I also want to say how much I love the comments being made here. to everyone.
If the judges don't have a change of heart then it would be another season just like this one only this time a second Olympic gold is on the line.
I do think V&M will still come up with new elements and ideas for their Olympic FD but I agree they need to dial it back a tad with the degree of difficulty. They bent over backwards and killed themselves to introduce news ideas and movement to the sport but all it seemed to get them was criticism and accusations that they are falling further behind the supposedly superior D&W.
Tessa and Scott do often take the entire season to build their programs but they can't afford to do that again. Don't get me wrong, I don't see V&M completely taking the easy way out and doing a more empty program. I also think them building to a peak by the end of the season events will change but I think they could/should find some sort of middle ground. Something in between Mahler and Carmen both in technical content and artistry. Or maybe between Funny Face and Carmen.
Not to mention, while D&W are an excellent technical team and are fast (but I disagree as well they are faster than V&M) I do think they are one of those teams who have reached top end of what they are capable of. I just can't see them attempting a program with the wall to wall content of Carmen and being able to pull it off. ITA again that almost all of D&W's FD's since POTO look the same but they are doing what works for them and so far they have been given no reason to change.
Don't get me wrong walei, I agree with everything you say but unfortunately we have to factor in whatever the judges are thinking and hoping that they have a change of heart. That is a big question mark and risk.
At this point, V&M seem damned if they do, damned if they don't. They get a boatload of criticism no matter what. Even a program like Carmen didn't seem to stop that; to change peoples low opinion of them.
As I said above, I think V&M can dial back some of the extreme difficulty of what the do while still presenting a program that still stands out artistically and have the neccesary difficulty.
With Tessa and Scott it's not just that the risk and level of content of the Carmen FD wasn't appreciated, it's also that they overtrained and put more strain on themselves both physically and emotionally. And for what? They still ended up coming off to many as if they were faltering and are falling behind D&W.
I agree with you about V&M choosing to do a ballet for next season. It could have the feel of Mahler but still have creative elements within it.
It's those who clearly hate V&M and come here just to be snide and take cheap shots; make personal attacks on V&M and some of the posters here that is the problem.
Cachoo and kitty, both of you made great posts and presented yourselves in a respectful manner. Even if I don't end up agreeing with all of what you say, I respect that you came here to have a civil discussion. I think it's to be expected that everyone is not going to agree but it's all in how a person presents themselves.
I hope neither of you feel as if you can't come here and join in the debate. I don't think that is what anyone wants.
Cachoo, I think it was necessary for V&M to do a program like Carmen. It goes back to what I said before about Tessa and Scott being damned if they do and damned if they don't. We all know how good they are and how capable they are of moving an audience and using their incredible connection to sell their programs. However, they have been criticized in the past for their romantic themed programs; accused of always being too "lovey dovey" all the time.
I do think if V&M do a ballet FD next year they can capitalize on their romantic connection while still bringing something new to the table. Especially with Jennifer Swan still on board.
Of course at the end of the day it's the judges' opinion that matter most because they are still first and foremost athletes competing in a sport. In that sense I agree with you that V/M are in a damn if they do damn if they don't situation.
And i hope T-S will go to vacations now and have good rest. And maybe after that they will change there minds about coaching situation ))))))))
I hope Tessa will recover... At least she will feel, like she was in Nice.
Not me; I wanted them to win.
But it happened, so hopefully people actually were able to appreciate it and win some new fans.
To be honest, I wonder if a lot of fans of that dramatic style of ice dancing with beautiful lines and deep edges have just given up on ice dancing in general, and that's maybe why V&M aren't getting the support. I was talking to a friend who used to be a huge fan of ice dancing and they said they could not bear to watch anymore as CoP has sucked out a lot of interesting details and with the elimination of the CD and destroying the OD. I notice a lot of the FSU posters that used to be really into ice dance barely commented on Worlds. FSU used to have some great discussions analyzing all the dances, the politiks, the technik of all top couples... and now that seems to be left to the uber threads.
Abd yes, i was one of fans, who wished to see something creative more then gold And they did this. I even asked them to use unusuall choreo on overused music
But who could imaging new ice dance fans and old judges isnt ready to see nothing new and hot?
I think this happens because especially as time goes by with CoP ice dancing is turning into a more political event than it ever was. Everything that was good about the sport is getting destroyed little by little. There was no way for people to get on the podium under 6.0 if they had bad posture,serious technical problems,edge problems, etc.Yes, there were different ways to cheat but what about the TES? The way it's been this season is just strange. You either know what level something is or not, you either understand the technical difficulty or not.
If a program is judged difficulty wise using just 8 elements then it's not fair to all these skaters that want to add. And yes, one can argue that it's all about the PCS then,but how is this really used? How are transitions used and why do they actually try to make ice dancing into a " stay on your two feet ,do nothing and get the marks" kind of sport.
V/M risked,which means that if you risk you should get more credit even in case you're not perfectly crisp and crystal clear.Because you risk,and this is what sport is supposed to be.
I am always intrigued by the twizzles of the top couples. There are levels being given,rules on how to give them, and yet it always strikes me that people who don't do a catch foot position, have the obligatory little jump,but are painfully slow shouldn't be given level 4. Yet, almost all of the couples are being given a level 4. So maybe one should take the technical panel and make them do the actual twizzles themselves.
Same applies for the spins, and don't get me started on the step sequences.The discipline needs a serious check up,not to say open heart surgery right now.
D&W are ice skaters, V&M are ice dancers.
I guess the ISU needs to clarify what this discipline is supposed to be. At the moment it seems to favour ice skaters.
I think they want to get out ice dance from OG. Thats why they made this SD, give teams 10th in PCS - all for people start hating ice dance
I want to ask people from D-W thread - what must we talking about to make you happy, guys?
Yes, this. The SD/OD has became more like a singles short program. Do your elements and don't make any mistakes. It doesn't matter if you have the feel of the dance or not. There is barely even time to dance.How are transitions used and why do they actually try to make ice dancing into a " stay on your two feet ,do nothing and get the marks" kind of sport.
ITA, but I will add I don't see anywhere V&M were not crisp and crystal clear in their FD. It was excellent.V/M risked,which means that if you risk you should get more credit even in case you're not perfectly crisp and crystal clear.Because you risk,and this is what sport is supposed to be.
That has always annoyed me about CoP. You find something that's level 4 that's easy for you and just repeat it all the time. No credit is given for added difficulty once you're at level 4, and no credit is given in PCS for the originality of the positions or how well they fit the program. I mean I&K usually get level 4 lifts and great PCS and they have terrible lifts.