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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    I prefer Gachinsky, not Kovtun, Gachi is a beautiful skater. I hope his beautiful jumps will be succesful again.
    Somehow I think Gachinski should have switched coaches about one or two years ago. Mishin for sure is a great coach if it comes to technique, but he openly admitted that other skaters step aside when Plushenko is around. It don`t think that`s mentally healthy surrounding for Gachinsky. As soon as Plushenko is making a comeback, the poor guy has to step aside and his coach’s main focus is Plushy and as soon as he was taking a break from eligible skating, everybody seemed to demand perfect competitive results from Gachinski which reflect a No. 1 position in the team.

    That can`t be good for a skater who is still developing – one day the other guy, one day the expected leading man in team who has to produce. But the problem of course is that it’s difficult to find an alternative, who teaches good technique but is also powerful in terms of politics. Cause I`m pretty sure Russian Federation would not be very fond of such a coaching change.

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    Russian Fed general director V. Piseev said that Stolbova/Klimov have not (yet) switched to N. Mozer.
    http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20130403/654819908.html
    He said that the question is under consideration and that the Figure Skating Federation of St. Petersburg has to look at it.

    Well, I guess if they want to switch and Mozer takes them, they can't be stopped in the end. The Petersburg Federation doesn't want to loose them obviously, because then they'll have only Kawaguchi/Smirnov left. Their junior teams fell apart and I am not sure if Gerboldt/Enbert exist anymore.

  3. #303
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    going all in one to Mozer wont be good, she is getting way too much credit when V/T were already amazing to pair with

    meanwhile for JGP might be possible to continue another skater to sweep the top podium: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW92WN4fBa8

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    S/K didn't earn their way to Euros in 2012 they were sent there due to the surgery of Smirnov. Not only were K/S not there but neither was S/S. If S/S were there, they would have been 4th and if K/S were there, they would have been home. Same goes for their nationals medals as well. They have had some great opportunities at the cost of sick and injured skaters, I hope they do a lot with the move but I'm not holding out hope, maybe they will get a better twist.
    S/K did earn their way to Europeans. They were the first substitutes because of their results at nationals. If they were not good at nationals, someone else could have been sent.

    I know that S/S wasn't there, so with S/S there they would have been 4th, but it is how things happen in life. When Chan won his world championships, he didn't say "I won because ...(list of previous world and Olympic champions)...are not here". And Carolina Kostner didn't say last year "I won but only because Yu-Na Kim is not here". People remember a skater for their achievement, not for who else did not compete at that one competition. They were lucky, but they still managed to beat in that competition everyone apart of 2 other Russian pairs.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eislauffan View Post
    Russian Fed general director V. Piseev said that Stolbova/Klimov have not (yet) switched to N. Mozer.
    http://rsport.ru/figure_skating/20130403/654819908.html
    He said that the question is under consideration and that the Figure Skating Federation of St. Petersburg has to look at it.
    Thank you for the update, Eislauffan.

    Talking about skaters based in St. Petersburg are there any news on Ksenia Makarova?

  6. #306

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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    going all in one to Mozer wont be good, she is getting way too much credit when V/T were already amazing to pair with

    meanwhile for JGP might be possible to continue another skater to sweep the top podium: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW92WN4fBa8
    Russia has a few very talented young girls coming, but this season it won't be that easy. US response to Russian dominance at junior level is "Let's grow our own Polina". And their Polina will be eligible to JGP next season; she won their junior nationals and she has two triple-triple combinations in her FS, so she has the technical content to fight with the young Russians. The question is whether she is consistent. It will depend who can manage their nerves and perform under pressure.

    (By the way, their Polina is also of Russian background - after her mother.)

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    going all in one to Mozer wont be good, she is getting way too much credit when V/T were already amazing to pair with
    V/T weren't a pair in anything but name when they went to Mozer, and they said they had different technique on the major elements. They didn't just spring from the thigh of Zeus or meet across fields with her in a flowery summer dress like in a feminine hygiene commercial.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  8. #308

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    S/K did earn their way to Europeans. They were the first substitutes because of their results at nationals. If they were not good at nationals, someone else could have been sent.

    I know that S/S wasn't there, so with S/S there they would have been 4th, but it is how things happen in life. When Chan won his world championships, he didn't say "I won because ...(list of previous world and Olympic champions)...are not here". And Carolina Kostner didn't say last year "I won but only because Yu-Na Kim is not here". People remember a skater for their achievement, not for who else did not compete at that one competition. They were lucky, but they still managed to beat in that competition everyone apart of 2 other Russian pairs.
    I'm not taking about other skaters.

    S/K were alternates who were lucky enough to get an opportunity to go to Euros (not once but twice) that they wouldn't have had normally. Same with G/E in 2011.

    It's not like they beat K/S to get there and S/S for the medal. They were lucky to get the bronze when they did and have K/S and S/S to thank for it. You made it sound like going from 3rd to 6th was a huge fall from grace when in reality they wouldn't have been good enough to go themselves without the misfortune of others.

    Maybe that will change this year and they can rightfully earn a spot only time will tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    V/T weren't a pair in anything but name when they went to Mozer, and they said they had different technique on the major elements. They didn't just spring from the thigh of Zeus or meet across fields with her in a flowery summer dress like in a feminine hygiene commercial.
    They were only a pair in name, but both were very accomplished skaters. It's not like they were novice/juniors who didn't know their right from left and Moser pulled them up to a world gold medal from scratch. Both of them were 4th in the world at one point in time with different partners and coaches. I really think any coach would have done well for them. Having to vary the technique of good skaters who already know how to do a throw is a far cry from teaching skaters who have never done one before.

    I would like to see how far she can take a brand new pairs team.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    They were only a pair in name, but both were very accomplished skaters. It's not like they were novice/juniors who didn't know their right from left and Moser pulled them up to a world gold medal from scratch. Both of them were 4th in the world at one point in time with different partners and coaches.
    I never argued otherwise that they were great pairs skaters who had success with other partners.

    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    I really think any coach would have done well for them. Having to vary the technique of good skaters who already know how to do a throw is a far cry from teaching skaters who have never done one before.
    Sometimes it's more difficult to have people unlearn skills than it is to teach them new ones. V/T adjusted quite quickly, but there was no guarantee, and that they became a couple was a risk.

    I disagree that any coach would have done well with them by definition: I think Mozer gave them a good place to re-adjust and deal with the pressure. From the moment they were announced they were already being touted as the saviors of Sochi and the great Russian pairs tradition.

    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    I would like to see how far she can take a brand new pairs team.
    Fine, but that's generally not the way the system has worked in Russia, and they seem to be getting back to having developmental coaches feeding to top coaches.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 04-05-2013 at 04:58 PM.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  10. #310

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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    going all in one to Mozer wont be good, she is getting way too much credit when V/T were already amazing to pair with

    meanwhile for JGP might be possible to continue another skater to sweep the top podium: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW92WN4fBa8
    I totally agree, I am sure she has done a great job but V/T were extremely talented (two of the most talented) and experienced skaters around, it certainly doesn't mean she can work miracles with B/L and S/K. Besides, 3 top pairs before Olympics, really?? I wouldnt be v happy if I were V/T.

  11. #311
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    one of the three will be left out, S/K ?? maybe after 2014 their time will come
    why I'm puzzles they didn't go to Moskvina because she will retire ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    I'm not taking about other skaters.

    S/K were alternates who were lucky enough to get an opportunity to go to Euros (not once but twice) that they wouldn't have had normally. Same with G/E in 2011.

    It's not like they beat K/S to get there and S/S for the medal. They were lucky to get the bronze when they did and have K/S and S/S to thank for it. You made it sound like going from 3rd to 6th was a huge fall from grace when in reality they wouldn't have been good enough to go themselves without the misfortune of others.

    Maybe that will change this year and they can rightfully earn a spot only time will tell.
    The highlighted part of sentence can be applied to most pairs at Europeans and 4CC. The weak pairs are 'lucky enough' that there is no one stronger in their country, and the stronger pairs are 'lucky enough' that either they were not inured, or that someone in their country is not even better than them...a lot in elite skating is about luck. Pair A who is generally better than a pair B may fall in a competition that is used as a qualifying competition for Europeans and then pair B is sent instead... No system is ever completely fair, and a lot of it is to do with luck. The bottom line is that S/K were good enough to be alternates which means that they were 4th in a country who has a very strong pair program. As you saw, being 4th in such country can mean that you are actually stronger than most countries number 1. If they were not good enough to be fourth in their country and lucky that another pair above them couldn't go, they wouldn't go. But to claim that they didn't qualify is incorrect. They did qualify and therefore they went and competed (and got bronze medal).

  13. #313
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    S&K were lucky with the WDs in 2012 but they did make the most of it by winning a medal, and it wasn't a medal by default. They had to beat Berton/Hotarek who are a decent team (GP medalists). This year they skated worse, losing to B&H and also James/Cipres. S&K absolutely could have won bronze again this year. K&S did not skate well at all and this would have been an opportune time to beat them and try to get a Worlds ticket. So yes, I think S&K regressed this year.

    I don't think V&T will mind the extra pairs. This is the group that swept Euros in 2012 and Maxim was beyond thrilled. I think he'll just love mentoring two younger pairs, sharing his wisdom... he likes to talk and feels he has very important things to say. I know B&L beat them in the GPF LP, but they're hardly a credible threat to V&T.

  14. #314

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    The weak pairs are 'lucky enough' that there is no one stronger in their country
    Not even close to being the same thing. The best in the country is the best in the country-not 4th place or in S/K case not chosen to represent and only sent on a technicality.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    I don't think V&T will mind the extra pairs. This is the group that swept Euros in 2012 and Maxim was beyond thrilled. I think he'll just love mentoring two younger pairs, sharing his wisdom... he likes to talk and feels he has very important things to say. .
    How true.

    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    Not even close to being the same thing. The best in the country is the best in the country-not 4th place or in S/K case not chosen to represent and only sent on a technicality.
    A technicality is when someone didn't sign the right paperwork by a deadline. An injury substitution is a regular occurance that's codified in the entry/selection process.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    A technicality is when someone didn't sign the right paperwork by a deadline. An injury substitution is a regular occurance that's codified in the entry/selection process.
    That's not a technicality, that's irresponsibility.

    As bad as it is to have a teammate injured, S/K were the recipients of their misfortune. S/K were not “selected” to the Euros team based on their skating V/T, K/S and B/L were, only by default two years in a row, were they selected to go at the last minute and neither time did the fed see fit to send them to worlds even with a bronze medal in their pocket.

    Technicality, luck, “a regular occurrence that's codified in the entry/selection process” whatever you choose to define it...it would be great to see them actually get a spot on the team without waiting around to see if something happens to a teammate who place above you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    That's not a technicality, that's irresponsibility.

    As bad as it is to have a teammate injured, S/K were the recipients of their misfortune. S/K were not “selected” to the Euros team based on their skating V/T, K/S and B/L were, only by default two years in a row, were they selected to go at the last minute and neither time did the fed see fit to send them to worlds even with a bronze medal in their pocket.

    Technicality, luck, “a regular occurrence that's codified in the entry/selection process” whatever you choose to define it...it would be great to see them actually get a spot on the team without waiting around to see if something happens to a teammate who place above you.
    It is pretty common to be sent to 4CC/Europeans/worlds because someone better was injured. Pechalat-Bourzat were injured, another French dance couple went to Europeans instead. When US pair No 1 was injured this season, their number 2,3 and 4 went to compete. The same way someone from Canada got lucky that Weaver-Poje couldn't go to 4CC because she was injured. That doesn't mean that whoever replaced them went there purely on technicality. they had to deserve it! They had to meet the qualifying score given by ISU and be the next in the line in their country. Would you say that Mirai Nagasu got her second GP event on technicality, that actually she didn't qualify? Because she got it only because someone else withdrew.

    What you are saying (the highlighted part in your post) sound pretty arrogant, because injuries are a normal part of competitive skating, and I believe that every skater at some stage of their career benefited from someone else's withdrawal. There is no shame in it. It would be different if Stolbova went and whacked any of her team mates over their head to get their spot...but she didn't.

  18. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    As bad as it is to have a teammate injured, S/K were the recipients of their misfortune. S/K were not “selected” to the Euros team based on their skating V/T, K/S and B/L were, only by default two years in a row, were they selected to go at the last minute and neither time did the fed see fit to send them to worlds even with a bronze medal in their pocket.
    Your original comment was that it's not like dropping from 3rd to 6th at Euros was a fall from grace because they only got that 3rd due to withdrawals. That was after hanca's statement that they have been inconsistent in seniors, dropping from bronze to a 6th place. I agree that their bronze was possible due to withdrawals, but they did drop in 2013, behind the Italians and the French, so I agree with hanca that their results in 2013 were disappointing for them. B&H were not great at Euros 2013 and it was within S&K's abilities to beat them. They are not performing up to their potential in the GP either, so I think a coaching change is not a bad idea.

  19. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by julieann View Post
    That's not a technicality, that's irresponsibility.
    Because no bureaucracy has ever send the wrong paperwork or indicated the wrong deadline.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  20. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    meanwhile for JGP might be possible to continue another skater to sweep the top podium: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW92WN4fBa8
    Maria Sotskova won the SP (66.14) with the above performance.

    Here's is Sotskova's 2nd place FS (122.11) from the same competition: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXNH46FUXfE
    Sotskova placed 2nd overall (186.25).

    Results page: http://fsrussia.ru/upl/results/1213/nno2013/index.htm
    ETA: This is the Nationals for singles skaters "born in 1996 and younger; partners in pair skating and ice dancing - born in 1994 and younger."

    Evgenia Medvedeva placed 1st overall (188.94). Her 3rd place SP (60.28): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VOweXUledE ; her 1st place FS (128.66): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vPZc8nqAHc

    Natalia Ogoreltseva's 2nd place SP (62.44): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr3SYi77RAs

    All 3 girls will be old enough to debut on the JGP this fall, I believe?

    ETA that I started a new thread in Kiss and Cry for this competition: 2013 Russian Championship (younger skaters), April 1-4
    Last edited by Sylvia; 04-05-2013 at 08:25 PM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

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