View Poll Results: Who gets 3rd spot on Olympic team for Canada in ice dancing

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  • Orford & Williams

    7 7.29%
  • Asher & Hill

    2 2.08%
  • Gilles & Poirier

    34 35.42%
  • Paul & Islam

    53 55.21%
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  1. #21
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    I would love to see P/I's luck change, with the injuries and their unfortunate fall in the FD and Canadians, they haven't had a chance to really show their skating to it's true potential.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pratfall View Post
    I don't know where you get that G/P probably would have been 12th...I think the best they could have done was maybe 2 or 3 placements higher , considering the rest of the field.. The only thing that makes sense to me is that SC should really be giving all four of these couples an even break , but they haven't, beginning with 2012 Canadians. ( Actually, the shenanigans might have begun in 2011, when C/P were still together , but that's another topic).
    Actually, looking at the World's PCS marks, I think kates8 might be correct. G/P had the 13th highest PCS marks in spite of the fall; their PCS for a clean skate at 4Cs would work out to be about the 11th best at Worlds, so 12th isn't that bad an estimate. All year, G/P have scored higher in the FD than the SD, so I could have seen them moving up a couple spots from 15th if they'd been clean.

    That said, I hate that freedance and hope they have something better next year.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Impromptu View Post
    Actually, looking at the World's PCS marks, I think kates8 might be correct. G/P had the 13th highest PCS marks in spite of the fall; their PCS for a clean skate at 4Cs would work out to be about the 11th best at Worlds, so 12th isn't that bad an estimate. All year, G/P have scored higher in the FD than the SD, so I could have seen them moving up a couple spots from 15th if they'd been clean.
    Their PCS scores may have been 13th, but their TES mark was 18th, which is why they ended up in 18th.

  4. #24

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    Just to add some context, Ralph & Hill had their only appearance at Worlds last year. They finished in 13th. P&P just finished 18th. I hope R&H, O&W, P&I, and yes, Edwards & Pang, all take heart at these results and come out with some really stellar programs in the fall.

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2012/CAT008RS.HTM

    This year, R&H didn't have a very good free dance (last year, their Tango was really good). I hope they get some really good programs next year, even if they have to go to someone outside Scarboro to get them; Paul and Piper go to Dean, so certainly Kharis & Asher could go somewhere else for their programs.

  5. #25

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    I'm fairly sure the plan for Edwards and Pang is to go back on the JGP and go back to junior worlds. I guess with the short dance being the same for junior an senior they could do both, but I still don't see them in the mix.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  6. #26
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    I really hope it will be Gilles & Poirier. I love Paul, and I think he and Pipper are beautiful together, and a strong and interesting ice dance team.
    Please !!!!

  7. #27

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    G/P are not a strong team as yet. Piper is nowhere near Paul's level as an ice dancer. Skate Canada is very high on them, but apparently ISU judges don't share the same opinion. However, as long as Skate Canada sticks with their assessment, G/P are likely to be the #3.

  8. #28
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    E/P have to move up to Seniors nationally. I think they could shake things up a bit at the senior level ,much as O/W did when they moved up. ( It's not that I think they'll step right up and take 3rd )

    euterpe .. I agree , I only hope SC has been shaken somewhat by this..enough to be open to some other outcome.

    doris..R/H are certainly deserving of better material than they had this year. I felt that there was much more energy put into G/P..though R/H had garnered some very positive notice the year before.

    I'm not worried about P/I's material, if this years programs are anything to judge by..they just need to channel some of that W/P grit.

    I think O/W need to just keep working as they have been, technically, and up the artistic quotient of their programs.

    But there will be nothing any of them can do, if SC has it's mind made up beforehand.
    Last edited by Pratfall; 03-18-2013 at 11:10 PM.

  9. #29
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    ITA, Pratfall, with everything you've said thus far. You're taking the words right out of my mouth.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    I'm fairly sure the plan for Edwards and Pang is to go back on the JGP and go back to junior worlds. I guess with the short dance being the same for junior an senior they could do both, but I still don't see them in the mix.
    The rhythm is the same, but the pattern dances are different (they each have a different beat as well, so I'm not even sure the same music could be used for both).

    Senior
    The Tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance Elements must be constant and in accordance with the required Tempo of the Pattern Dance Finnstep, i.e. 52 measures of two beats or 104 beats per minute, plus or minus 2 beats per minute.

    Junior
    The Tempo of the music throughout the Pattern Dance Elements must be constant and in accordance with the required Tempo of the Pattern Dance Quickstep, i.e. 56 measures of two beats or 112 beats per minute, plus or minus 2 beats per minute.

  11. #31
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    I want Paul and Piper go because Paul is an incredible dancer. Are the Gilles both citizens? I noticed Alexe is one of Canada's now too.

  12. #32
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    I'm surprised no one has suggested this, but it seems clear some politiking is behind this situation. G/P getting those high scores at 4CC at a time when it was doubtful whether Kaitlyn and Andrew would be able to skate at worlds, so it was obvious that they were being pushed as the "# 2" team to get as high a placement as they could at worlds to hopefully get 3 spots for the Olympics. Of course, W/P ended up skating at worlds, so the politiking support for G/P was lost, as Canada would now pretty much be guaranteed 3 spots with V/M and W/P, so judges hammered them for mistakes, and of course, it doesn't look too good when all 3 dance teams from the same country finish too high, so there must be some sacrifices.

    That being said, I do have a question, why is it in dance, finishing in the top 2 doesn't guarantee 3 spots, where in singles, it does? Just curious, does anyone know, or is it just like that in the rules? (Perhaps there are less dance spots than singles?)

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ltnskater View Post
    I'm surprised no one has suggested this, but it seems clear some politiking is behind this situation. G/P getting those high scores at 4CC at a time when it was doubtful whether Kaitlyn and Andrew would be able to skate at worlds, so it was obvious that they were being pushed as the "# 2" team to get as high a placement as they could at worlds to hopefully get 3 spots for the Olympics. Of course, W/P ended up skating at worlds, so the politiking support for G/P was lost, as Canada would now pretty much be guaranteed 3 spots with V/M and W/P, so judges hammered them for mistakes, and of course, it doesn't look too good when all 3 dance teams from the same country finish too high, so there must be some sacrifices.
    Yes I agree that definitely took place as well. It just shows how huge a difference politics can make in dance too, even today. I am sure some of the baffling results of recent years, such as the Shibutanis bronze at the 2011 Worlds were political based too (more time for Shpilband the political mastermind to push for them with V&M missing almost the whole season). At 4CCs Gilles & Poirer were marked as if they were close to Chock & Bates and the Shibutanis (which I was baffled and stunned by), but by Worlds they were a much lower league than both in the judges eyes, even had they skated perfectly.

  14. #34
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    That being said, I do have a question, why is it in dance, finishing in the top 2 doesn't guarantee 3 spots, where in singles, it does? Just curious, does anyone know, or is it just like that in the rules? (Perhaps there are less dance spots than singles?)
    The rules are the same for all disciplines. To get 3 spots the top 2 skaters/teams from a country must combine to 13 or less. However if only one skater is at worlds, then that skater/team must finish top 2.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    The rules are the same for all disciplines. To get 3 spots the top 2 skaters/teams from a country must combine to 13 or less. However if only one skater is at worlds, then that skater/team must finish top 2.
    Ahh, yes, I completely forgot about that. Which is, had the 2nd Kazakhstan skater never competed, Denis Ten would have gotten 3 spots for his country by virtue of his 2nd place finish, but now they only get 2.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ltnskater View Post
    I'm surprised no one has suggested this, but it seems clear some politiking is behind this situation. G/P getting those high scores at 4CC at a time when it was doubtful whether Kaitlyn and Andrew would be able to skate at worlds, so it was obvious that they were being pushed as the "# 2" team to get as high a placement as they could at worlds to hopefully get 3 spots for the Olympics. Of course, W/P ended up skating at worlds, so the politiking support for G/P was lost, as Canada would now pretty much be guaranteed 3 spots with V/M and W/P, so judges hammered them for mistakes, and of course, it doesn't look too good when all 3 dance teams from the same country finish too high, so there must be some sacrifices.
    I'm confused by some of the comments in this statement. If that were indeed the case for the so called #3 team, then how does that explain Russia's 3, 9, 11 placements or USA's 1, 7, 8?

    For 4C's, G/P had a better skate overall and none of the European teams competed there. I have always liked P/I, but they really need to show consistency and I hope that DSC coaches will push hard for them to get SC.

  17. #37

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    If the politicking was lost for G/P at Worlds, then all the better, they're finally paying for the mistakes that they're making this season and judges finally called them on it at Worlds. She is technically so inferior to Vanessa and isn't half the skater that she was. They're nowhere near ready to challenge for the top yet. The fact that they beat V/M on the tech mark at Nationals was absolutely ludicrous. Carol Lane must have been doing some serious @ss kissing behind the scenes in order to get them that high.

    All things equal, I do think that Paul/Islam really are the third best team in Canada. Unfortunately, they've had such rotten luck with injuries and falls and the like. I really hope that they can find the time and put a good season together in order to challenge for that third spot. If it all comes together, they really do have the potential to be absolutely spectacular. Their lines, extension and expression are absolutely exquisite now. If they can just find the right vehicles and maybe a little bit of luck, then they really should be the third team that goes to Sochi.
    Kyle

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DORISPULASKI View Post
    Just to add some context, Ralph & Hill had their only appearance at Worlds last year. They finished in 13th. P&P just finished 18th. I hope R&H, O&W, P&I, and yes, Edwards & Pang, all take heart at these results and come out with some really stellar programs in the fall.

    http://www.isuresults.com/results/wc2012/CAT008RS.HTM

    This year, R&H didn't have a very good free dance (last year, their Tango was really good). I hope they get some really good programs next year, even if they have to go to someone outside Scarboro to get them; Paul and Piper go to Dean, so certainly Kharis & Asher could go somewhere else for their programs.
    Hey, that's right, Ralph and Hill did have a higher finish.. that makes me more optimistic for their chances.. I love them! I voted for them even though I really have no idea who it's going to be.

  19. #39
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    G-P beat V-M on the technical mark?!? For serious? I... what?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoralReef View Post
    I'm confused by some of the comments in this statement. If that were indeed the case for the so called #3 team, then how does that explain Russia's 3, 9, 11 placements or USA's 1, 7, 8?

    For 4C's, G/P had a better skate overall and none of the European teams competed there. I have always liked P/I, but they really need to show consistency and I hope that DSC coaches will push hard for them to get SC.
    I will address the 2nd comment first, yes, G/P had a better skate overall at 4CC, but really? 97 points at 4CC compared to 81 i think at worlds? 16 point difference for a mistake on a twizzle? Even when other European teams are at worlds, that is a little ridiculous (in terms of disparity between the marks between competitions). Personally, I think 81 was too low at worlds (I felt that they had improved over the season and even with the mistake should have scored a few marks higher), and 97 was too high at 4CC. Think back to the grand prix season and their scores, getting around 84 points for the FD in BOTH their events.

    So when they skate well as they can, they seem to score around 85, the only anomaly being 4CC where they scored much higher in the high 90s. Take note that this was the time when W/P was injured and doubtful to skate at worlds, meaning G/P needed a top 11 finish to guarantee 3 spots in Sochi for Canada. That's what I mean by some politiking going on.

    To address your 1st comment, Russian boost is quite obvious, Sochi Olympics, clearly no team is going to catch D/W or V/M, the best they can hope for is 3rd hence the bronze medal. The other 2 teams needed to be around where they finished to get 3 spots for Russia. Meteoric rise of Chock/Bates is a little puzzling to me & fall of the Shibs (former bronze medallist at worlds) seems more like a situation showing the falling support of 1 team and the rise of another from the same country. The fact is the #3 team from the US are good enough to place as high as they did in their "tier". What I think it really boils down to is this, there are a number of teams below V/M and D/W that are similar enough in skating ability (the "tier" i was referring to before) to allow for such politiking placements to happen. It is therefore difficult, even with the politiking, to put a team that is obviously in a lower tier, into a higher one. The best example is the rest of the world cannot touch the top 2 teams because they are in a tier of their own (although deservedly so, because their skating is indeed far superior to any other team). So that being said, both #2/#3 American and #1/#2 Russian teams are all in that "tier" extending from roughly 3rd - 10th. The next lower tier seem to be the rest of the field, and it seems that #3 Russian team happened to finish at the top of the pack of that tier this time around.

    Of course, this is hard to prove, but the results from past competitions suggest this kind of "system" in place, even if it is not official.

    To kylet3, I don't believe there was much politiking support for G/P throughout the season (and if there was, it really didn't show too well), their scores seemed about right and only inflated at 4CCs, purpose being to push G/P up in the standings after W/P were out. Seems like Skate Canada promotes G/P hard as the #3 Canadian team, but lets them develop in their first senior GP season. You also can't expect G/P to be as good as C/P after not even 2 years together, compared to a decade of skating together.

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