Page 20 of 51 FirstFirst ... 10181920212230 ... LastLast
Results 381 to 400 of 1012
  1. #381
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,261
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    As he says, she tries a bit too hard and she tends to oversell it, so it doesn't look natural. The lady is the face of the team, she is the reference. Always. In both pairs and dance. In any performance, they viewer will always look at the lady first, she is in charge of finishing each movement, of making a statement because, usually, the dance is told from the lady's POV. This doesn't mean that the man is just there. A skilled partner will always be a great presenter, because his skills are consistent with those of the lady. He also has to lead and lead well. Charlie doesn't lead Meryl and he certainly doesn't present her well as a male dancer would.

    With them, it's not so much about accents and pauses. They do not make statements with their movements; their limbs do not tell a story, so the movements are sometimes aimless: she reaches out to touch his chest, but it is over before it even begins. He lifts her, but her legs and arms simply move, but her fingers and her feet don't work harmoniously. During the step sequences, her hand on his shoulder is there to grab him and complete a step. He is faster, so she needs to take more strokes to compensate, but even then, you see they are just compensating steps, not a dancing step. They are straight-forward: they do A to accomplish B to then reach C.

    With V-M, each tiny little detail has a purpose. Look at the way she simply puts her arm on his shoulder, but see how she... I don't know how to say it in English, she just has a way of setting her shoulders and arms that bring such fluidity to her hands, so they are like a feather on his shoulder. That's a tiny detail that you would think matters very little, but when you see them move, that's what makes the dance so graceful from the waist up. That posture is NOT easy and hold it for 4 minutes, on skates, that's VERY tough. But she can and she does. And this is just an example. We could talk hours about the many details and nuances each V-M dance has. They don't skate from A to be to C. A must mean something and they deconstruct that meaning and tell you, "and this is why B happens", see the difference? Again, I am not sure I am explaining myself too well. It's hard for me to express these things in English, but to me, the difference between both this is SO obvious it's almost tangible.
    Awesome analysis. You give voice to what I feel and cannot express myself about why I prefer V&M.

  2. #382
    Rooting for the Underdogs
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Politicking for P&B and V&M
    Posts
    1,630
    vCash
    887
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post
    Which was exactly my point. D/W's second set does not travel as far because they don't have the extra push into it. There is no set-up time either which makes it more difficult to synchronize and maintain speed. Meryl & Charlie are able to keep up synchronization and speed wonderfully, IMO.

    Once again, I don't think anyone is picking on V/M's twizzles, but they really aren't directly comparable to D/W's or P/B's because the pattern is so different. All three of Marina's teams have fabulous twizzles, and I like that each team takes a different approach to that element.
    And D/W's first set is aided by their hop.

    P/B and D/W have similar set-ups with two sets. P/B's second set travels further than D/W's. years.

  3. #383

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Minnesota
    Age
    26
    Posts
    9,001
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1017
    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    And D/W's first set is aided by their hop.

    P/B and D/W have similar set-ups with two sets. P/B's second set travels further than D/W's. years.
    The hop does not aid Meryl & Charlie in attaining speed, flow or distance -- that's what makes their twizzles all the more impressive. There's a world of difference between pushing into a twizzle and hopping from backward to forward into a twizzle. Meryl & Charlie's twizzles are arguably the best in the world, and their scores reflect that. There are other things that Tessa & Scott are the best at, such as their edge quality.

    As a fan of both teams, I'm able to realize that they each have strengths and weaknesses. Obviously Tessa & Scott's twizzles aren't "weak" by any stretch of the imagination, but they do tend to score lower than Meryl & Charlie's.
    Last edited by chipso1; 03-22-2013 at 04:27 AM.

  4. #384
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    forever wishing i had access to the crack TAT smoked when she said D/W should've won 2012 worlds ;)
    Posts
    420
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post
    . Obviously Tessa & Scott's twizzles aren't "weak" by any stretch of the imagination, but they do tend to score lower than Meryl & Charlie's.
    which imo don't get. v/m should be getting more points for their twizzles for being more original and having twizzles that capture the character of the dance.

    because there is no way that the same twizzles D/W have been doing for the past 3 years can capture the character of the tango, waltz, polka/ballet etc.

  5. #385
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    6,301
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I prefer V&M, but I have admit it's amusing to see people finally noticing the things that many of us have been complaining about D&W *AND* B&A's skating for years only now that it's negatively affecting V&M.

  6. #386
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    135
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Golightly View Post
    As he says, she tries a bit too hard and she tends to oversell it, so it doesn't look natural. The lady is the face of the team, she is the reference. Always. In both pairs and dance. In any performance, they viewer will always look at the lady first, she is in charge of finishing each movement, of making a statement because, usually, the dance is told from the lady's POV. This doesn't mean that the man is just there. A skilled partner will always be a great presenter, because his skills are consistent with those of the lady. He also has to lead and lead well. Charlie doesn't lead Meryl and he certainly doesn't present her well as a male dancer would.

    With them, it's not so much about accents and pauses. They do not make statements with their movements; their limbs do not tell a story, so the movements are sometimes aimless: she reaches out to touch his chest, but it is over before it even begins. He lifts her, but her legs and arms simply move, but her fingers and her feet don't work harmoniously. During the step sequences, her hand on his shoulder is there to grab him and complete a step. He is faster, so she needs to take more strokes to compensate, but even then, you see they are just compensating steps, not a dancing step. They are straight-forward: they do A to accomplish B to then reach C.

    With V-M, each tiny little detail has a purpose. Look at the way she simply puts her arm on his shoulder, but see how she... I don't know how to say it in English, she just has a way of setting her shoulders and arms that bring such fluidity to her hands, so they are like a feather on his shoulder. That's a tiny detail that you would think matters very little, but when you see them move, that's what makes the dance so graceful from the waist up. That posture is NOT easy and hold it for 4 minutes, on skates, that's VERY tough. But she can and she does. And this is just an example. We could talk hours about the many details and nuances each V-M dance has. They don't skate from A to be to C. A must mean something and they deconstruct that meaning and tell you, "and this is why B happens", see the difference? Again, I am not sure I am explaining myself too well. It's hard for me to express these things in English, but to me, the difference between both this is SO obvious it's almost tangible.
    Great post! I do like how Tessa doesn't grab Scott's shoulder, but softly lays it there. Regarding how V/M & D/W present themselves, AJ also had a post explaining why Tessa is the flower and Scott is the stem of the team. He pointed out how the opposite is true for D/W, that people's eyes go to Charlie. I can't find it anymore though.

  7. #387
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    forever wishing i had access to the crack TAT smoked when she said D/W should've won 2012 worlds ;)
    Posts
    420
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by casken View Post
    I prefer V&M, but I have admit it's amusing to see people finally noticing the things that many of us have been complaining about D&W *AND* B&A's skating for years only now that it's negatively affecting V&M.
    wat

    whatis that suppose to mean? pls specify

  8. #388

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,901
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Um sorry OT but Tessa was at WMC Fashion Week: http://instagram.com/p/XJAXcPA8hN/. Love love her outfit…talk about stylish!

  9. #389
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Age
    31
    Posts
    1,636
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    And D/W's first set is aided by their hop.
    I don't want to argue either teams twizzles here, but no matter if I agree or not, simple physics is actually saying that you're wrong. Not only does a hop create an extra force thus can throw you easier off-balance (think car in a turn; the faster the more likely it is to get carried out of the turn), it also creates a condratictory force to a turn in many ways. If you hop, you have to land which is actually a break in the movement; your knee needs to bend and then to push up again so you can turn and travel. And the body direction of the hop and the turn are two different ones as well - the hop goes straight, the turn, obviously, rotates. There are a lot of counter-forces at work with the hop.
    Having said that, I'm not saying D/Ws twizzles are more difficult, all I'm saying is that the hop certainly isn't aiding anything other than maybe the Level they get for the twizzles.

  10. #390

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    8,731
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1795
    Quote Originally Posted by ddtpdx View Post
    Not sure whether FD from Br ESP has been posted yet, but here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p42d...Cse1Gg&index=6
    Could you, guys, tell me, what did they think about Carmen and about overall results?
    I heard they think Scott was too cold

  11. #391

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    8,731
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1795
    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    Um sorry OT but Tessa was at WMC Fashion Week: http://instagram.com/p/XJAXcPA8hN/. Love love her outfit…talk about stylish!
    Or, thank you! OMG, she is perfect. When this photo was made?

  12. #392

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    8,731
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1795
    BTW, i noticed Tessa n=mistake on twizzles Just wonder, why when D-W fans all the season talking about D-W must had gold in Nice, about Tessa weight, Scott piss-off, porno FD was OK and not to see mistakes from D-W in SD at 4CC too? And they posted all this on FB, twitter, trumble and all forums and this was OK.
    And V-M ubers talking about they wish innovated choreo and lines get more respect from judges only in this thread/
    So why D-W ubers need to put this ecerywhere and couldnt just be happy with there idols gold?

    Lokk at British Eurosport commentators. They are really respect both teams, but did D-W ubers do? V-M one big mistake compare to perfection
    Last edited by pani; 03-22-2013 at 12:32 PM.

  13. #393
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    103
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by chipso1 View Post
    Meryl & Charlie's twizzles are arguably the best in the world, and their scores reflect that.

    Obviously Tessa & Scott's twizzles aren't "weak" by any stretch of the imagination, but they do tend to score lower than Meryl & Charlie's.
    Not true. VM score higher on twizzles than DW (that is when both teams don't mess them up): Either that or at least the same

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._FD_Scores.pdf
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc..._FD_Scores.pdf (maximum score +3 across the board )
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._SD_Scores.pdf
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FD_Scores.pdf
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._OD_Scores.pdf
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/ow..._OD_Scores.pdf
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc..._SD_Scores.pdf (higher GOEs)
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._OD_Scores.pdf (higher GOEs)
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FD_Scores.pdf
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/fc..._FD_scores.pdf
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc..._SD_Scores.pdf

    And of course, http://www.isuresults.com/results/ow..._FD_Scores.pdf (maximum score for twizzles +3 GOEs across the board )

    by the way hello all VM fans I enjoy reading this interesting and educational dicussion on this thread. Especially everyones thoughts and comparisons of the two teams. Keep up the debates and analysis
    Last edited by Tweak; 03-22-2013 at 06:37 PM.

  14. #394
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,571
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Welcome Tweak.
    As you can see this is a very thread of ardent fans.
    Also we ladies like to talk and talk and talk so we run through threads very often.

  15. #395

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    In Canuck Land, hey!
    Age
    56
    Posts
    3,820
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    2416
    chipso -- of course it SEEMS that D/W cover more ice and that their twizzles are done better. Why wouldn't they be good? They've been doing the exact SAME twizzles for the past five fricken years, unlike many other teams who actually change up their twizzles to fit the music and the choreography. And just because they do them in a blaze of speed, doesn't mean there aren't mistakes. D/W make mistakes on their twizzles but unless you watch their entire twizzle section without blinking, it's quite possible to miss the mistake.

    I would like to make a suggestion, Please take a look at some video on the twizzles performed by these two teams. Here's a link to a site that has some "naughty" language in it but also includes video. If you scroll down to the title of MONDAY, MARCH 18, 2013 you'll see the clips of twizzles for the two teams starting in 2009-10 season to this season. You might find it interesting.
    Crazy about sports!

  16. #396
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    11,026
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Charlie used to have a bad habit of falling on twizzles, didn't he? I remember I used to always get very nervous for them on their twizzle sections. They've learned to control their speed a bit more.

  17. #397
    Rooting for the Underdogs
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Politicking for P&B and V&M
    Posts
    1,630
    vCash
    887
    Rep Power
    0
    The hop into D/W's twizzles aids in the rotational speed, which is a GOE consideration, of their first set of twizzles.

    Twizzles are essentially traveling upright spins. The speed of rotation of a spin (or twizzle) is dependent in part upon the initial angular momentum (or turning motion) into the spin. The greater the angular momentum is, the faster the rotation is going to be. Applying torque (rotational force) to an object is going to increase it's angular momentum, and thus the rotation is going to speed up. When D/W do that hop, they're generating torque force with their bodies. That torque force helps with the rotational speed of their twizzles. That torque isn't creating a contradictory force.

    I'm not saying the hop isn't difficult. It's just that while a partiuclar move may be difficult, it doesn't negate the fact that it can aid in other aspects of the execution of the element. D/W's hop is difficult, but at the same time, when they're doing that hop, they're generating torque which aids in their rotational speed--it's certainly not a counter force or some sort of frictional force working against them.
    Last edited by aka_gerbil; 03-22-2013 at 06:44 PM.

  18. #398

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    8,731
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1795
    The hop into D/W's twizzles aids in the rotational speed, which is a GOE consideration, of their first set of twizzles.
    Hop into the twizzles give them level 4. Thats why V-M nee to do 3 twizzles, when D-W- two.

  19. #399
    Rooting for the Underdogs
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Politicking for P&B and V&M
    Posts
    1,630
    vCash
    887
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Tweak View Post
    Not true. VM score higher on twizzles than DW (that is when both teams don't mess them up): Either that or at least the same

    ....

    by the way hello all VM fans I enjoy reading this interesting and educational dicussion on this thread. Especially everyones thoughts and comparisons of the two teams. Keep up the debates and analysis
    Welcome Tweak! Also, thank you for pulling up those protocols from over the years. It's easy to see their in black and white print that when both teams are clean, V/M are scores the same or higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by professordeb View Post
    chipso -- of course it SEEMS that D/W cover more ice and that their twizzles are done better. Why wouldn't they be good? They've been doing the exact SAME twizzles for the past five fricken years, unlike many other teams who actually change up their twizzles to fit the music and the choreography. And just because they do them in a blaze of speed, doesn't mean there aren't mistakes. D/W make mistakes on their twizzles but unless you watch their entire twizzle section without blinking, it's quite possible to miss the mistake.
    ITA, professordeb. Doing something fast doesn't mean that there aren't errors there. It just makes it harder to catch. I'm certainly not going to sit here and pretend that my team is always perfectly perfect on the twizzles, but when you freeze frame on D/W's, you can easier catch the mistakes--not quite in unison, etc.

    And, yes, why wouldn't D/W's twizzles be good at this point when they've been doing the same set for both OD/SD and FD for the past 5 seasons.

  20. #400
    Rooting for the Underdogs
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Politicking for P&B and V&M
    Posts
    1,630
    vCash
    887
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Hop into the twizzles give them level 4. Thats why V-M nee to do 3 twizzles, when D-W- two.
    That too. D/W do the hop as a feature to get level 4, V/M get three sets, but the hop in D/W's also generates torque which helps with rotational speed, which is a GOE consideration rather than a levels consideration.
    Last edited by aka_gerbil; 03-22-2013 at 03:40 PM.

Page 20 of 51 FirstFirst ... 10181920212230 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •