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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    = I know many long-time fans who have lost interest in figure skating mainly because of this. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here.
    Thank you for reading. It's really not about blaming this or that, it's about loosing that beautiful feeling when it comes to figure skating; and about trying to find ways to improve an obviously faulty system.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElizabethAnne View Post
    I have seen many performances that moved me more than that of the winner but I can usually figure out why these performances didn't "win" according to the rules. That's ok. They don't have to win the competition in order to win your heart.
    I did too; but the number of those memorable - left aside - grew over the last years. And I'm not sure I like that. After all, in some years, only the statistics will remain; and I'd love to have the feeling the statistics are accurate.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    What's your suggestion?! Bring it here!
    I'd love to have the perfect solution for that. Improving the system - that's for sure. I'm quoting from Jackie Wong from the Examiner now:
    "Cleanness is not rewarded enough and mistakes aren't penalized enough. There just isn't enough of a range of penalties to properly separate the egregiousness of mistakes".
    The rest of the article, here: http://www.examiner.com/article/opining-on-worlds-the-plight-and-misuse-of-program-components?CID=examiner_alerts_article

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    If skating wants to be taken more seriously as a sport, it needs to be more rules and mathematically driven (objective) than artistically driven (subjective). That's how the integrity of the sport is maintained..
    Agree. Mathematics, but up to a point. When the majority doesn't understand, we have a problem. After all, you can't make the audience take a class in advance, in order to be prepared to watch an event.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    To revive popularity, I view the key shouldn't be drama (off ice), but artistry (on ice). Rules need to allow creativity and variety. Most skaters have the same spins now. While it's good for direct comparison, it isn't interesting. Steps are too complicated and taking too long .
    Once again, agree. Especially when it comes to ice dance.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    I don't know the answers to all this, but is figure skating suppose to be an effort to conform to certain athletic technical rules, or is it supposed to be focused on what pleases audiences? I am keenly aware of the difference in the simplicity of, say, track and field events with the more complex rules of figure skating. I also know that if figure skating doesn't please audiences, isn't good at marketing itself, it will cease to exist. Is this because it's a lot harder to attract participants who need a huge amount of money to take lessons, buy equipment, pay for conditioning programs? Running track is a lot simpler and more accessible.

    I keep thinking of the line from "Strictly Ballroom," which stated "Those crowd pleasing steps!"

    Should skaters try to please audiences or judges? Pretty schizaphrenic. It's a mess. But, I believe a more appealing, beautiful and glamorous mess than playing soccer. To me, it might depend on whom we are trying to please: judges for validation or audiences for building a future existence? Considering the judging seems to be iffy, are audiences more important? I have no clue. Just guessing.
    I love your comment; and I share your dilemmas. But, with the new judging system it's more about skaters and judges. I mean, they are performances loved by the audience (the same "Blues for Klook" of Mr. Takahashi last year in Nice), but not that much appreciated by the panel of judges. And my fear is that this kind of performances will eventually disappear under the pression coming from the scoring system. I don't know. I really don't know.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    It is a SPORT. If you want joy and emotion, you need to go to a show. .
    I used to get joy of emotion out of figure skating; and I miss that feeling.
    I still get joy and emotion watching FS; but that feeling turns quickly into frustration. That I don't like.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by somcutza View Post
    I used to get joy of emotion out of figure skating; and I miss that feeling.
    I still get joy and emotion watching FS; but that feeling turns quickly into frustration. That I don't like.
    You know what? Because you have rooted for the wrong skater!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post

    As for returning to 6.0, I fail to see why we should return to a system that makes it so much easier to cheat when the crux of the problem all along is poor / corrupt judging.
    I don't see how COP really solved the cheating issue. If anything, I think it's much easier to manipulate because one can rationalize one's score much easier under COP and gives the judges more means to do so. Also, jump calls and levels are up to the callers' discretion that that can be really iffy. They really control who wins the gold medal and who comes in 7th and is inconsistent depending on who the skater is.

    I think it's funny that people acknowledge the cheating and politicking was a huge problem under 6.0 but act like all-of-a-sudden those things disappear with COP just because more arithmetic is involved.

  9. #29
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    The OP is a mixture of naivete and rose-tinted nostalgia.

    Quote Originally Posted by somcutza View Post
    The scores don’t seem to represent what we’ve just seen on the ice
    No, you're simply not noticing a lot of things which do matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by somcutza View Post
    Why should we watch figure skating if (the impression is) the dices are already thrown?
    Because that's the kind of sport that it is. It takes years and years of hard work to acquire various figure skating skills. You can't expect skaters to suddenly forget everything that they have learned between one competition and another. It's not realistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by somcutza View Post
    I miss simplicity in figure skating
    You're reconstructing the past. There were many many more issues with 6.0 in compared to now.

    And figure skating never was and never will be a simple sport.

    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I think it's much easier to manipulate because one can rationalize one's score much easier under COP and gives the judges more means to do so.
    This sentence doesn't make any sense. If you can rationalise your score, then that score is perfectly valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Also, jump calls and levels are up to the callers' discretion that that can be really iffy. They really control who wins the gold medal and who comes in 7th and is inconsistent depending on who the skater is.
    Everything can be really iffy. What do you mean by 'is inconsistent depending on who the skater is?' Some skaters cheat and some don't. Blame the skaters and not the callers.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    This sentence doesn't make any sense. If you can rationalise your score, then that score is perfectly valid.
    Rationalizing means one is attempting to explain or justify something based on logical or rational reasons but is not always true. People rationalize illogical or inappropriate behavior all the time in an attempt to justify it.



    Everything can be really iffy. What do you mean by 'is inconsistent depending on who the skater is?' Some skaters cheat and some don't. Blame the skaters and not the callers.
    Yes, everything can be iffy, so let's not pretend COP does away with reputation scoring, political maneuvering, or is at the basic level, any more objective than 6.0 was. As for some skaters cheat and some don't, that's a gross oversimplification and you know it. I've seen you decrying bad calling in the past, and there have been cases of higher-ranked skaters or at least skaters in favor getting the benefit-of-doubt over other skaters for similar quality jumps or levels. Then there's PCS where people on this forum continue to argue is not scored correctly with the most obvious example being the transition score.

  11. #31
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    Isn't a 7,000 seat arena rather small especially for a World Championship? I can remember attending SOI & COI in Spokane several years ago & the place would be packed. I believe it is a 10,000 seat arena. Did Skate Canada make money for organizing 2013 Worlds?

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Holley Calmes View Post
    I also know that if figure skating doesn't please audiences, isn't good at marketing itself, it will cease to exist.
    Well, it would cease to exist as a spectator sport.

    As long as skaters are willing to pay money to take lessons, practice, enter competitions, etc., it will continue to exist as a participant sport.

    Maybe on the level of most other Winter Olympic sports.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrywidow View Post
    Isn't a 7,000 seat arena rather small especially for a World Championship? I can remember attending SOI & COI in Spokane several years ago & the place would be packed. I believe it is a 10,000 seat arena. Did Skate Canada make money for organizing 2013 Worlds?
    It holds just over 9,000 for hockey and skating events. It always irritates me to see that some of the best seats are held for corporate sponsors, federations, ISU, etc., and they sit empty most of the time. I know it's the way of things but it's a waste IMO.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Well, it would cease to exist as a spectator sport.

    As long as skaters are willing to pay money to take lessons, practice, enter competitions, etc., it will continue to exist as a participant sport.

    Maybe on the level of most other Winter Olympic sports.
    That's probably the direction figure skating is going. And ISU has already sensed that's coming and has accepted it. I, for one, believe that figure skating won't ever die. As long as there are organized competitions, there will be participants.

  15. #35
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    Is it true that $peedy requested a 2 year extension of his current term because he cannot run for the next term due to his age?

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehdtkqorl123 View Post
    Is it true that $peedy requested a 2 year extension of his current term because he cannot run for the next term due to his age?
    Peter Murray ‏@blazingblades says: Post-Worlds unfortunate fact: Cinquanta to remain in office thru Summer of 2016.

    And there's an article from 2012 explaining:
    http://www.examiner.com/article/inte...a-dictatorship

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbd1235 View Post
    I have no comment for this. But I'd like to say that worlds in London was SOLD OUT and the crowd was LOOOOOUUUUUUDDDDDD.

    There were a lot of happy campers in that building. Now tell me again the arena's are empty.....
    I was there all week long and saw many empty seats...
    Nubka - Unpaid Slave Laborer...

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    Well, it would cease to exist as a spectator sport.

    As long as skaters are willing to pay money to take lessons, practice, enter competitions, etc., it will continue to exist as a participant sport.

    Maybe on the level of most other Winter Olympic sports.
    Every single sport tries extremely hard (or at least should try) to become very popular withe the audiences because this means more media coverage, followers, publicity, money, power, influence.
    It would be unbelievable stupid for figure skating, which does have the goods to be an extremely popular sport, to take the approach you suggest!

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Yes, everything can be iffy, so let's not pretend COP does away with reputation scoring, political maneuvering, or is at the basic level, any more objective than 6.0 was.
    I'm genuinely interested in knowing how you think the political manuevering or cheating in the judging takes place now? Under 6.0 there were simply two marks, that really meant nothing since they were simply used to place the skater in the order that the judge felt they should be so scrutiny of the mark wasn't really useful except in comparison to that own judges marks. It was fairly simple to rank skaters in a pre agreed order (if there was colusion or politcal pressure).

    I just don't understand how, even getting a majority of judges together they could even begin to agree how to manipulate the system these days - in a free skating programme you have what 13 tehcnical elements that a man must complete. With the GOE of those elements needing to be in line with what the skater does on the ice and gets called. If the fall on every jump, you're not going to be able to give positive GOEs and anything higher than -3 or -2 for that would raise suspicions and likely get you into trouble after the event. The PCS are probably more likely to be open to maniupulation but they're not going to swing it all the way - the technical would still be important and need to go a certain way. I just don't understand how the judges could come up with a way to mess with the system in any way near as easy a way as 6.0 was.

    Does that mean I think COP is untouchable? Aboslutely not, there are flaws that need fixing, but it has to be much more difficult to cheat/collude using COP than under 6.0.

  20. #40
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    I agree antmanb- I really think there is still bias, and well reputed skaters get the benefit of the doubt, but I just don't see blatant cheating when I look at the protocols.

    Especially in events where day a dance team wins by like half a point- and it is obviously politicking. Um- I just don't think judges are good enough at math, or that well organized, for that to happen.

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