Page 35 of 51 FirstFirst ... 25333435363745 ... LastLast
Results 681 to 700 of 1012
  1. #681

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    In Canuck Land, hey!
    Age
    56
    Posts
    3,819
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2416
    Perhaps leafygreens would feel more comfortable in another thread -- like the one for D/W?
    Crazy about sports!

  2. #682
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest." - Ottavio Cinquanta
    Posts
    1,635
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    But COP is not meant to be an opinion-based system. There are specific criteria that are meant to be used. If everyone is correctly using the same criteria and applying them in the same, correct manner, shouldn't everyone end up at the same result? Or, at the very least, close to it?
    That's exactly what I was saying. There is no proof anywhere that judges are judging based on personal preference/opinion and not what the skaters do on the ice. When it comes to V/M & D/W, they are very close to each other in most competitions, leading me to believe the scores are based on specific criteria and not opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    Leafygreens, what are you talking about? What commentator?
    I was talking about this comment.

  3. #683
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    The airport
    Posts
    1,242
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ofdarkness View Post
    I'd like to point out that Joannie actually said that DW's program and lifts were less creative and more safe. She said their program is more conventional and what the judges are used to seeing. So basically she said all the same things that we complain about in DW, but in a more subtle way. I don't see it as being negative towards VM. As a spokesperson for a national organization, she can't really speak whatever her true opinion may be. To acknowledge a loss in a fair light, I think that's just her being Canadian.
    This.

  4. #684
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    827
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    That's exactly what I was saying. There is no proof anywhere that judges are judging based on personal preference/opinion and not what the skaters do on the ice. When it comes to V/M & D/W, they are very close to each other in most competitions, leading me to believe the scores are based on specific criteria and not opinion.
    I think we'd all have to be pretty naive or in a state of denial to think personal preference and opinion doesn't play some part. Whether intentional or not. The fact that D/W and V/M are usually so close 'leads you to believe it's based more on specific criteria'? Me, I think it's more opinion or something else, cause lately I can't find the 'specific criteria' the judges are basing their scores on either.
    Last edited by sequins; 04-04-2013 at 02:17 AM.

  5. #685
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,563
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    I think we'd all have to be pretty naive or in a state of denial to think personal preference and opinion doesn't play some part. Whether intentional or not. The fact that D/W and V/M are usually so close 'leads you to believe it's based more on specific criteria'? Me, I think it's more opinion or something else, cause lately I can't find the 'specific criteria' the judges are basing their scores on either.
    iTA

  6. #686

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Age
    64
    Posts
    616
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    5912
    Well said sequins - the "specific criteria" I thought was so important seems to go under rewarded currently.
    pug lover

  7. #687
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,449
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    can someone explain to me the names of the cuts in the carmen tessa and scott used? what's the official name of each scene/music?

  8. #688
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    141
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Some kind words about costumes from Nick Verrreos:

    http://www.nickverrreos.blogspot.ru/...u-world_3.html

    Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir of Canada--One word: WOW. Another word: Sublime. Kids, I could go on. And I will. They skated their Silver Medal-winning Free Dance to "Carmen" by Rodion Shchedrin and these ensembles were flawless. So chic, so modern and directional. We have seen those "Carmen" costumes over and over...and OVER again. So how refreshing to not see a red rose in sight, or a mantilla or lace. Yet still, through their powerful performance, you get it! This, kids, is a MODERN Carmen. Thank you very much. Now, to the Costume Change news: This sheer and solid black asymmetrical neckline dress was a change for Tessa in terms of what she had been wearing all season long for this Free Dance...
    This dress/costume she had worn for the 2012-2013 season. For the Worlds, she--and her costume designer(s) decided a new black dress would be right. I LOVED the "old" plunging neckline dress above and in fact, thought it was one of THE BEST of all the Ice Dancers this entire season.But I liked the change as well. It's always refreshing to keep the Figure Skating Costume Watchers (such as myself) on my toes, looking out for any little (costume) changes.

  9. #689

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    8,726
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1795
    Thank you! At least Tessa have not bad dress with her worst lines. Look at Meryl-Charlie SD photo - on her fingers. This will tell you all a about ballet.

  10. #690
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Riga, Latvia
    Posts
    1,322
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by ofdarkness View Post
    I'd like to point out that Joannie actually said that DW's program and lifts were less creative and more safe. She said their program is more conventional and what the judges are used to seeing. So basically she said all the same things that we complain about in DW, but in a more subtle way. I don't see it as being negative towards VM. As a spokesperson for a national organization, she can't really speak whatever her true opinion may be. To acknowledge a loss in a fair light, I think that's just her being Canadian.
    +

  11. #691
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Riga, Latvia
    Posts
    206
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by iggie View Post
    can someone explain to me the names of the cuts in the carmen tessa and scott used? what's the official name of each scene/music?
    I already posted the names of the parts some threads earlier, but here you are:
    1. Parts from: Part V - Carmen's Entrance and Habanera: Allegro moderato - Quasi andante
    2. Parts from: Part XI - Adagio: Andante moderato – Adagio
    3. Part from: Part IX - Torero: Moderato con stoltezza
    4. Parts from: Part VI - Scene: Allegro moderato - Tempo precedente - Andante assai

  12. #692
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    “It is far more important to have a good judge than a possible conflict of interest." - Ottavio Cinquanta
    Posts
    1,635
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    I think we'd all have to be pretty naive or in a state of denial to think personal preference and opinion doesn't play some part. Whether intentional or not. The fact that D/W and V/M are usually so close 'leads you to believe it's based more on specific criteria'? Me, I think it's more opinion or something else, cause lately I can't find the 'specific criteria' the judges are basing their scores on either.
    If this is true, then personal opinion played a part in all V/M's wins and they weren't actually deserved. Because you can't say that all 9 judges and tech callers for V/M wins are impartial, and all 9 judges and tech callers for D/W wins are opinionated and preferential. That kind of belief is getting into the land of ridiculousness.

  13. #693
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    The airport
    Posts
    1,242
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Everything would be so much easier if we understood, for instance, how is it that a split lift in which the skater doesn't fully extend her legs and doesn't hold position gets a level four. For example.

  14. #694
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Marseille
    Posts
    1,042
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    If this is true, then personal opinion played a part in all V/M's wins and they weren't actually deserved. Because you can't say that all 9 judges and tech callers for V/M wins are impartial, and all 9 judges and tech callers for D/W wins are opinionated and preferential. That kind of belief is getting into the land of ridiculousness.
    I think the elimination of the CD and other changes that happened in the last quadrennial allowed for judges to express their personal and biased opinion even more when judging. Also whenever V/M beat D/W its never by a landslide and it's not like V/M had won being undefeated every year.

    Quote Originally Posted by ofdarkness View Post
    I'd like to point out that Joannie actually said that DW's program and lifts were less creative and more safe. She said their program is more conventional and what the judges are used to seeing. So basically she said all the same things that we complain about in DW, but in a more subtle way. I don't see it as being negative towards VM. As a spokesperson for a national organization, she can't really speak whatever her true opinion may be. To acknowledge a loss in a fair light, I think that's just her being Canadian.
    She said their lifts were less creative but then goes on saying that they were more artistic that night Am I the only one who finds this a tad contradictory?
    Last edited by parapluies; 04-04-2013 at 05:01 PM.

  15. #695
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Riga, Latvia
    Posts
    1,322
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by parapluies View Post
    She said their lifts were less creative but then goes on saying that they were more artistic that night Am I the only one who finds this a tad contradictory?
    I don't understand French, so I can't be sure, but probably she meant expression? I won't go into debate about Meryl and Charlie's expression now, but I personally thought that, while Tessa and Scott's Worlds performance of their FD was technically the best of the season, it was not the best in terms of expression (imho - for me their Nationals performance of it remains the best in that regard, the Skate Canada performance being the second).

  16. #696
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    The airport
    Posts
    1,242
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Also, let's ask ourselves why the disparity of GOEs? How does that work? Take the diagonal step sequences. Both level 3, right? But what was it that was so lacking about V-M's that got them such low GOEs? Was it too shallow? Was it sloppy? Was it slow? What happened there? That's the question, that's our doubt: we saw a great performance that, for some reason, didn't get very good GOEs and that makes your scratch your head. I am not saying that V-M should get perfect tens and maximum GOEs, I simply do not understand, based on what I saw, those GOEs. Another example, the twizzles. Look at the GOEs there, low as well, even when the execution was pretty great, the ice coverage was phenomenal and the synchronization was perfect. Not to mention the difficulty: As, I've mentioned before, there are two changes of pace both into and out of the twizzles. The fact that they gained speed after that intro and then do a full stop coming out of them should be rewarded, don't you think? Notice I am simply mentioning elements here. What the judges do with the PCS I will never understand. I am trying to make sense of the scores based on what I saw on the ice.

  17. #697
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Riga, Latvia
    Posts
    1,322
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    Everything would be so much easier if we understood, for instance, how is it that a split lift in which the skater doesn't fully extend her legs and doesn't hold position gets a level four. For example.
    To be fair, Meryl didn't fully extend her leg not because she couldn't, but because after the first time when she did the lift in full split they were told by judges that they couldn't do two lifts in full split position in the same program. And what do you mean by "doesn't hold position"? I haven't counted the seconds, but it looks to me like she did hold the position for long enough, although the position wasn't in full split. If I understand correctly, in full split or not, it's still a position.

  18. #698
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    The airport
    Posts
    1,242
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Interesting, indeed. So, that was intentional then?

    It doesn't look like a finished movement, I don't know how to say it in English. I haven't timed it, but it looks as if it started before it ends.

  19. #699
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    827
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    If this is true, then personal opinion played a part in all V/M's wins and they weren't actually deserved. Because you can't say that all 9 judges and tech callers for V/M wins are impartial, and all 9 judges and tech callers for D/W wins are opinionated and preferential. That kind of belief is getting into the land of ridiculousness.
    You jumping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth is ridiculous. Did I say that? No I didn't. I never said 'Only D/W's wins are because of personal opinion and aren't deserved' It plays a big part in skating in general, especially ice dance and it doesn't mean that the wrong person wins all the time either. My point was I don't understand the scoring this season, the big gaps, world record scores? I don't know what they are basing it on if not a big part of it being personal preference. That, or they just don't know what the heck they are doing sometimes which sadly I think in this scoring system seems to be the case at times. Even the skaters have stated they didn't understand why they got the levels/scores that they did after certain performances because they had done it that way before and got different results. It's all very confusing at times and affects the skaters and sometimes forces them to rework their programs (case in point V/M spin, all season good, at Canadians no good. Change it. Why)I just didn't get the scoring this year in dance and not just between D/W and V/M but others as well. I don't think that's ridiculous to state and it doesn't mean I hate D/W just because I question the judging.
    Last edited by sequins; 04-04-2013 at 07:03 PM.

  20. #700

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    In Canuck Land, hey!
    Age
    56
    Posts
    3,819
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2416
    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    To be fair, Meryl didn't fully extend her leg not because she couldn't, but because after the first time when she did the lift in full split they were told by judges that they couldn't do two lifts in full split position in the same program. And what do you mean by "doesn't hold position"? I haven't counted the seconds, but it looks to me like she did hold the position for long enough, although the position wasn't in full split. If I understand correctly, in full split or not, it's still a position.
    So you would have me believe that this rotational lift is as well done as this one and that they deserve the same base (4.00) and GOE (1.36) value?
    Crazy about sports!

Page 35 of 51 FirstFirst ... 25333435363745 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •