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  1. #401

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    Quote Originally Posted by quiqie View Post
    Alexei Yagudin: https://twitter.com/yagudinofficial/...39121452965888

    "World Team Trophy! A unique opportunity to become a world champion for those who would never have been able to do that on their own!:-)"
    He does have a point though. It is like if the title 'world champion' (and Olympic champion) will loose its value. Suddenly there will be so many champions... and some of them would have never earned the title on their own. Let's say Japan wins the team event (based on the strength of their men and ladies). That will mean that their pair (Takahashi with new partner) will be comparable to let's say Savchenko/Szolkovy or Volosozhar/Trankov (or whoever wins the Olympic pair event). The same for their dancers - Reed/Reed's title will be suddenly comparable to Virtue/Moir or Davis/White.
    Last edited by hanca; 04-14-2013 at 12:12 PM.

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    He does have a point though. It is like if the title 'world champion' (and Olympic champion) will loose its value. Suddenly there will be so many champions... and some of them would have never earned the title on their own. Let's say Japan wins the team event (based on the strength of their men and ladies). That will mean that their pair (Takahashi with new partner) will be comparable to let's say Savchenko/Szolkovy or Volosozhar/Trankov (or whoever wins the Olympic pair event). The same for their dancers - Reed/Reed's title will be suddenly comparable to Virtue/Moir or Davis/White.
    Like in fencing, biathlon, swimming, ski jumping and so on.... I don't think that would be wrong.

  3. #403
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    Besides i don't think the individual events will suffer. There is to much history to put the team Gold on the same level as say the Ladies event. I do worry though if a big name skater gets hurt in the team competition. Then there will be hell to pay.
    Last edited by Jammers; 04-14-2013 at 04:24 PM.

  4. #404

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    He does have a point though. It is like if the title 'world champion' (and Olympic champion) will loose its value. Suddenly there will be so many champions... and some of them would have never earned the title on their own. Let's say Japan wins the team event (based on the strength of their men and ladies). That will mean that their pair (Takahashi with new partner) will be comparable to let's say Savchenko/Szolkovy or Volosozhar/Trankov (or whoever wins the Olympic pair event). The same for their dancers - Reed/Reed's title will be suddenly comparable to Virtue/Moir or Davis/White.
    I don't see how it will lose the value of the individual title. IN gymnastics there is a team OGM, an individual all around, and a gold for each apparatus. Each gold medallist is a champion but the individual all around is the most prestigious. With the history of FS, the singles, pairs, etc. champions will still have the prestige they have had over more than 100 years.

  5. #405
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    The only thing i don't like about it is the timing. The team competition needed to be after the individual events. WTF is Speedy thinking?

  6. #406

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    It wasn't the ISU's or Cinquanta's decision: http://www.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    According to Dore, the ISU considered holding the team event at the end of the Games, after figure skating had concluded. NBC, the U.S. television rights holder, wanted to stick with tradition and broadcast the ladies discipline as the final event.

    "You're fighting television contracts, and ladies is the big thing," Dore said. "U.S. television is the biggest monetary contributor to the IOC."
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    He does have a point though. It is like if the title 'world champion' (and Olympic champion) will loose its value. Suddenly there will be so many champions... and some of them would have never earned the title on their own. Let's say Japan wins the team event (based on the strength of their men and ladies). That will mean that their pair (Takahashi with new partner) will be comparable to let's say Savchenko/Szolkovy or Volosozhar/Trankov (or whoever wins the Olympic pair event). The same for their dancers - Reed/Reed's title will be suddenly comparable to Virtue/Moir or Davis/White.
    His point is silly: they will have become World or Olympic champions in something completely different. If you look at the way the ISU has handled results, it's philosophically similar to the way gymnastics handles team vs. individual events: point totals by individual count towards individual things, in gymnastics, the individual events, in FS, towards SB and TES minimums, while the discrete individual rahkings are irrelevant to the event finish, in FS WS points.

    This year in WTT, Japan received no points in Pairs, and, as we've learned, 7 is better than 0: here it was the difference between bronze and one point out of gold position. If R/R and T/K don't compete, Japan could have the best singles and still not be in contention for a medal, let alone make the final. If they earn points toward qualifying for the final and/or the podium, they will have done their job to earn that placement, even if they end up last.

    Japan is unlikely to medal, though, unless T/K become very, very good in a very short time.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 04-15-2013 at 08:32 AM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  8. #408

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I don't see how it will lose the value of the individual title. IN gymnastics there is a team OGM, an individual all around, and a gold for each apparatus. Each gold medallist is a champion but the individual all around is the most prestigious. With the history of FS, the singles, pairs, etc. champions will still have the prestige they have had over more than 100 years.
    Yes but in gymnastics to win team gold you have to have a team of gymnasts who are ALL pretty decent. Whereas in skating it seems that if one of the entry is pretty useless, the others still may make up the points. Look at this years WTT. Japan would have been second if they sent any even novice pair (or any pair created last minute, such as for example make Oda skate with Haruka Imai). They lost seven points because they didn't have any entry in pairs, but with even the worst entry made of skaters who usually don't skate together, they would have been second. So would it be fair that any last minute 'created pair' such as Oda-Imai would have Olympic medal that would be comparable to Savchenko/Szolkovy, Volosozhar/Trankov or perhaps Duhamel/Radford?

  9. #409
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    Keep in mind WTT has more emphasis on singles. Japan will not be in as strong of a position at the Olympics when the disciplines have equal weight.

  10. #410

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    Yes, but it still leaves door open for three entries making up for the fourth weak entry and the weak entry getting undeserved medal. Until now the Olympic medal meant something. It meant that you are a pretty decent skater if you earned Olympic medal. But with the team event, it will mean that others can earn it for you and your skills/ability may be just around 20th place at worlds.

  11. #411

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Yes but in gymnastics to win team gold you have to have a team of gymnasts who are ALL pretty decent. Whereas in skating it seems that if one of the entry is pretty useless, the others still may make up the points. Look at this years WTT.
    Even in gymnastics, the team event has evolved into a group of specialists who score really well on 1 or 2 events and maybe 1 or 2 all around skaters. McKayla Maroney did one event at the Olympics. Then there are teams who don't score well in one event and make up for it by scoring high in others. The Romanian team sucks at UB, but they make up for lost points in events like BB. It's a give and take.

  12. #412

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    The Romanian team sucks at UB, but they make up for lost points in events like BB. It's a give and take.
    But the Romanian team didn't win Olympic team gold...

  13. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Keep in mind WTT has more emphasis on singles. Japan will not be in as strong of a position at the Olympics when the disciplines have equal weight.
    Yes: WTT uses two scores from singles, while the Olympic Team Event will use one SP/SD score and one FS/FD score per discipline. Japan should be one of a handful of nations that likely is vying for two of the five spots, with US, Canada, and Russia likely to get the other three.

    Italy is the only nation that doesn't host a GP that has the best chance to gain one of those two spots, if Kostner skates well in the SP (assuming she will skate the SP). The GP nations are pretty much guaranteed to be one of the ten teams in the event, and the team event shouldn't have any impact on GP picks.


    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    But the Romanian team didn't win Olympic team gold...
    And the chances of Japan winning the Team Gold at Sochi are minimal, given that they can only get credit for one man and one women in Sochi. They have a shot to get into the final, because it's based on placements, not point totals, but almost no chance for a medal, unless all of the other nations' skaters crash and burn.

    It's back to the famous life saving story, that a great swimmer goes to save a drowning person, who fights the rescuer, and the rescuer has to go to the bottom and push off, ever, and over. Exhausted, he gets close to the edge but can't make it, and an old person extends a cane and pulls them both to dock. The save doesn't happen without every piece in place.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 04-14-2013 at 07:51 PM.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  14. #414

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    And the chances of Japan winning the Team Gold at Sochi are minimal, given that they can only get credit for one man and one women in Sochi. They have a shot to get into the final, because it's based on placements, not point totals, but almost no chance for a medal, unless all of the other nations' skaters crash and burn.
    I used Japan as an example. I don't really care what nationality will be the weak entry that will be getting Olympic medal through the efforts of more skilled team mates. I just think it is wrong, no matter what nationality the weaker entry will be from. The same like Russian men getting Olympic medal through the efforts of Volosozhar/Trankov, Adelina or Liza or Julia and Bobrova/Soloviev.

  15. #415
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    The ISU needed to stick to it's guns and say the team competition will be at the end of the Olympic Games. What was NBC going to do bail on them? Highly unlikely with all that money they paid to broadcast the games.

  16. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Looks like Nina Mozer's pairs group plans to train in West Orange, New Jersey in May (additional World Team Trophy-related articles linked at the bottom of the page): http://news.sport-express.ru/2013-04-13/579573/
    Sylvia -thank you for the link. In the article they also mention that in the U.S. Nina Mozer will seek special medical care by a kinesiologist, who helped already in the past. Good to see that apart from technical issues she also very much takes care of good health of her students.

    I found this interview with Adelina Sotnikova on WTT, the past season and future plans linked below the article on V/T very interesting: http://fsrussia.ru/news/560_adelina-...a-i-podvelo--/. I tried to translate the questions and the answers she gave:

    - Adelina, is always difficult to skate last, in particular skate last at the team competition.
    - Lately, it's my favorite number.

    - Did excitement prevent a clean skate?
    - Today surprisingly I didn’t worry and become upset. Possibly this calmness didn`t help. I went on the ice very calm and confident. But obviously something went wrong. We will analyze what was it. Why did it happen? I’m not satisfied with my skate. Though it was not the worst, it could have been better. A lot better.

    - But you fought till the end.
    - Of course I fought and kept on trying. If I had not tried that after the fall, I skated even worse.

    - What did your coach say after your skate?
    - She was very upset, because she knew that today in training I did everything perfectly. Also in the warm-up this time. But suddenly I fell because of some nonsense. Of course my coach wants to understand why this happens. Why the short program was perfect, but the long one didn`t work.

    - Yesterday the Captain of our team, Maxim Trankov, openly admitted that again the whole burden is on the shoulders of our girls.
    - Yes, it was like that. But I tried not to think about it that we had to bear all the responsibility and that the result of the world team trophy actually depended on us.

    - You participated the 2nd time in this competition. When was it more difficult?
    - In the past year. This year I was very calm, actually I’m still shocked, how calm I was.

    - If you assess the results of this season, what mark would you give to yourself on a ten-part scale?
    - I would give myself a four, maybe a three, as I might have skated better and won steadily. For example at the Grand Prix. This year I didn’t reach the Grand Prix Final. The best competition was the European Championships. I won the short program and placed 2nd in Zagreb.

    - You gained experience.
    - Yes, that is experience. However, in the pre-olympic season it was necessary to present myself at the best. But in the end I could do that somewhere, somewhere else not. Now next season I need to skate everywhere perfectly.

    - Do you know you further plans for work?
    - Now I need to go home. I need to pass exams, ЕГЭ (Единый государственный экзамен – that’s probably similar to a-levels?) After that we will think about music, programmes. How they will look like, which emotions, pictures, presentation …

    - Were these competitions very much emotionally draining?
    - To go on the ice after Akiko, when there was such a noise, which hit my ears like a drum. that was very difficult. It is not easy to skate after a Japanese girl in Japan.

    - Is it in general difficult to attend the competition all day to cheer for your teammates?
    - It was the same last year. I worried and survived. I was good that I didn’t watch Kostia yesterday. If I had seen his fall, then I probably would have totally shivered today. In fact this is terrible. You skate your free program, fall and … it’s such a pity. Our whole team supports him. Today we tried to arrange that Kostia didn`t pay attention to his arm, so that it was easier for him to overcome it all.


    She seems to be a very self-critical young lady. I had to laugh about her mentioning falling due to nonsense.

  17. #417

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    She fell on the first flip- like she singled the first flip at euros. Obviously a huge glaring problem is flip control.

  18. #418
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    Thanks for translating!

  19. #419
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    Sot should either use the Lip strategy of 2 2axel3toes in the free skate or else try the 3flip3toe. Her flip is so much better in quality than the lutz which she always flutzes and pitches forward on the landing, and her flip isn't any more inconsistent.

    Perhaps:

    SP: 3flip3toe, 3loop, 2axel

    LP: 3flip3toe, 2axel3toe, 3lutz // 3flip, 3loop2toe2loop, 3sal, 2axel


    If the 3flip3toe is too hard for her to rotate still, perhaps:

    SP: 3toe3toe, 3loop or 3flip, 2axel

    LP: 2axel3toe2toe, 2axel3toe, 3lutz // 3flip2toe2loop, 3flip, 3loop, 3sal

    By the way I am all for her going back to Swan Lake for next season.

  20. #420

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    As for the timing of the team event, I also thought it would be much better to have it at the end as the focus is obviously on the invidual events. However, Patrick Chan said at the WTT press conference that he likes having the team event first. He felt that this gives the skaters the opportunity to get over their competition jitters. Also he said that a successful team event can create a very positive energy for the skaters. He said that skaters are training every day and that physically it should not be such a problem to compete in the team and the individual events. After listening to Patrick's comments, Daisuke Takahashi agreed. He said he hadn't looked at it this way before. Patrick only felt that it is tough for the pairs. Ashley Wagner also said she does not have a problem with the schedule, especially since the Ladies are the last ones to compete.

    As for Russia competing in the team event, Maxim Trankov said that he and Tatiana Volosozhar probably will do the short program at the team event and another team should do the long program. He also mentioned the possibility not to compete in the team event at all if their man doesn't enter. They only have one man and depending on who it will be he might not do the team event because he has to compete four times. It will be interesting to see who it is and what strategy they have. Actually I think their man should focus on the team event because his chances to medal there are probably higher than in the individual event. It all comes down to who it is and how likely are his chances to make the podium in the Men's singles.

    As for the comparison between team and invidual medal - there is much more focus on the individuals in all sports that have team events. People will remember much longer who won the gold in the pairs event than which pair was on let's say team USA that won gold in the team event. So I don't think that the team event takes away from the individual events.

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