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  1. #761

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    Was reading a write-up on the DubeMoir blog (link here) and she had some interesting things to say about the still photographs -- along the lines of bmcg said but in more detail. A few things stood out to me like
    The screen caps aren't showing posing. They're a freeze frame of an athlete in action and they help reveal how well the athlete is executing the element, not how pretty they look during it.
    The screen cap in question shows that Charlie is hanging onto Meryl's hand with his hand and she's clutching onto his arm/shoulder with the hand that is closest to his body, and her legs are bent and sloppy. That's not just an unpretty position. That's sloppy execution.
    Tessa isn't better than Meryl because she points her freaking toes. She's better because she's doing more difficult elements and her mechanics are better, her technique is better.
    she (Meryl) looks rough because she's not doing it well or properly. She doesn't have the truncal control, the dissociative mechanics (mastery of dissociative movement is all about core stability), the balance, the ability to orient her body with her core - i.e., her head, shoulders, arms and hands.
    Some interesting points to ponder, I think. The writer makes a good case as to why many of us believe that V/M should be getting monster PCS scores at the very least.
    Crazy about sports!

  2. #762
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    I remember back when A&P were competing how it was discussed that you could take a series of photos and every one would look great. It's not about who has the prettier still shots, to get a "pretty" still shot requires a lot of control and skill on the part of the skaters. Tessa and Scott work hard and need amazing skills to make it all look so pretty, natural and easy. Never forget what Tracy Wilson said last season, that they make it look so easy and she doesn't feel the judges and others understand how difficult it is doing what they are doing because of that. It's a lot harder to do all the elements ice dancers are required to do AND do it the way Tessa and Scott do it. It's not as hard to whip around the ice on two feet and make things look busy by hopping, pulling and running around the ice. Chait and Sahknovski did it, FusarPolli and Margaglio did it. They also got rewarded for it because it seems even the judges get caught up with the illusion of it all. It's also a lot harder to notice mistakes with this "style" because their running edges are only in the step sequences. About to trip or lose your balance? Turn it into a hop

    After this season I´m not even going to pretend they are equals. I would LOVE for Marina to choreograph both teams a SD where they BOTH hop and skip and run and pull each other across the ice and a FD without one single hop, skip, run, pull involved. Where every element has to be entered and exited on an edge, on one foot, all twizzles elements consist of a series of three and then we can put to rest the notion they are so equal that it all comes down to level calls. ''

    Just needed to say that out loud.
    I would love to see this but Marina will never do that. She is good a choreography around M/C's weakness. Hopefully one day both teams will participate in an exhibition where they would do eachother's dances!

  3. #763

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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    I would love to see this but Marina will never do that. She is good a choreography around M/C's weakness. Hopefully one day both teams will participate in an exhibition where they would do eachother's dances!
    Didnt D-W skate new exibition with V-M moves and in Tessas dress?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Didnt D-W skate new exibition with V-M moves and in Tessas dress?
    And how did that comparison work out for them

  5. #765

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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    So, how do you think, when we will have information of T-S programs in CSOI? Or only when CSOI tour will start?
    I'm not expecting Carmen tbh. I feel like it will be too difficult to cut it into a show program, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do. I think we might see a new ex though.
    "They’re everything in a team that we strive to be...they are to me the quintessential ice dance team of our time."~Kaitlyn Weaver

  6. #766
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    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    Was reading a write-up on the DubeMoir blog (link here) and she had some interesting things to say about the still photographs -- along the lines of bmcg said but in more detail. A few things stood out to me like





    Some interesting points to ponder, I think. The writer makes a good case as to why many of us believe that V/M should be getting monster PCS scores at the very least.
    thank you for posting the link! everything that's on there is enough argument to educate d/w fans on why v/m are the better skaters all around and should be duly rewarded.

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    I heard that Platov said they could be the first team since them to repeat gold does anyone have the source?

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    thank you!

    i didn't say anything because i wasn't actually done. i just wanted to post those bits, because i didn't just want them to sit in my drafts till the summer. this series is so much work to put together and it felt never ending. i thought that someone would find those parts interesting, while i worked on the rest. i'm not done even now, but i finished it enough so that it's relatively complete and organized ... and i can talk about it.

    the series is called, piecing together what happened to carmen (according to the media). i went through every article i could find this season on tessa and scott's carmen and then created these posts (quotes, analysis, etc.):

    introduction: links to all the following articles are found here so you can start here and get the whole series
    skate canada
    cup of russia
    gpf
    nationals
    4cc
    worlds

    there are a few more posts. when those are done, i'll mention them. and if you know of more articles, send them to me.

    i do hope that those involved in the creation of carmen, especially jennifer swan, tessa and scott, read the debut/skate canada post so they know how much we all loved (and still love) carmen. it was incredible to write it and so moving to reread it. i'm also touched you all love it. i can probably tweet it to jennifer swan since she's on twitter. i don't know when she'll see it though. ...

    honestly, since that post is done, you can send it to whoever you wish, talk about it wherever. and since the series is organized too, you can talk about that elsewhere too. let me know what you do with it since it's nice to keep track of things like this, but feel free to spread the word.

    edited ... i write too much nowadays. this post was too long. you guys can click the links and read the info there. the blog is now in chronological order with these posts so you can just go there and start at the top and make your way down to the end.
    Last edited by iggie; 04-07-2013 at 03:53 AM.

  9. #769
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    Just a note to those who like to laugh at the people in this thread. No, the writer of the blog with the D&W analysis/secret baby theory is not the the same as the writer of the article some posters here mentioned being moved by. Too very different people. Some of you are getting so predictable and ridiculous with your snickering.

    That's all I'm going to say about that. I'd rather keep the "crazy" here in the trashcan where it belongs.

  10. #770
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    Just a note to those who like to laugh at the people in this thread. No, the writer of the blog with the D&W analysis/secret baby theory is not the the same as the writer of the article some posters here mentioned being moved by. Too very different people. Some of you are getting so predictable and ridiculous with your snickering.

    That's all I'm going to say about that. I'd rather keep the "crazy" here in the trashcan where it belongs.
    there are people who mix up the v/m bloggers? if you're going to mock us, get it straight. yes, there are two main v/m bloggers ... me and she who shall not be named.

  11. #771

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    navka stood in awe of it.
    Really? Cool! What did she say? It is especially interesting as she and Kostomorov did their own Carmen.

  12. #772
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    They thought you were the other blogger? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

  13. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    there are people who mix up the v/m bloggers? if you're going to mock us, get it straight. yes, there are two main v/m bloggers ... me and she who shall not be named.
    Yes, please keep the bloggers straight. Please.

    I do want to say that although the other blogger has had some, um, interesting things to say in the past, it's clear that she (I presume she) is very knowledgeable when it comes to skating. The analysis being done is all backed up in visual images that can be verified by simply cross-referencing the videos available to everyone on youtube and the COP, available on the net for anyone to read.

    Iggie, thank you for all the hard work you've put in going back through all of the articles to try to dissect how the narrative changed in the media as the season went along.
    Last edited by aka_gerbil; 04-07-2013 at 02:50 AM.

  14. #774

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    Just a note to those who like to laugh at the people in this thread. No, the writer of the blog with the D&W analysis/secret baby theory is not the the same as the writer of the article some posters here mentioned being moved by. Too very different people. Some of you are getting so predictable and ridiculous with your snickering.

    That's all I'm going to say about that. I'd rather keep the "crazy" here in the trashcan where it belongs.
    Sigh…again? Can't these people just take the exit to the left. But we're too crazy to give up. Whatever if we're entertaining to them, it's all good.

    Misha I'm seriously so proud of the work you've put into this. Also idk if you were here when this happened, but there was a fake Tessa on Instagram but people assumed it was the real one, Oksana G. said she loved their Carmen. I wish there was a way to ask her what she thought of it more specifically.

    ETA: Parapluies, I posted that link to the Platov article, but I don't think it works anymore. Here's where I posted it originally http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post3879262
    Last edited by Shayii; 04-07-2013 at 03:08 AM.
    "They’re everything in a team that we strive to be...they are to me the quintessential ice dance team of our time."~Kaitlyn Weaver

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    Sigh…again? Can't these people just take the exit to the left. But we're too crazy to give up. Whatever if we're entertaining to them, it's all good.

    Misha I'm seriously so proud of the work you've put into this. Also idk if you were here when this happened, but there was a fake Tessa on Instagram but people assumed it was the real one, Oksana G. said she loved their Carmen. I wish there was a way to ask her what she thought of it more specifically.

    ETA: Parapluies, I posted that link to the Platov article, but I don't think it works anymore. Here's where I posted it originally http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post3879262
    Yup it still works! Thanks! Also how old is the article?

  16. #776

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    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    Yup it still works! Thanks! Also how old is the article?
    2011? (not hundred percent sure about that). Also I meant the original link to the original article doesn't work. And for manhn you can find the Navka quote on iggie's blog:
    "i am very interesting to see what happens today in the sport. i was at the cup of russia and it was very sorry to see. there are all other skaters and then there are canadians. [the gap between tessa and scott and everyone else is just huge.] tessa virtue and scott moir, of course, an extraordinary couple, just awesome." as the 2006 olympic champion, 2-time world champion and 3-time european champion watched the canadian carmen, she was simply astonished. "emotions overwhelm me from the beginning to the end. i just stayed in the wild delight of how they relate to each other, how they relate to the ice as they relate to the program. a feeling that they just do not hear what's going on. unfortunately, no equal to them team today." just to note, navka won the olympics skating to ... carmen.
    Reading iggie's series there were some things that resonated with me, such as the double standards:
    and the zinger came with the way she highlighted meryl's quote, using it differently than the icenetwork version: "davis acknowledged that the free skate felt like a struggle on the ice. it was one of those skates where nothing came easy. we felt like we had to fight through it, but that’s okay. it’s nice to have performances like this, to know that even when it doesn’t come easily, you can fight through it.'" it's a zinger because, if you remember, at last year's worlds, tessa said something similar about her winning free and people attacked her for it. they actually used her quote to claim that even tessa thought that funny face, their then free dance, was bad and didn't deserve to win.
    Seriously though I remember how people jumped on Tessa's quote.

    Also this about Marina's confusion about the FD score from GPF:
    marina: i thought that tessa and scott were better in the free dance. powerful, inspired ... i don't understand the score difference.
    elena: so you didn't have a feeling at practices that meryl and charlie make quicker progress than their training mates?
    marina: i wouldn't say that tessa and scott have slower progress. they are making a good progress. if you look at this season's results, it becomes clear enough. the canadians started later in the season, they have more complex programs. at the same time, here, in sochi, tessa skated great at practices, as well as at the warm-ups. but in the competition something went wrong. it was a little labored.
    So what happened? Your series has given me so much to think about.
    Last edited by Shayii; 04-07-2013 at 04:50 AM.
    "They’re everything in a team that we strive to be...they are to me the quintessential ice dance team of our time."~Kaitlyn Weaver

  17. #777
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    I haven't finished reading everything yet but iggie, you are amazing. Between you and the DubeMoir blogger, there is more than enough on both sites to back up what we have been saying about V&M. It must have taken a long time to get all that down. Huge props to you.

    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    Yes, please keep the bloggers straight. Please.

    I do want to say that although the other blogger has had some, um, interesting things to say in the past, it's clear that she (I presume she) is very knowledgeable when it comes to skating. The analysis being done is all backed up in visual images that can be verified by simply cross-referencing the videos available to everyone on youtube and the COP, available on the net for anyone to read.

    Iggie, thank you for all the hard work you've put in going back through all of the articles to try to dissect how the narrative changed in the media as the season went along.
    Unfortunately, no matter how well documented both iggie's and the bloggers posts are, some people will still see what they want to. And sadly the bloggers other, um posts will only cause those people to dismiss the things she says that are actually skating oriented. It's too bad because like iggie, she has done her homework, knows skating and presents her skating arguments in a concise informative way. Both iggie and the blogger can take the ISU rulebook and with the use of video, gifs and pictures, lay it out and show why it should be favoring V&M. It has nothing to do with overzealous fans just wanting a win because we love V&M.

  18. #778

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    How such crazy person, like me, could stay away? :-) Thank you, iggie, one more time for all your job! I have impression nothing good could be tell about VM in FSU police opinion. Its sad VM didn't have wizard hairs, small dogs or they didn't talk on twitter about "go, blue!" and we have nothing to talk about :-( and still discuss VM elements and programs. And of couse, people, who love both teams, didn't see nothing good in VM skating and programs, but just happy the best ever win over and over again.
    As for Zoueva quote. She talk with journalist, who is huge DW uber at.GPF. So even if she want to say something about VM it was dismissed by Vaitscehovskay, who want to post only about how DW are better. Like with other Zoueva interview in CoR, which was made by VM uber, who wish talk only about them and how Carmen is amazing.

  19. #779

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    Or, and its.just me, who think people have right to post what they want in there blog?

  20. #780
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    Really? Cool! What did she say? It is especially interesting as she and Kostomorov did their own Carmen.
    Found the article; this was after CoR. Article

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