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  1. #161

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    Can someone [maybe from the Russian boards] confirm or deny this?

    I just got done watching the ice dancing on J-Sports 4 over the weekend. They included interviews as well as the skating.

    When R/T finished their FD the commentator said that next year they'd go to Sphilband [literally that Sphlband would be their main coach]. And they said in their interview that when they leave here [London] they were going to Detroit to work on their programs for next year [which isnt necessarily the same thing although they only showed clips of the interview, not the whole thing].

    Has anyone else heard anything like this? I havent seen any news about it here, but maybe I missed it.

    Im holding my breath that this is true because Igor is just what they need - he would do wonders with them - they have a lot of potential, but they are going nowhere with Gorshkov. I would love to see them with Igor.

  2. #162

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    Katarzyna, my conversation with you ended 2 pages ago. Go on beating the dead horse knowing as much about israeli figure skating as Bychenko and Shelepen. Enjoy your monologue.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    Katarzyna, my conversation with you ended 2 pages ago. Go on beating the dead horse knowing as much about israeli figure skating as Bychenko and Shelepen. Enjoy your monologue.
    Well, TAHbKA, I swear I had strong wilful intention to stop our conversation as well. But with the ongoing bashing of skaters - as clueless as I am - I simply couldn’t resist to post a reply.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    When R/T finished their FD the commentator said that next year they'd go to Sphilband [literally that Sphlband would be their main coach]. And they said in their interview that when they leave here [London] they were going to Detroit to work on their programs for next year [which isnt necessarily the same thing although they only showed clips of the interview, not the whole thing].
    I’d too be interested to have this confirmed. It would be great news. However, I thought Russian Fed wants skaters striving for Sochi to train with Russian coaches located in Russia? So if it’s not only choreographing their programmes with Shpilband, but switching coaches, I wonder how this might work out?

  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLIVER View Post
    So agree, this rule is ludicrous and all to supposedly 'help the developping countries'. Its' just not the best of the best when Kozuka, Oda and many others are not at worlds but skaters with 10% of their ability are.
    at the limited number of spots rule being there to help "developing countries". Let me know when that kicks in.

    I've said it before, but like so much else in this sport the 3 spots per country rule actually helps the stronger skating nations because the skaters have to fight so much harder to get one of those spots. And if you did away with the limits, U.S. and Japanese nationals would become irrelevant competitions.

    Quote Originally Posted by kosjenka View Post
    Four words.

    Amy Ireland representing Croatia.

    I rest my case.
    This year was the first time since 2007 that Ireland wasn't at Euros.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post

    I know a number of people who now hold Irish passports because of ancestry. One applied and got his Irish passport in the mail a year later. Have any Americans/Canadians/[Anywhere else in the world] obtained Irish citizenship to skate for Ireland? If so, have they been refused by the Irish federation, because they weren't natural-born Irish citizens who were trained in Ireland?
    Criteria for membership of the Ice Skating Association of Ireland:

    - Have been born in Ireland or being a natural or adopted child of parents who themselves were born in Ireland
    - Or be and have been ordinarily resident in Ireland for a minimum of one year
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    I've said it before, but like so much else in this sport the 3 spots per country rule actually helps the stronger skating nations because the skaters have to fight so much harder to get one of those spots. And if you did away with the limits, U.S. and Japanese nationals would become irrelevant competitions.
    Why? People compete at some Nationals even though they are assured a spot or know that they won't get one by being national champion.

    I don't see how there would be any less incentive to excel if more spots were open. I'd think there would be more incentive to stay (or in the case of pairs or teams) to stay together and bear the expenses of training if they realized they had a chance for a spot.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  6. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    :When R/T finished their FD the commentator said that next year they'd go to Sphilband [literally that Sphlband would be their main coach]. ].


    Im holding my breath that this is true because Igor is just what they need - he would do wonders with them - they have a lot of potential, but they are going nowhere with Gorshkov. I would love to see them with Igor.
    I don't know about this but they are going to have a hard time .With S/Z and S/B if they turn senior on their heels it's going to be tough for that third spot.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Why? People compete at some Nationals even though they are assured a spot or know that they won't get one by being national champion.
    And sometimes they don't. Besides the fact, I was specifically referring to US and Japanese nationals where the results have a direct bearing on who is selected to represent those countries at the World Championships. Do you think that removing a large part of what is at stake make these events more or less exciting for the TV stations, sponsors and viewers?

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I don't see how there would be any less incentive to excel if more spots were open. I'd think there would be more incentive to stay (or in the case of pairs or teams) to stay together and bear the expenses of training if they realized they had a chance for a spot.
    Worlds for everybody then, so the ISU will raise the minimum TES even further and we end up having 5 or 6 dance teams from the US and Russia each, 4 from Canada and then maybe one or two more from the likes of France and Italy. I'm sure you and others would be delighted with that despite the damage it will do to the skating programmes of most of the membership of the ISU as the sport is clearly only here to serve your agenda.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  8. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Worlds for everybody then, so the ISU will raise the minimum TES even further and we end up having 5 or 6 dance teams from the US and Russia each, 4 from Canada and then maybe one or two more from the likes of France and Italy. I'm sure you and others would be delighted with that despite the damage it will do to the skating programmes of most of the membership of the ISU as the sport is clearly only here to serve your agenda.
    But the level of skating would be so much higher. For the audience it mean watching higher level of skating. For the skaters it would mean that when you are tenth at worlds, it means that you are really tenth from the whole word. Not that you may be somewhere between 20-25 because there may be some 5 other Japanese, 5 US and 5 Russians who are so much better than you but couldn't compete at worlds because they were number 4-8 in their own country.

  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    Can someone [maybe from the Russian boards] confirm or deny this?

    I just got done watching the ice dancing on J-Sports 4 over the weekend. They included interviews as well as the skating.

    When R/T finished their FD the commentator said that next year they'd go to Sphilband [literally that Sphlband would be their main coach]. And they said in their interview that when they leave here [London] they were going to Detroit to work on their programs for next year [which isnt necessarily the same thing although they only showed clips of the interview, not the whole thing].

    Has anyone else heard anything like this? I havent seen any news about it here, but maybe I missed it.

    Im holding my breath that this is true because Igor is just what they need - he would do wonders with them - they have a lot of potential, but they are going nowhere with Gorshkov. I would love to see them with Igor.
    At Worlds in the flash quote interviews, Ilia Tkachenko said that they are going to Detroit now for a prolonged time. Actually, Alexei Gorshkov has been collaborating with Igor Shpilband already for some time and more so since the start of last season. He spent some months with Riazanova/Tkachenko and I think also with the junior team (Kosygina/Moroshkin) in Detroit with Igor and both Igor and him were coaching Riazonva/Tkachenko at Worlds. So Igor already had some influence on them this season, but it didn't pay off much.
    I really like Riazanova/Tkachenko, but I feel they could be more exciting. Their problem is that they are regarded as "No. 3" Russian team and as others pointed out, they'll have to fight hard even for this spot with the Junior World Champions 2012 and 2013 coming up. Bobrova/Soloviev have made a lot of progress and confirmed their status as Russia's top team this year, while Ilinykh/Katsalapov are struggeling. We'll see what happens with them next season (coaching change?).

  10. #170
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    Shelepen represented Russia in December 2012 at Golden Spin. Could we see here at Euros in 2014? Will Russia release her?

  11. #171

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eislauffan View Post
    I really like Riazanova/Tkachenko, but I feel they could be more exciting. Their problem is that they are regarded as "No. 3" Russian team and as others pointed out, they'll have to fight hard even for this spot with the Junior World Champions 2012 and 2013 coming up. Bobrova/Soloviev have made a lot of progress and confirmed their status as Russia's top team this year, while Ilinykh/Katsalapov are struggeling. We'll see what happens with them next season (coaching change?).
    I don't think that their only problem is that they are Russian number 3 couple. I see their skating as the problem. Last season they seemed to me a bit quicker, sharper... I can't describe it. I am not sure if it is the programs or if they missed training due to something we don't know about (injury or something) but this season their skating looked a bit like a hard job. You expect certain level from Russian ice dancers and this definitely wasn't meeting the expectations. I wouldn't surprised if some other Russian couple caught them up. Besides, you can't even make excuses that they are too young and they will learn. She is 21, he is 26. They are not old, but they are not THAT young. They had plenty of time to develop.

  12. #172

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    Quote Originally Posted by kirkbiggestfan View Post
    Shelepen represented Russia in December 2012 at Golden Spin. Could we see here at Euros in 2014? Will Russia release her?
    Doesn't she have to sit out the whole season 2013-2014?

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I don't think that their only problem is that they are Russian number 3 couple. I see their skating as the problem. Last season they seemed to me a bit quicker, sharper... I can't describe it. I am not sure if it is the programs or if they missed training due to something we don't know about (injury or something) but this season their skating looked a bit like a hard job. You expect certain level from Russian ice dancers and this definitely wasn't meeting the expectations. I wouldn't surprised if some other Russian couple caught them up. Besides, you can't even make excuses that they are too young and they will learn. She is 21, he is 26. They are not old, but they are not THAT young. They had plenty of time to develop.
    R/T didn't made that much progress so I don't see how going full with Igor will work ?

    They will face an uphill battle even to make the Olympics Team
    and besides we already know from the certificate recognition reception after worlds
    the one they will support in Ice Dance for next quad is Stepanova/Bukin ( aka Son of Olympic Champion ) so I won't be surprised if S/B will be given a 2014 Olympic spot for Olympics experience for 2018

  14. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I don't think that their only problem is that they are Russian number 3 couple. I see their skating as the problem. Last season they seemed to me a bit quicker, sharper... I can't describe it. I am not sure if it is the programs or if they missed training due to something we don't know about (injury or something) but this season their skating looked a bit like a hard job. You expect certain level from Russian ice dancers and this definitely wasn't meeting the expectations. I wouldn't surprised if some other Russian couple caught them up. Besides, you can't even make excuses that they are too young and they will learn. She is 21, he is 26. They are not old, but they are not THAT young. They had plenty of time to develop.
    You are right, being No. 3 is not their only problem, but I think it has also a (negative) effect on their skating and their results. I agree that unfortunately they have stagnated this year. Their programs were too similar to previous ones and they had problems to get the appropiate levels. I wish they would come up with something new and fresh and get rid of their problems with levels (this is something you expect Igor Shpilband to fix, but apparently he didn't, at least not yet. OTOH, in the past, Alexei Gorshkov's skaters used to be strong technically, just these past two seasons there seems to be some trouble with levels).

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Doesn't she have to sit out the whole season 2013-2014?
    I thought it was just a year from the date of the last international event; provided that Russia releases her
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  16. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    I thought it was just a year from the date of the last international event; provided that Russia releases her
    I think it may have been changed. But I am not certain about that.

  17. #177

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    [QUOTE=love_skate2011;3884740]R/T didn't made that much progress so I don't see how going full with Igor will work ?

    I know Nicky Slater had a problem watching them.He kept saying they were typically russian style skaters with wafting arm movements and skated too far apart.
    I must say I enjoyed them more last season.

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I thought that Morozov was an exception. The Russian skating Federation needed him and therefore they had to accept that he will be having some international skaters. At the time when the unwritten 'rule' came out that they are not 'allowed' to coach international students, Morozov had a very successful season, Ando was world champion, someone else (maybe Takahashi? Or Voronov?) have done pretty well, so I think the Russian Federation wanted him to take on Leonova and they were not in position to mess up relationship with him. They needed him.
    There are other skaters representing other countries training in Russia at present.

    Agafonova/Ucar, 'Azerbeijani' and the Latvian team train with Zhulin. There's that Kazakh girl as well. And probably many more.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Are you saying that the Israeli Federation actively recruited Shelepen? Are they planning to subsidize her so that she'll have the level of training and services/subsidies she had in Russia? (That will take a lot of shekels.)

    I have little idea how the Israeli Federation works or of the oversights, since it receives tax money, unlike in the US, apart from the subsidy aspect tax-deductible donations to skaters through specific charitable organizations, although I suspect if Boris Chait is in charge, it's whatever he wants.
    We don't know that. But given Chait works with pretty much all Israeli skaters, my guess is, Papa Boria is footing that bill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tak View Post
    When R/T finished their FD the commentator said that next year they'd go to Sphilband [literally that Sphlband would be their main coach]. And they said in their interview that when they leave here [London] they were going to Detroit to work on their programs for next year [which isnt necessarily the same thing although they only showed clips of the interview, not the whole thing].
    They have already been working with Shpilband this season. It's nothing new. He's their secondary coach and they spend part of the year in Novi. Gorshkov and Shpilband have been collaborating since Zueva has ousted him (Fusar-Poli has also been working with Shpilband part of the year).

    They definitely need better programs, they seemed stuck in a rut this season. No noticeable improvement and dull boring routines.

  19. #179
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    http://www.eg.ru/daily/sports/36130/
    Interview with Morozov - anyone willing to translate? From what I've been able to discern, it seems like Morozov is criticizing the technical judges saying that someone named Vitali Baranov replaced the english judge and was corrupt in favor of Ekaterina and Dimitri.

    And here's one with Zhulin:
    http://onyg64tu.nvqws3booj2q.dd34.ru...ting/12454184/
    Last edited by Macassar88; 03-25-2013 at 06:23 PM.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    And sometimes they don't. Besides the fact, I was specifically referring to US and Japanese nationals where the results have a direct bearing on who is selected to represent those countries at the World Championships. Do you think that removing a large part of what is at stake make these events more or less exciting for the TV stations, sponsors and viewers?
    It's certainly important to the TV networks in the US, even for the limited, crap coverage they show, mostly in Olympic years. I don't know the drivers for Japanese TV: did viewership go down the year there was a formula that took other events into consideration for the Olympics? (This is technically is true for every US Nationals, although practically the rule might as well not exist.)

    A skater will skip Nationals only if s/he can and still make the World/Olympic team. Spots are assigned by country, not to specific skaters. Just because Japan might earn five or six spots for Men doesn't mean that Machida, for example, can wake up one morning and say, "I think I'll skip Nationals" unless the Japanese Fed lets him. I just don't see Takahashi slacking at Japanese Nationals because he knows he's top five and why bother.

    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Worlds for everybody then, so the ISU will raise the minimum TES even further and we end up having 5 or 6 dance teams from the US and Russia each, 4 from Canada and then maybe one or two more from the likes of France and Italy. I'm sure you and others would be delighted with that despite the damage it will do to the skating programmes of most of the membership of the ISU as the sport is clearly only here to serve your agenda.
    Yeah, Canada is so deep in Men or Ladies that there would be 4 skaters.

    It isn't clear at all that many nations' programs would shrivel and die if Europeans and 4C's were the last championships in which most of their skaters could compete, especially in Europe, where senior internationals are thriving, and most of those skaters don't have an icycle's chance in hell to make Euros, let alone Worlds.

    The ISU's implementation is not the only way to limit skaters: they could have qualified Worlds spots the same way they select Olympics spots: a fixed number at Worlds and a qualifier like Nebelhorn, even one later in the season and with more open spots, since there were more in singles than 30. They don't have to make it a "Let everyone in": they can create a formula to allow more than three from one country, and it can take into consideration other stats, like the number of skaters in the Top X SB and/or the number of skaters who make GPF. They could have a warmup group consisting of wild card spots and use a Senior B as a skate-off to earn extra spots at Worlds, and they could even make this group skate first.

    My only agenda is to see Kozuka skate. Canada could have seven spots in Ice Dance, and they'd still figure out a way to drop Paul/Islam.

    However, other people who support breaking the limit want to see the best skaters at any given time without national limits. The Federations would never allow a tennis-like model, because that makes their influence moot, but that's another story.

    Since this is the Russia thread, yes, I would like to see more Russian Ladies, Dance, and Pairs compete than the current limit.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 03-25-2013 at 07:15 PM.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

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