Chan best career, Lysacek worst
Chan best career, Joubert worst
Chan best career, Takahashi worst
Lambiel best career, Lysacek worst
Lambiel best career, Joubert worst
Lambiel best career, Takahashi worst
Takahashi best career, Lysacek worst
Takahashi best career, Joubert worst
Lysacek best career, Takahashi or Lambiel worst
Lysacek best career, Joubert worst
Joubert best career, Takahashi or Lambiel worst
Joubert best career, Lysacek worst
Lambiel came pretty close in 2006. I know he wasn't completely clean in the SP, but I loved that program and performance.
Not all the QR performances on readily available on youtube, but I think Yagudin in 2002 and Plushenko in 2001 (maybe 2003 also) were probably the cleanest all-around worlds performances I remember that included 3 phases. (probably why they're not in this poll lol)
I think all five men have done a lot in their careers but in different ways, and there's no point in comparing Lambiel's artistic achievements, Chan's technical mastery, Joubert's consistent podium finishes at major events, Lycasek winning everything there is to win and Dai's all-around wizardry and impact in Japan. Certainly I'm not going to call any of them the worst. Not even Lysacek
Joubert skated well in 2006, and PCS tended to be lower in the first years of the IJS, with less differentiation between top skaters. Anyway, the point isn't whether the scoring was correct, only that the QR ended up being the difference.
Well thank god it did since Joubert winning over Lambiel how he skated would have been another scandal for the sport. Here are the protocals and as you can see the downgrade:
Which was never justified or even possible:
Joubert skated well. Lambiel skated well. Neither of them winning would have been a scandal by any stretch of the imagination. And is there really any need to rehash 2006 Worlds, of all things?
Given that tech panels were not as strict back in 2006, I'll assume that the replays they saw supported a downgrade.
I thought the tech panels were pretty harsh about downgrades back then? Weren't people always complaining about how triples got downgraded AND would receive negative GOEs as badly done doubles? Lambiel's axel in the LP looked clean to me (less than 45 degree underroated).
Last edited by shine; 03-11-2014 at 09:20 PM.
I don't recall a lot of downgrades back in the early years of the IJS, but it was so long ago, who knows
Ah, but I was responding to moviechick's post: "Yeah, and it was really not common to see skaters actually win worlds with brilliant performances in all 3 phases of competition."
She didn't say winning with "the best" performances in all 3 phases or being 1st in all 3, but "brilliant performances", which I thought Stephane did.
Anyway, I'm glad that both Lambiel and Joubert won world titles. I think that's a fair reflection of their careers and what they did in skating.
I can't really bring myself to vote for any of these men as having the worst career, but I'm actually surprised at how many chose Evan as having the worst. He's my least favorite skater of the lot, but to me he's had the most satisfying career. He's basically won everything there was to win and probably has no regrets, unlike some of these other guys on the list - that's gotta count for something.
Plus, he's the only one in this poll who will (for now anyway) go down in history as OGM. The Olympics may be overrated, but I'll bet good money Chan would be willing to trade at least 2 of his World titles for that OGM (perhaps the two he won controversially?) - like it or not, it IS the ultimate, most coveted prize for most skaters, and I for one do value it over a couple (even a few) world titles (PS. I think Aliona Savchenko agrees with me on that one).
I dont think Evan is completely satisfied with his career. If he did he wouldnt have tried so hard to come back, even against the odds. If anything Lambiel, Takahashi, Chan, and Joubert all seem more satisfied as they are all retiring on their own terms, and dont seem desperate to have something more to prove. Evan seemed too desperate to carry out an ultimately no hoper comeback for me to believe he is so satisfied with his career as you believe.
There are some people (not most but a few) who think Michelle Kwan still had a better career than Yu Na Kim despite that Kim trumps her not only at the Olympics but everywhere but one event (Worlds). Well if that is the case then pretty much everyone should think Evan who is trumped by all these guys everywhere but the Olympics (again one event, even if the biggest) hasnt had a better career than any of them.
I dont think Chan would trade his 2 of his world titles for the Olympic Gold. Maybe if they were spread out more, but as it is winning 3 World titles in a row followed by an Olympic silver is a bigger legacy than winning say the 2011 worlds and 2014 Olympics would ever be. It is a sign of true dominance, something none of these others ever enjoyed. He won almost everything there was to win this quad and will go down as the dominant skater of the quad, despite "only" the Olympic silver. Evan will not go down as the dominant skater of the 2007-2010 quad. That already shows Chan has clearly had the better career, and probably the best of all these guys, like him or not. Lambiel and Takahashi also werent the dominant skater of any quad, but they were alteast big forces over two different quads while you only think of Evan as even a force in the post Turin quad, despite his out of nowhere bronze at the bizarre 2005 worlds.
Satisfaction could be more monetary related though not necessarily career. We all know figure skating is at an ebb in the US and for an American male skater, it's not as easy to just retire comfortably as it used to be. Certainly not the way skaters in Europe and Asia can these days.
It seems most think Lysacek or Joubert had the poorest career. I am surprised more dont think Takahashi had the worst. In terms of just results it would probably be him. He has an Olympic medal but it is only a bronze. Joubert has so many World medals and European medals. I think you could argue any of those three as having the least excellent (I prefer that term, poor is ridiculous for any of them) career of these five, but my choice would probably be Takahashi as the least excellent, moreso than Lysacek or Joubert.
I went with Evan best, as he's the only one who got the ogm, plus a world title and is somewhat lucky to have both being not the most naturally talented skater.
I picked Brian for worst as he has no oly medals at all, only one wc and really stagnated toward the end, perhaps just staying in too long. He also seemed the most "just a jumper" out of this bunch.
I'd put Patrick in second as he has an oly silver and 3 WC titles plus all that talent. Dai comes in 3rd as he has less hardware than chan, better artistry IMHO, but also had a bit of that Joubert "stayed beyond his prime" vibe going.
In terms of 'Career', the ranking is Chan, Lysacek, Lambiel, Takahashi, and Joubert. In terms of delivery (actual performances, skating level, and should-be titles rather than official titles), Lysacek and Takahashi should swap spots.