View Poll Results: Who will be the third U.S. lady at the Olympics?

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  • Alissa Czisny

    21 9.59%
  • Rachael Flatt

    5 2.28%
  • Christina Gao

    104 47.49%
  • Courtney Hicks

    12 5.48%
  • Mirai Nagasu

    40 18.26%
  • Agnes Zawadzki

    29 13.24%
  • Caroline Zhang

    3 1.37%
  • Other (Please Specify)

    5 2.28%
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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    Mirai's 4th in Vancouver was her last great performance. She's been getting UR calls from both US and ISU judges in just about every event since then, and she hasn't been the same performer, either. All the exuberance has gone out of her performances and her FSs in particular are robotic, joyless and devoid of musicality. She just doesn't seem to want to skate any more. Mirai would be on the bottom of my list of potential US Olympic competitors. She has the talent, but not the will to excel.
    Yes that is true, Mirai also had a great short program at 2010 worlds and since then it has been downhill. I do, however, feel that Mirai would do better as the third skater w no expectations on her. If she made the team, with everyone thinking she will fail or not amount to much, I think she could do quite well IF (a big if ) she gets her fighting spirit back.

    Most people on this board think Mirai is over and to a certain extent that may be true. But on sheet talent alone, Mirai, if she skated like she did before, could medal. If she skates well on GP next season, it will be a decision, whether to go w sure bets who will have a top 10 performance at best (Gao, who I expect will go back to school after the Olympics) or Agnes (who i think will quit after next year especially if not make olympics bc she indicated before she wants to quit) or one of the younger girls for experience alone in prep for 2018 OR go with wild card with potentially big return (Mirai). I do not think Agnes or Gao will stick around for 2018 and I don't see them picking one of the younger girls over them for that third spot, so from a USFS perspective, Mirai offers a more attractive option bc if she is skating well enough to get on the team she could potentially medal whereas I do not see Gao or Agnes medaling,

    Mirai is still young, and we could easily have written off Carolina years ago after she completely bombed multiple times in intl competition. Alissa, too, she didn't do well last year but if we would have written her off after 2010 we would not have seen how good she was in later seasons... If Mirai were not so good I would write her off too but since we got that third spot, I would be willing to see how she does next season and if she is doing well, I would give her that spot. Granted she has to show she deserves it, but if she skates to ability she will place in top 3 at nationals.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post

    Hicks is still clunky to me but she's getting better. Despite how huge her jumps are she needs to work on her UR issues as well as better presentation.
    I think she doesn't have any presentation at all currently. She puts in the effort, but it is really ineffective, generic, and calls into question her basic dance ability.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie12 View Post
    Yes that is true, Mirai also had a great short program at 2010 worlds and since then it has been downhill. I do, however, feel that Mirai would do better as the third skater w no expectations on her. If she made the team, with everyone thinking she will fail or not amount to much, I think she could do quite well IF (a big if ) she gets her fighting spirit back.

    Most people on this board think Mirai is over and to a certain extent that may be true. But on sheet talent alone, Mirai, if she skated like she did before, could medal. If she skates well on GP next season, it will be a decision, whether to go w sure bets who will have a top 10 performance at best (Gao, who I expect will go back to school after the Olympics) or Agnes (who i think will quit after next year especially if not make olympics bc she indicated before she wants to quit) or one of the younger girls for experience alone in prep for 2018 OR go with wild card with potentially big return (Mirai). I do not think Agnes or Gao will stick around for 2018 and I don't see them picking one of the younger girls over them for that third spot, so from a USFS perspective, Mirai offers a more attractive option bc if she is skating well enough to get on the team she could potentially medal whereas I do not see Gao or Agnes medaling,

    Mirai is still young, and we could easily have written off Carolina years ago after she completely bombed multiple times in intl competition. Alissa, too, she didn't do well last year but if we would have written her off after 2010 we would not have seen how good she was in later seasons... If Mirai were not so good I would write her off too but since we got that third spot, I would be willing to see how she does next season and if she is doing well, I would give her that spot. Granted she has to show she deserves it, but if she skates to ability she will place in top 3 at nationals.
    IMO, Mirai was better at 2011 4CC's.

    Carolina was a noted headcase from '06 - '10. That's 4 years. So, there possibly is time for Mirai, who turns 20 this year, to finally realize her dream.

  4. #84
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    I strongly believe Mirai is still a contender in the US. I think the biggest problem for her the past few years have been her programs. The choreography for her past 3 LPs do not bring out the best of her qualities. I mean seriously, Spartacus has to be one of the worst programs Lori Nichol has choreographed. I see Mirai where Ashley was before the 2010 Olympic year. Mirai has medalled in at least 1 GP and been alternate for the GPF in the past 3 years. It shocks me that people on this forum are saying 'She doesn't want to skate anymore'. There have been no interviews in which Mirai said she wants to quit. To me, it seems Mirai is taking responsibility for her skating and balancing her family situation by leaving Frank, work with the coaches in her area and increase her off-ice conditioning. It seems like Frank tried to rush Mirai's maturation by skating to sophisticated programs and Mirai took that lesson with her the next season, but she should really be skating to whatever she likes or empowers her. Mirai has said that she lacks funding to hire top choreographers (like Lori Nichol who stopped giving Mirai good programs after she left Wong, except for POTC). She could go for Braden Overett or Cindy Stuart. Susan Austin just isn't in the same league, choreographing for juniors: you can easily see the difference in the step sequences. Jumps wise, Mirai has very similar jumping technique with Akiko Suzuki and will do well once she gets the rotation and gets rid of the hooking technique she learned from Wong. And people keep complaining that USFS has given her so many chances. USFS gave Flatt, Czisny, and Zawadski numerous chances. Mirai should've went to worlds in 2011. for the 2013 GPs, Mirai had a top 24 WR and top 11 SB and was bypassed a second GP for Zawadski. Even both of Zawadski's bronze medals at nationals are argued.

    Christina had a really good GP this year but she skated amongst an easier field than Mirai who had to face Korpi, Suzuki, Asada, and Lipnitskaya (before concussion). If Mirai had rightfully won silver at NHK without Asada's rep-scoring, Mirai would have won the tiebreaker and gone to GPF. Christina really should have been bronze at nationals and had a very respectable 4CC. Christina has grown immensely this season artistically. IMO, Christina Gao and Mirai Nagasu seem to be on an even field. I really hope one of them get chosen for WTT for the first time.

    Back to the OT. USFS will do no favors for Flatt and Czisny if they return. They will continuously prop Zawadski. I am very confused by their support for sloppy Hicks at nationals. I don't even think Wagner and Gold's place on the team is set in stone either.

    Wagner, Gold, Zawadski, Gao and Nagasu all have a chance to go to Sochi, but I'd rather it not be Zawadski who has shown the least consistency of the five.

    In the chance that USFS wants to send a newcomer, I hope they promote Angela Wang and that she gets sent to Worlds because she will still be around for 2018 and seems to be the future of US figure skating along with Gold.
    Last edited by icellist; 03-19-2013 at 10:17 PM.

  5. #85
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    I also know this is the wrong thread but I'm on a roll and continuing. Out of the US ladies, I see Czisny and Nagasu as great coaches for the future of US. Both have impeccable carriage and seem to love what they do. Czisny won't be a technical coach but she can surely teach spins. Both of them also have the best skating skills of the bunch too. While everyone has been gawking over Wagner's power the past 2 seasons, her skating skills are still thin compared to Yuna Kim and Carolina Kostner. Edge and blade work wise, Czisny and Nagasu have shown great aptitude in these areas (check out their programs pre-2012), while Czisny lacks in power. Gracie is improving this area by working with ice dancing coaches and Angela Wang has a good basic skating skills like Nagasu circa Charlene Wong.

    Still, the rest of the world's ladies don't hold a candle next to Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, Akiko Suzuki, and (to a lesser extent) Mao Asada's step sequences.

  6. #86
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    Mirai has a shot but IMO her odds are much lower than Gao, and Zawadzki too. I'd be surprised if she gets it. And Agnes is only 18, I would be very surprised if she retires after 2014. Christina I can see it because she goes to Harvard and wants to be a doctor, seeing as she already started, I'd doubt she'd want to take several years in a row off, unless she goes back to doing both after the Olympics. Agnes is at college but UC Colorado Springs, right near where she trains and I don't think she's even a full time student so to me, her situation is different and I'd be very surprised if she doesn't stick around until, or after, 2018, especially if she doesn't make the Olympic team next season.

  7. #87
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    I voted for Christina, but I also believe that Agnes and Courtney could possibly have a good chance.
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post
    I still have some faith in Mirai but along with skating lights out at Nationals she will have to be very impressive in the GP series and possibly make the GPF. I think will know if the USFSA is even open to sending her to the Olympics if she gets two assignments on the GP.
    Did Mirai do anything to the mother of the USFSA president? I don't know why she is unpopular, but perhaps the USFSA thinks she needs toughness and criticism. They have given her few breaks. Despite Agnes "skating like garbage"--as JudgeJudy puts it--at grand prixs, nationals, and four continents, Zawadzski seems popular among the NBC commentators and the USFSA judges.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinky166 View Post
    Mirai has a shot but IMO her odds are much lower than Gao, and Zawadzki too. I'd be surprised if she gets it. And Agnes is only 18, I would be very surprised if she retires after 2014. Christina I can see it because she goes to Harvard and wants to be a doctor, seeing as she already started, I'd doubt she'd want to take several years in a row off, unless she goes back to doing both after the Olympics. Agnes is at college but UC Colorado Springs, right near where she trains and I don't think she's even a full time student so to me, her situation is different and I'd be very surprised if she doesn't stick around until, or after, 2018, especially if she doesn't make the Olympic team next season.
    The commentators noted that Agnes was thinking about quitting last year but she kept going. If she does not make Sochi, I am not sure if she will have the will to continue competing, if she already had qualms about continuing. It takes a lot of internal strength I think to suffer such big disappointment in not making an Olympic team and then continue on for 4 long hard years. I admire Ashley for her resolve in that front, b/c it must have been super hard to get passed over in 2010. I think if that happens to Agnes, I am not so sure she will take the same approach as Ashley- she may just end up quitting. Christina will have to make a choice, I see her as being a Sarah Hughes, where she will compete in Olympics, if chosen, then continue on with her school life; no matter what happens, I don't think she will continue on to 2018, unless she is like Emily Hughes, takes some time off, then comes back once she is done college.

    For Ashley, Mirai, Gracie, skating is their life, isn't it? They have no plans of going to school? Ashley may continue on to 2016 if she wants a world medal but I don't see her continuing to 2018. Gracie, and Mirai, maybe. As long as Mirai can afford to do so, I don't see why Mirai would quit if she wants to continue skating...

  10. #90
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    The direction Mirai is going in I dont see her staying until 2018. How would she motivate herself to continue once she is down in 12th or 14th at Nationals. USFSA dumpage is not a pretty thing as we have seen with Zhang and others, and that plus she would probably be well past her prime skating wise by then considering she is already somewhat past it now.

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by icellist View Post
    I also know this is the wrong thread but I'm on a roll and continuing. Out of the US ladies, I see Czisny and Nagasu as great coaches for the future of US. Both have impeccable carriage and seem to love what they do. Czisny won't be a technical coach but she can surely teach spins. Both of them also have the best skating skills of the bunch too. While everyone has been gawking over Wagner's power the past 2 seasons, her skating skills are still thin compared to Yuna Kim and Carolina Kostner. Edge and blade work wise, Czisny and Nagasu have shown great aptitude in these areas (check out their programs pre-2012), while Czisny lacks in power. Gracie is improving this area by working with ice dancing coaches and Angela Wang has a good basic skating skills like Nagasu circa Charlene Wong.

    Still, the rest of the world's ladies don't hold a candle next to Yuna Kim, Carolina Kostner, Akiko Suzuki, and (to a lesser extent) Mao Asada's step sequences.
    I hate to say this, but I don't know of any "headcases" who have made winning coaches, so Czisny seems wrong for that job.

    Are there any? Brian Orser maybe, but he had a lot of great competitions.

  12. #92
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    ^Is Frank Carroll coaching a top Senior lady at this time?

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by icellist View Post
    I strongly believe Mirai is still a contender in the US. I think the biggest problem for her the past few years have been her programs. The choreography for her past 3 LPs do not bring out the best of her qualities. I mean seriously, Spartacus has to be one of the worst programs Lori Nichol has choreographed. I see Mirai where Ashley was before the 2010 Olympic year. Mirai has medalled in at least 1 GP and been alternate for the GPF in the past 3 years. It shocks me that people on this forum are saying 'She doesn't want to skate anymore'. There have been no interviews in which Mirai said she wants to quit. To me, it seems Mirai is taking responsibility for her skating and balancing her family situation by leaving Frank, work with the coaches in her area and increase her off-ice conditioning. It seems like Frank tried to rush Mirai's maturation by skating to sophisticated programs and Mirai took that lesson with her the next season, but she should really be skating to whatever she likes or empowers her. Mirai has said that she lacks funding to hire top choreographers (like Lori Nichol who stopped giving Mirai good programs after she left Wong, except for POTC). She could go for Braden Overett or Cindy Stuart. Susan Austin just isn't in the same league, choreographing for juniors: you can easily see the difference in the step sequences. Jumps wise, Mirai has very similar jumping technique with Akiko Suzuki and will do well once she gets the rotation and gets rid of the hooking technique she learned from Wong. And people keep complaining that USFS has given her so many chances. USFS gave Flatt, Czisny, and Zawadski numerous chances. Mirai should've went to worlds in 2011. for the 2013 GPs, Mirai had a top 24 WR and top 11 SB and was bypassed a second GP for Zawadski. Even both of Zawadski's bronze medals at nationals are argued.
    Very well said!
    I will never give up on Mirai and cannot understand why she would be considered as a "past number".I think she did pretty good this season and scoring rather well despite being a late season bloomer(something she has not been able to show us since 2011 4CC as she has not been selected to any major competitions..).
    It is always interesting to listen to the French/UK Eurosport because they really seems to like her and most recently they thought she would have won the silver at NHK.Obviously,she could have done better in her Nationals LP but I loved her SP and that 3T/3T was the best of the season.It was rather sad to see how the judges buried her in the LP as I do not think she was worse than Agnes in that part of the competition.
    It is such a shame that her UR's are killing her especially as they are not always obvious for the general public but I hope that there is a way for her to get those landings "cleaned up" before the next season?Also, I hope she will find programs that appeal to her as much as they are supposed to appeal to the judges/public.I got the feeling that she really liked her SP this year and maybe she simply needs upbeat music for both of her programs?
    In the end of the day,she should have as much chance to get on the Olympic team as the other girls.I just wonder if she will get a second GP or if she will be "overlooked"..

  14. #94
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    And don't forget too that Mirai was very sick w the flu at nationals, she did very well regardless. I would like to see two skates from her when she is healthy and see how she compares...

  15. #95

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    Do any juniors, like Barbie Long, want to try to go?

  16. #96
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    Wouldn't anyone who competes Senior at Nationals next season have the dream of going to the Olympics?

    Quote Originally Posted by olympic View Post
    Is Frank Carroll coaching a top Senior lady at this time?
    I don't know of any right now, mainly due to the inconvenient location of his rink.

    I posted this in the U.S. Ladies thread yesterday:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Jeremy Abbott tweeted this photo today: "Guess who's back, back again. Czisny's back. Tell a friend! #firstdayfun #knockonwood" http://instagram.com/p/XC71Vmm8JK/
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  17. #97
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    Wouldn't anyone who competes Senior at Nationals next season have the dream of going to the Olympics?
    Heck, I'd go to the Olympics if they'd send me. (Not sure my waltz jump is going to get many points though... I could maybe do a L2 spin with negative GOE.)

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Originally Posted by Sylvia
    Jeremy Abbott tweeted this photo today: "Guess who's back, back again. Czisny's back. Tell a friend! #firstdayfun #knockonwood" http://instagram.com/p/XC71Vmm8JK/

  19. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blondie12 View Post
    And don't forget too that Mirai was very sick w the flu at nationals, she did very well regardless. I would like to see two skates from her when she is healthy and see how she compares...
    She didn't have the flu when she competed in the GP. At Cup of China, all of her triple jumps in the FS were UR or DG, and some of her doubles as well. At NHK, where she won silver, she received 4 URs in the FS.

    Mirai has learned a faulty jump technique and she won't succeed until she fixes it, if she even can fix it.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by euterpe View Post
    She didn't have the flu when she competed in the GP. At Cup of China, all of her triple jumps in the FS were UR or DG, and some of her doubles as well. At NHK, where she won silver, she received 4 URs in the FS.

    Mirai has learned a faulty jump technique and she won't succeed until she fixes it, if she even can fix it.
    True,her technique is not good enough..but, in previous years (at least in 2010 and again at 4CC 2011) she got better spring/height in and out of her jumps later in the season when her programs had more mileage..
    Look at Mao,she is very up and down with her UR's but she generally have fantastic programs to rely on.I don't think Mao or some of the other ladies are miles ahead when it comes to skating skills and Mirai has lovely nice arms and a good steady upper body.I wish she would/could try to find a choreographer that "understands" her and could really play with her strenght and personality..

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