely believe Plushy feels threatened by Chan. I'm NOT saying Chan is the better skater. I'm saying Chan is being touted as the more "complete" skater because of COP, even when he is gifted with wins he might not deserve. Chan when he is "on" is doing all the things Plushenko is criticized for not doing. And doing them brilliantly. And, it's the judges doing the "gifting" remember. I just think Plushenko is so competitive that if a 13 year old girl won the men's free skate, Plushenko would find something to comment on to put her down and elevate himself. That's pretty normal with hyper-competitive types. And please note-I am being sarcastic and not realistic...
    Yeah back to normal in that there is evidence of trying hard and technical progress from skaters.

    Chan and plushenko do have a history but plushenko is not alone here! Other skaters past and present are saying the same thing. Weir could compete against Chan too and he said the same thing!

  18. #218
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    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  19. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Definitely. I mean I respect him as an athlete, a competitor and a jumper, but not at all as a skater, an artist or even a sportsman.

    And his skating and his ideal of what is good skating seems very dated. Yes, jumps and charisma (subjective) are important in competitive skating, but they are not everything. Edges matter. Ice coverage matters. 1 foot skating matters. Skating in both directions matters. Choreography matters. In-betweens matter. Spins matter. Quality matters. With how his programs were constructed and presented in 2006 and 2010, it just seems like he was quite clueless as to what the judges and the system really wanted - especially in 2010 with all the trash talk on why he believed he should have won.
    In 2006, people forget Plushenko was coming off a bad injury. And was having to get use to a new system. I think Plushenko was trying to just skate clean and win. Mishin said something like the new system doesn't appreciate artistry so we will just load up the jumps. And in 2010, I do think it was a physical issue.

    Plush may talk up jumps because its what he does best too.

    Are you sure that's his idea of skating? I remember reading an article where Plushenko criticized Joubert beating Lambiel in 2004, saying that Lambiel does everything better than Joubert. I also remember Mishin calling Kozuka "wonderful"...The thing is Plushenko maybe is all about jumps because its what he can do best and his age. Back when he was coming up it was all important.

    But I wouldn't assume he can't appreciate others, he's praised Chan's skating in the past.

    As for Chan being the complete skater, I don't see him as that. When he skates well, but I don't think programs that constantly have multiple major errors is a sign of "completeness"

    I wouldn't call Plushenko a good sport at all. But you know what, Chan isn't either. Saying he is on record saying Dennis made the same amount of mistakes as him, and he best Dennis is "kicking himself"

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Definitely. I mean I respect him as an athlete, a competitor and a jumper, but not at all as a skater, an artist or even a sportsman.

    And his skating and his ideal of what is good skating seems very dated. Yes, jumps and charisma (subjective) are important in competitive skating, but they are not everything. Edges matter. Ice coverage matters. 1 foot skating matters. Skating in both directions matters. Choreography matters. In-betweens matter. Spins matter. Quality matters. With how his programs were constructed and presented in 2006 and 2010, it just seems like he was quite clueless as to what the judges and the system really wanted - especially in 2010 with all the trash talk on why he believed he should have won.
    Bingo.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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