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  1. #481

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    Why do you think this would bring in more viewers? People are more interested in the judging than the skating?
    No, but they are interested in the judging, too. Part of the whole viewing experience used to be seeing how the judges from the different countries marked the skaters. Of course, the skaters matter as well. The two are not mutually exclusive.
    Last edited by giselle23; 04-03-2013 at 02:40 AM.

  2. #482
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    Many of us have been predicting the eventual demise of skating as a result of the "new" judging system, and many on this board and elsewhere have been mocking us. No doubt there are many forces at play, but it's crashing even faster than I thought. The judges can't prop up the sport, but they are hiding behind anonymity and propping up the skaters they want with more impunity than ever. That's why Patrick Chan can mess up as badly as he did at Worlds (and sometimes worse) and still always beat his best competitors. That's because the world is looking the other way. In 2002, the pair scandal resulted in a second gold medal for Sale & Pelletier. The reason for it was not the admission of the French judge and all that crap. It was the fact that the whole world witnessed the injustice. Now the ISU thinks they can go under the radar screen with their atrocities. Let's show them we're watching and we know. Please sign this petition to award the gold to the true winner of the men's competition at Worlds, Dennis Ten:

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/760/2...championships/

    Thank you.

  3. #483

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    Is that Monica Friedlander visiting us promoting her own petition?
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  4. #484

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    Quote Originally Posted by saveskating View Post
    The judges can't prop up the sport, but they are hiding behind anonymity
    This from someone who writes a news story about the petition without mentioning that she herself started the petition Give me a break.

    Please sign this petition to award the gold to the true winner of the men's competition at Worlds, Dennis Ten:
    If you're going to keep playing at being a journalist, you might try to spell his first name correctly. It's "Denis".
    Last edited by overedge; 04-03-2013 at 01:57 AM.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  5. #485
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    Someone needs to start a petition saving us from American "journalists" who are ruining the sport of figure skating. So sick of seeing these stupid posts whining ignorantly about a "new" system that has been around for a decade now. Educate yourselves, learn it and if that is too much work for gods sake find another sport to follow so those of us who are fans and took a moment to figure things out can enjoy it without hearing constant tantrums in the corner from a few dinosaurs who still think the world is flat.

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by saveskating View Post
    Many of us have been predicting the eventual demise of skating as a result of the "new" judging system, and many on this board and elsewhere have been mocking us. No doubt there are many forces at play, but it's crashing even faster than I thought. The judges can't prop up the sport, but they are hiding behind anonymity and propping up the skaters they want with more impunity than ever. That's why Patrick Chan can mess up as badly as he did at Worlds (and sometimes worse) and still always beat his best competitors. That's because the world is looking the other way. In 2002, the pair scandal resulted in a second gold medal for Sale & Pelletier. The reason for it was not the admission of the French judge and all that crap. It was the fact that the whole world witnessed the injustice. Now the ISU thinks they can go under the radar screen with their atrocities. Let's show them we're watching and we know. Please sign this petition to award the gold to the true winner of the men's competition at Worlds, Dennis Ten:

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/760/2...championships/

    Thank you.
    Hi Monica. So you think that the ISU commits atrocities? Take a little break and breathe a bit.

    If you can recognize that a big scandal happened in 2002 under the old judging system, you can realize that the decline of skating isn't caused by the IJS and skating won't be revived simply by changing the judging the system.

    When you are calling skating judging controversies atrocities you really aren't looking at things with any perspective.
    Congratulations 2014 World Ice Dance Champions Anna Cappellini & Luca Lanotte!!!

  7. #487
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    I find it really ironic that you would rant about judges hiding behind anonymity while promoting a petition you created under a name other than your own, Ms. Friedlander.

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    Since this Monica person has been bashing Patrick left and right for some time, I have to wonder about the motive behind this petition and it can't get any more pathetic to try to promote this by specially creating an account here under another name. Like overedge said, if this is about awarding a gold to Denis, she would have at least had the decency to spell his name right, shame on her.
    Last edited by fscric; 04-03-2013 at 03:18 AM.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    This from someone who writes a news story about the petition without mentioning that she herself started the petition Give me a break.


    With all due respect, Monica, this is beyond shady.

  10. #490

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    Maybe we should start a thread about Monica. However we all must post under a cloud of anononononmimity (I can't spell that word let alone say it).
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  11. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by saveskating View Post
    Many of us have been predicting the eventual demise of skating as a result of the "new" judging system, and many on this board and elsewhere have been mocking us. No doubt there are many forces at play, but it's crashing even faster than I thought. The judges can't prop up the sport, but they are hiding behind anonymity and propping up the skaters they want with more impunity than ever. That's why Patrick Chan can mess up as badly as he did at Worlds (and sometimes worse) and still always beat his best competitors. That's because the world is looking the other way. In 2002, the pair scandal resulted in a second gold medal for Sale & Pelletier. The reason for it was not the admission of the French judge and all that crap. It was the fact that the whole world witnessed the injustice. Now the ISU thinks they can go under the radar screen with their atrocities. Let's show them we're watching and we know. Please sign this petition to award the gold to the true winner of the men's competition at Worlds, Dennis Ten:

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/760/2...championships/

    Thank you.
    Desperate, hun?!

    Your personal hatred is obvious. Don't use "save skating" to cover it up!



    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Maybe we should start a thread about Monica.
    And a poll about this "petition".
    Last edited by Eyre; 04-03-2013 at 03:58 AM.

  12. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly
    If you want "great" component scores, then you need to improve your skating skills, choreography, etc., up to that level, not just execute the elements cleanly.
    I just think PCS is subjective and skaters with good skating skills and choreo are not being given their due PCS wise. Take skating skills. Sasha, who most people on his board agree has weak skating skills, got the same score for skating skills as Shizuka and Irina did. Most would not agree that Sasha's skating skills are the same level as Shizuka's. And because of subjective PCS judgments, some skaters would theoretically have to execute one or two additional 3Lutz-3Toes to make up that PCS deficit.

  13. #493

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    And a poll about this "petition".
    Don't tempt me

    I have officially declared Ms Friedlander's post as the most amusing thing I have come across today.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Don't tempt me
    Oh, hardly. I was actually tempted by you.

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    It is definitely a big deal if skating is not on TV any more. Selling TV rights is a way for a sport to make money.
    But ISU has sold the rights and got it's money. They've gotten a ton of money from Japan and other countries as well as the US. It gets it's money whether or not Universal Sports actually shows the skating or not. And they just negotiated a better contract that starts in 2014 that is not only good for them but it actually good for us because now we can see everything on Ice Network and won't be held hostage to US's failed attempts to grow their network and whatever politics were going on between them and NBC.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  16. #496

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    Quote Originally Posted by saveskating View Post
    Many of us have been predicting the eventual demise of skating as a result of the "new" judging system, and many on this board and elsewhere have been mocking us. No doubt there are many forces at play, but it's crashing even faster than I thought. The judges can't prop up the sport, but they are hiding behind anonymity and propping up the skaters they want with more impunity than ever. That's why Patrick Chan can mess up as badly as he did at Worlds (and sometimes worse) and still always beat his best competitors. That's because the world is looking the other way. In 2002, the pair scandal resulted in a second gold medal for Sale & Pelletier. The reason for it was not the admission of the French judge and all that crap. It was the fact that the whole world witnessed the injustice. Now the ISU thinks they can go under the radar screen with their atrocities. Let's show them we're watching and we know. Please sign this petition to award the gold to the true winner of the men's competition at Worlds, Dennis Ten:

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/760/2...championships/

    Thank you.
    Hi Ms Friedlander,

    Please stop calling yourself a journalist. You're making the rest of us look bad.

    On the flip side, if you hate skating so much and don't wanna do your job anymore, I'm looking.

  17. #497

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    But ISU has sold the rights and got it's money. They've gotten a ton of money from Japan and other countries as well as the US. It gets it's money whether or not Universal Sports actually shows the skating or not. And they just negotiated a better contract that starts in 2014 that is not only good for them but it actually good for us because now we can see everything on Ice Network and won't be held hostage to US's failed attempts to grow their network and whatever politics were going on between them and NBC.
    I doubt if politics are involved. It is no doubt about money.

  18. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by iloveemoticons View Post
    I just think PCS is subjective and skaters with good skating skills and choreo are not being given their due PCS wise. Take skating skills. Sasha, who most people on his board agree has weak skating skills, got the same score for skating skills as Shizuka and Irina did. Most would not agree that Sasha's skating skills are the same level as Shizuka's. And because of subjective PCS judgments, some skaters would theoretically have to execute one or two additional 3Lutz-3Toes to make up that PCS deficit.
    Sort of like how Tara beat Michelle with a 3loop-3loop and a triple toe/half loop/triple salchow sequence at the very end of her Olympic program? Team Tara knew what they were up against.

    People made the same complaints about Presentation marks and Artistic Impression before that.

    If you are talking about the 2006 Olympics, Sasha got lower scores for skating skills than Irina and Shizuka in both the short and long programs. The score wasn't hugely lower, but "weak" is relative. Sasha had some weaknesses in SS, but not all. I do think the judges need work on PCS judging, but I don't see how Presentation or Artistic Impression under 6.0 were any less subjective.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  19. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    The score wasn't hugely lower, but "weak" is relative. Sasha had some weaknesses in SS, but not all. I do think the judges need work on PCS judging, but I don't see how Presentation or Artistic Impression under 6.0 were any less subjective.
    In a system where criteria is meant to rate on a scale, not rank skaters, the gap in scores should reflect the criteria. Having seen both skaters live many times, Cohen was at the bottom of skating skills among the top skaters and by a stretch: Sebestyen and Volchkova, let alone Arakawa, left her in the dust in terms of blade efficiency and depth of edges, knee action, flow, and speed that resulted without compensating back-pumping or poor posture, and they and Arakawa were not slouches in terms of one-footed and multi-directional skating, nor was Slutskaya. If Cohen had closed the gap in SS by 50% she'd have had a far better skillset to present her programs, and her abilities in IN and PE were already formidable, mainly due to her attention to detail and ability to sculpt shapes and create images. Similarly, in GOE, her blatant flutz was ignored, going by the criteria. (She wasn't the only one, and underrotation and edge deductions/penalties were ignored among the top skaters going by the protocols until the tech panel took them over.)

    That the use of the current system to score the actual differences in components is weak and not much better than under 6.0 doesn't make it an either/or/why change or worse system, but the either the ISU's disinterest or political paralysis in enforcing the system properly is a disappointment.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 04-03-2013 at 06:40 PM.
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  20. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    That the use of the current system to score the actual differences in components is weak and not much better than under 6.0 doesn't make it an either/or/why change or worse system, but the either the ISU's disinterest or political paralysis in enforcing the system properly is a disappointment.
    Agreed. But the argument being put forth was that this was not nearly as much of a problem under 6.0. I don't see that at all.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

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