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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/brady...r-20---7am.mp3

    Scott radio interview. He said they will not made WTT. They take with week off and then will start early preparartion for the next season before SCOI.
    They made D-W promrtion (like alwayse) and Cahn promotion (who care about Scott?). And i cant understand. I understand like Scott will faster then Patrick in hockey staes but will not have chance in figure skates?
    And isnt this stupid to ask ice dancer who will be faster? This show all we now have in ice dance. And they all time takin D-W and Chan. And they like team competitions- amazing.
    i love how the radio hosts poke fun at the american media by calling the americans cocky

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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    And, of couse. see difference between Scott and Charlie body moves (i am not talking about Tessa).
    Somebody else and I are having a discussion on another forum and they said this:
    Next time you have the chance to see them skate in person, just watch Scott move across the rink in warm-ups. Watch how he strokes and pay particular attention to the way he gets his edges deep into the ice, the power of his blade drives, and the way he carries himself. He is smooth, smooth, smooth. His skating is exquisite.

  3. #283
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    tessa also moves differently and better than meryl.
    for one, tessa has better posture, frame and lines.
    2. meryl is so stiff compared to tessa. just watch how tessa uses her upper and lower body and is contracting her abdominals to control her movement compared to meryl who only uses her lower body and her movement doesn't look that controlled compared to tessa's. instead it looks contrived and she looks stiff
    3. tessa is more graceful that probably has to do with her lines

  4. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    D&W are ice skaters, V&M are ice dancers.

    I guess the ISU needs to clarify what this discipline is supposed to be. At the moment it seems to favour ice skaters.


    perhaps d/w would be better off as pairs skaters

  5. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I'm a little uncomfortable with the way the issues are being framed here, even by the V&M fans, to be honest: sport vs. art, athlete vs. artist, fast vs. slow, and skaters vs. dancers.

    It is not one vs the other. It's on a continuum. D&W are not unartistic or completely unable to dance, nor are V&M unathletic or slow. It's a matter of who has what, to what degree, and how it plays into the scoring.

    This is playing into the old Susie Wynne saying "It's just so close that now it all depends on what the judges like!"

    I certainly don't see any better skaters than V&M in the ice dance competition.

    Yes, I prefer V&M artistically. That's why I like them. But it isn't why I think they deserve to win (certainly the FD at Worlds, and by enough to win overall). IMO they deserve to win based on the skating criteria found in the components marks.

    I don't have time to watch and analyze right now, but for skating skills I would look at things like the multi-directional skating in V&M's programs; their ability to stop on a dime, then build up effortless speed; the flow and speed through their YP pattern (easiest way to compare speed between couples); their ability to hold a position or an edge, etc. Those things aren't all that subjective.

    In terms of "danceability" I would look at things like things like carriage both in and out of the step sequences; holding the core during, before, and after a lift (not just jockeying into position); spatial awareness and the ability to move in sync; the timing of elements and changes of position within an element to the music, etc.

    And IMO V&M are the best at these, by some way.
    Thank you! Like I said earlier, V&M's technical proficiency is the foundation for their artistic brilliance. How they use their bodies to express the music (all the variations in position, changes in edge, changes in direction) require an incredible amount of strength, balance, and stamina.

  6. #286

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    Somebody else and I are having a discussion on another forum and they said this:
    Next time you have the chance to see them skate in person, just watch Scott move across the rink in warm-ups. Watch how he strokes and pay particular attention to the way he gets his edges deep into the ice, the power of his blade drives, and the way he carries himself. He is smooth, smooth, smooth. His skating is exquisite.
    Oh, I so agree with this. I was absolutely mesmerized in London. You couldn't keep your eyes off him.

  7. #287

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    Quote Originally Posted by IoanaC View Post
    Oh, I so agree with this. I was absolutely mesmerized in London. You couldn't keep your eyes off him.

    And TAT said at CoR - Tessa is best technically female skater
    tessa also moves differently and better than meryl.
    Without qustions. Thats why i evevn didnt compare them

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by IoanaC View Post
    Oh, I so agree with this. I was absolutely mesmerized in London. You couldn't keep your eyes off him.
    Agreed. And how he gets to full speed in 2-3 strokes. But when I'm watching V&M perform, my eyes go between both, but when I watch D&W my focus is on Charlie. And it's not because he's cute!

  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post

    And TAT said at CoR - Tessa is best technically female skater

    Without qustions. Thats why i evevn didnt compare them
    i forgot to mention that tessa's facial expressions aren't over the top compared to meryl

    also i was backreading aunt joyce formspring awhile ago and someone told AJ that tessa's edges aren't that great and he replied that tessa is the greatest technical female skater in ice dance or something like that
    and i was like WOW AJ finally said something nice about tessa instead of body shaming her like he usually does.

  10. #290
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    I'm a little uncomfortable with the way the issues are being framed here, even by the V&M fans, to be honest: sport vs. art, athlete vs. artist, fast vs. slow, and skaters vs. dancers.

    It is not one vs the other. It's on a continuum. D&W are not unartistic or completely unable to dance, nor are V&M unathletic or slow. It's a matter of who has what, to what degree, and how it plays into the scoring.
    Cherub and BK Fan.
    Just to clarify there is no question that both teams are athletic but if you had to watch both their dances without any knowledge and use one word I would describe them in the way I did - Athletic/artistic.
    We know that the athleticism in V&M fuels and backs up the artistry. I find in D&W there is just a slavish portrayal of elements. Less and less are my senses engaged in watching them and it seems to me an endless rotation and repetition of movements sometimes with no crescendo.
    In the case of T&S their whole bodies are in tune with the dance. Their moves and lifts are athletic but done with such delicacy of movement, control and flow that you get immersed in the program. I always feel as though I am an invitee into their bubble and not left on the outside.

    This is what drew me to them when they first skated seniors and has held me there over the years

  11. #291
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    Emdee, I agree with everything you said. I just think we need to be cognizant not to allow the conversation to be framed that way, and I am glad I said that, because it lead to a thoughtful post like yours.

    Basically I don't think we should take V&M's athleticism for granted is all.

    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post

    And TAT said at CoR - Tessa is best technically female skater
    Was that in an article or commentary? Would you mind posting her comments in full with link/youtube? I'm still working on collecting quotes about them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowkisses View Post
    also i was backreading aunt joyce formspring awhile ago and someone told AJ that tessa's edges aren't that great and he replied that tessa is the greatest technical female skater in ice dance or something like that
    and i was like WOW AJ finally said something nice about tessa instead of body shaming her like he usually does.
    He also said she has the best posture and lines since Maia Usova (who is the pinnacle for him, and for many others).

  13. #293

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Was that in an article or commentary? Would you mind posting her comments in full with link/youtube? I'm still working on collecting quotes about them.
    It was n russian journal Figure Skating. So no link. Only if i will try to finbd digital version.
    As for athleticism. Yes, nt athletic Tessa coulds made backflipon Scott neck and change her position during rotation Honestly i didnt saw this from Meryl yet.

  14. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subway View Post
    Notre Dame is a re-tread, the elements are retreads. There's nothing wrong with that if all elements and components are legitimately the best, or "equal", when done well, to what is being put on the ice by their main competition. Ice dance isn't like some sports where the best are handicapped to level the playing field. If a difficult move comes easily to someone, that doesn't make it less difficult. It means the athlete is talented and fortunate. That shouldn't get some downgrade or handicap to level the playing field.

    But are the elements DW do in Notre Dame, and all the programs that preceded Notre Dame, and is their execution of these elements legitimately the best or at least equal to their main competition, which is Virtue Moir?

    I think they're not even close. The actual skating linking the elements isn't close. It's this that is crazy and unfair. The competition is artifical. DW are getting the highest scores for simpler everything - objectively simpler, not just easy for them - and lesser quality of basic skating. Worse, their signature elements such as the twizzles have so many flaws compared to Virtue Moir that "old" twizzles are the least of it.

    The attributes Davis White are supposed to possess - let's start with speed - do they really possess them compared to Virtue Moir. When we're told Davis White are fast, the implication is "fast-ER" isn't it. Otherwise, why would it be such a point in their win column? I don't believe I've heard a commentator say they're faster than Virtue Moir. I just hear they're fast. How come the commentator doesn't say faster?

    It's all a lot of word play and spin.


    Yuna Kim is perfectly right to do her luz flip combo the same as she did in 2010. It is the gold medal standard jump combination. The tech of it plus how she does it. It wouldn't be fair to make her do a three loop/three loop - she doesn't do the loop at all - to make it more fair. The unfairness happened when she was born with a body made for figure skating and the ability to do a gigantic lutz combination.

    It would be unfair if she did a 3 toe 3 toe and just a good one, not even a great one, and received the same level and points as a more difficult combination or someone's triple axel, done superbly. That's the better comparison to the situation Virtue and Moir are with Davis White. It's the saying of having to be twice as good just to be considered level. That's Virtue Moir.

    Over and over fans and media claim DW have the best twizzles. Do they have the best twizzles? Are they the fastest team? Is the ISU assigning levels appropriately? Is it truly harder to enter twizzles the way DW enter them? The physics of it. It doesn't matter if it's easy for DW. It matters if the physics of it challenges the skaters to the degree of Level 4; not if DW can easily master those physics. I consider the physics of it and think hmmm.

    There's so much to challenge in DW's twizzles besides the level the twizzles are assigned. It doesn't matter that they do the same ones over and over. What does is pretending these twizzles are as good as Virtue Moir's twizzles. Scott and Tessa's aren't better because they're new twizzles but because they're better quality. Quality is defined differently for DW than for Virtue Moir and that's the scandal.

    Yes. The press in the lead up to this Worlds was clubbing us over the head with agenda. It wasn't ever insinuated that Patrick winning worlds would be wrong because he was third at the Grand Prix Final. Virtue and Moir were being insulted via insinuation prior to worlds.

    There are standards applied in the media that they use only on Virtue Moir. Virtue Moir are the skaters some people want to handicap ahead of the game.

    You can't win - you lost last time. She had a cramp - let's revisit the rule that's been in place years and years and we never minded it before. VM used it so it must be shady.

    What else can we do to rip the skates out from under them? How about they faked the cramp because they were afraid to lose to Davis White? Yes, after winning the short dance no doubt Virtue Moir were up all night shaking in their skate boots over their inability to compete with Notre Dame.

    Finally, again from a media and public relations standpoint, old tactics are in play here. Turn it around so the people who are victims are made to look like the bully - and the bullies play victim.

    The media sort of frames it that DW are better, but, boo hiss, VM are some type of Canadian Fed steamroller set to deprive DW of what they deserve. Meantime, it is VM who get pieces of flesh stripped off them time and again. This latest spin on twitter and other places about the injury time out is just the latest instance. Other skaters who stopped and resumed after an injury on ice are courageous. And this rule has been in effect for years. Skaters have medaled under this rule. But now, it benefits VM somehow. Don't ask me how it benefited them because they lost the free dance after winning the short and ended up in second place after winning the event last year. The spin, though, is VM knew they couldn't compete with Notre Dame, so they faked a cramp as to have an excuse for the loss that was coming anyway. Yes, that Notre Dame program was killer.

    ETA: I'm trying to approach this from the same perspective as Cherub, but saying it differently. We must have posted at the same time.
    Bringing this one back to the new page because HERE IT IS. This is what's wrong about the state of ice dance right now. If could rep you, Subway, I would. This is the best post I have read on this forum. I am not exaggerating. And I would encourage everyone to reread it because this is exactly what's going on right now.

  15. #295

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    I felt bad for Scott when that interviewer kept bringing up Patrick Chan. Like hello, you're supposed to be talking about Tessa and Scott lol.

    Agree about the post Golightly (and that's saying a lot since Subway and I haven't always seen eye to eye.

  16. #296

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    I felt bad for Scott when that interviewer kept bringing up Patrick Chan. Like hello, you're supposed to be talking about Tessa and Scott lol..
    And Scott tried to take third gold at WCh too. And this questions about " such a talented americans". From this intervew look like V-M Canada need only for Team competitions.

  17. #297

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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    And Scott tried to take third gold at WCh too. And this questions about " such a talented americans". From this intervew look like V-M Canada need only for Team competitions.
    At first I was irritated about the no Canadian athlete had won three World Championships, but then I realized he said back-to-back and V/M wouldn't have had that anyways since they didn't win in 2011.

  18. #298

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shayii View Post
    At first I was irritated about the no Canadian athlete had won three World Championships, but then I realized he said back-to-back and V/M wouldn't have had that anyways since they didn't win in 2011.
    And they forget about Kurt
    I men it was lik they were talking with Scott aboutother stars - D-W and Chan and about Team Competitions at OG.
    Shayii, did Scott said they will skate FD at team competitions?
    And so he is slower, then Patrick?

  19. #299

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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    And they forget about Kurt
    I men it was lik they were talking with Scott aboutother stars - D-W and Chan and about Team Competitions at OG.
    Shayii, did Scott said they will skate FD at team competitions?
    And so he is slower, then Patrick?
    Yes they will skate in the team event in Russia and he feels they have a chance winning that event because they have Chan, D/R, and them. Also Kaetlyn is developing nicely. In hockey skates he feels he could destroy Patrick in speed, when doing crossovers (I think it was crossovers). But in figure skates, not so much.

  20. #300
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    I'd love to see a footwork contest between Patrick and Scott, speed among other thing being something judged...

    That would be some great skating.

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