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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    His plans for I/k was seemingly to ignore them and have volkov do everything. So they left "zhulin" rather be treated like crap.
    And now they got what they wanted. All hte coach's attention. Ilinyh at least. And where exactly did that put them? Or, right, nowhere. Mission accomplished!

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Zhulin might be bitter but he's definitely right. To see a team as extraordinarily talented as I/K stall their progress and skate those godawful Morozov 'programs' is just painful.

    I'd hope what happened at Worlds would be a sort of a wake up call for them but knowing their situation, it probably won't.
    The question is, did they stall their progress? At the Europeans they finished second, only 0.11 points below Bobrova-Soloviev (who finished 3rd at worlds) and easily beating Capellinni-Lannote (who finished 4th at worlds). So one can argue that the low results at worlds was one off, because of nerves or any other silly reason. Surely one bad competition doesn't indicate that a couple regressed?

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    The question is, did they stall their progress? At the Europeans they finished second, only 0.11 points below Bobrova-Soloviev (who finished 3rd at worlds) and easily beating Capellinni-Lannote (who finished 4th at worlds). So one can argue that the low results at worlds was one off, because of nerves or any other silly reason. Surely one bad competition doesn't indicate that a couple regressed?
    If it was another team no,not even B/S last year but I/K will be lynched for this. B/S won a medal with not even reaching their marks from Europeans,they completely messed up and still got huge PCS, so that says something.But them leaving Zhulin was a mistake,not coaching wise but PR wise.
    I guess if they survive this it will be for the best,but there so many people that don't want them to survive this. One competition was enough for these people.

    About Zhulin...from me no comment.I respect him as a skater and coach but doing this after these results is heartless. He's a 50 year old man talking about two kids that are practically teenagers.At least he should have shown some human feelings and concentrate on his success.But all he had to say about his couple was that they'd be 4th if the French were ok. I feel for B/S too, if someday they would try to leave him

  4. #44
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    IMO Zhulin still loves I&K. He talks about them like an ex-lover. He can't stop saying how awful and lazy they are, but he sounds passionate, and the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. As much as he's said he'd never take them back, he knows how good they are and I bet he dreams about choreo for them. I notice he always says how much B&S love to work as opposed to how good they are. He appreciates it, but with the natural talent of I&K he could really realize his vision.

    If I&K could go to a good coach/drill sargent for a couple of years and straighten themselves out, I'd love to see Zhulin choreo for them again someday.

    ETA: I also thought it was a bit harsh to say B&S would've been 4th had P&B skated well. I think it's true, and he says that so they don't get ahead of themselves for next year. Maybe it would be better to say that in private, though.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by TAHbKA View Post
    And now they got what they wanted. All hte coach's attention. Ilinyh at least. And where exactly did that put them? Or, right, nowhere. Mission accomplished!
    Euro silver medal almost winning it. It can't be denied Morozov has been better for I/K than Volkov or "Zhulin"

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    IMO Zhulin still loves I&K. He talks about them like an ex-lover. He can't stop saying how awful and lazy they are, but he sounds passionate, and the opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. As much as he's said he'd never take them back, he knows how good they are and I bet he dreams about choreo for them. I notice he always says how much B&S love to work as opposed to how good they are. He appreciates it, but with the natural talent of I&K he could really realize his vision.

    If I&K could go to a good coach/drill sargent for a couple of years and straighten themselves out, I'd love to see Zhulin choreo for them again someday.

    ETA: I also thought it was a bit harsh to say B&S would've been 4th had P&B skated well. I think it's true, and he says that so they don't get ahead of themselves for next year. Maybe it would be better to say that in private, though.
    Zhulin would have to show I/K he would actually be a coach to them.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Zhulin would have to show I/K he would actually be a coach to them.
    I think he has changed. Again, using the romance analogy, it's like I&K were his first marriage when he cheated with side projects, but now he is totally faithful to the next wife, B&S. I haven't heard about him doing anything else. I don't think Averbukh did a show this season. Surely Zhulin won't participate in anything until after the Olympics, then he might slack off a bit. He seems completely devoted to B&S right now.

    Like I posted earlier, I wish this version of Zhulin worked with I&K. I know I&K share a lot of the blame, but not all of it. P&B did better under Zhulin because they were more mature. As a junior team transitioning to senior, I&K needed the full and undivided attention of their primary coach. Even teaching discipline is part of that. Unfortunately, they did not learn anything from that whole debacle. They should taken the attitude that we'll show everyone, and work 1000x harder with Morozov to show that Zhulin was wrong.

  8. #48

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    If Zhulin was such an absentee coach, why does it appear that P&B have only positive things to say about him? P&B only left because Zhulin was only allowed to coach Russian skaters, right? It's not like P&B aren't afraid of speaking what they believe to be the truth.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by zotza View Post
    But all he had to say about his couple was that they'd be 4th if the French were ok. I feel for B/S too, if someday they would try to leave him
    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    ETA: I also thought it was a bit harsh to say B&S would've been 4th had P&B skated well. I think it's true, and he says that so they don't get ahead of themselves for next year. Maybe it would be better to say that in private, though.
    What were you two reading? He said they MIGHT have been fourth, not that they necessarily would have been fourth.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Euro silver medal almost winning it. It can't be denied Morozov has been better for I/K than Volkov or "Zhulin"
    At Euro 2011 -Zhulin's coaching- they were 4th place behind P&B (injured), B&S (gold medalist) and Kerrs (retired). So I don't think its big achievement for Morozov.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    He can't stop saying how awful and lazy they are,
    Piseev thinks that too.
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post3877949
    Last edited by elif; 03-18-2013 at 07:52 PM.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    If Zhulin was such an absentee coach, why does it appear that P&B have only positive things to say about him? P&B only left because Zhulin was only allowed to coach Russian skaters, right? It's not like P&B aren't afraid of speaking what they believe to be the truth.
    Isn't it possible being different teams at different points in their careers, that P&B and I&K had different needs, which were fulfilled for one but not the other? The reason I tend to believe I&K is because Nikita was very specific at the time that he had to look things up for himself in the rulebook or watch on youtube. If he had just said "Zhulin ignored us!" it would be easier to write off. Perhaps P&B didn't need to look things up because they already knew more than I&K, or they did not mind, and even enjoyed, doing their own research. I know they like to be more active in their own choreography. Whatever work Volkov did with I&K apparently did not leave them fully understanding what they were doing, and if they needed that, the coach should have made sure that's what they got.

    IMO, it's totally possible for it to be the case that both the ideas that Zhulin didn't spend enough time with them and that they were lazy about training are true.

    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    What were you two reading? He said they MIGHT have been fourth, not that they necessarily would have been fourth.
    Not a big difference, IMO. The point is he's leaving a door open for a healthy P&B to pass them, which I think would be better left to a private discussion with his pupils.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Isn't it possible being different teams at different points in their careers, that P&B and I&K had different needs, which were fulfilled for one but not the other? The reason I tend to believe I&K is because Nikita was very specific at the time that he had to look things up for himself in the rulebook or watch on youtube. If he had just said "Zhulin ignored us!" it would be easier to write off. Perhaps P&B didn't need to look things up because they already knew more than I&K, or they did not mind, and even enjoyed, doing their own research. I know they like to be more active in their own choreography. Whatever work Volkov did with I&K apparently did not leave them fully understanding what they were doing, and if they needed that, the coach should have made sure that's what they got.

    IMO, it's totally possible for it to be the case that both the ideas that Zhulin didn't spend enough time with them and that they were lazy about training are true.
    That's an interesting perspective I did not consider, but didn't P&B go to Zhulin because they found that Zazoui was not giving them her fullest attention? Zazoui was instead more focused on Delobel/Schoenfelder, who was the French #1.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    That's an interesting perspective I did not consider, but didn't P&B go to Zhulin because they found that Zazoui was not giving them her fullest attention? Zazoui was instead more focused on Delobel/Schoenfelder, who was the French #1.
    Could be that was more code for DelSchoes getting the politik of being coaches top team. I can't say I'm too familiar with P&B's experience with Zazoui, though, so I can't comment further.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mayra View Post
    Someone send Virtue and Moir to Zhulin! Only partially kidding...

    Sadly I think he is right on the money re: I&K.
    He is right on the money on Virtue & Moir too.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    If Zhulin was such an absentee coach, why does it appear that P&B have only positive things to say about him? P&B only left because Zhulin was only allowed to coach Russian skaters, right? It's not like P&B aren't afraid of speaking what they believe to be the truth.
    Because usually you speak nicely about your past coaches. There are a few exceptions, but most skaters have only good things to say about their previous coaches, and yet they left them...

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by elif View Post
    At Euro 2011 -Zhulin's coaching- they were 4th place behind P&B (injured), B&S (gold medalist) and Kerrs (retired). So I don't think its big achievement for Morozov.
    [/URL]
    Wasn't that their first senior season? I wonder how other couples place in their first senior season; surely 4th at the Europeans is not that bad!

  17. #57

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    Zhulin looks like Uncle Frester in that K/C. He did not age well (

  18. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Because usually you speak nicely about your past coaches. There are a few exceptions, but most skaters have only good things to say about their previous coaches, and yet they left them...
    I felt P/B were quite sincerer when they repeatedly told the press that they liked everything about Zhulin as a coach and they would never left him if it was up to them. They didn't have to make such strong statements if it wasn't true, what they said went beyond standard PC comments after break-ups.

    Also, I/K didn't only complained about Zhulin not being there for them. One of the complaints that Nikita voiced that surprised me was that Zhulin did not allow Tarasova to work closely with them. He said TAT really wanted to be involved in their preparation, but Zhulin kept her at distance, but now after they left him she will be able to work with them. This made me suspicious that I/K could have been brainwashed, combined with how different P/B comments about him sounded.

  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    Because usually you speak nicely about your past coaches. There are a few exceptions, but most skaters have only good things to say about their previous coaches, and yet they left them...
    It was reported in Russian articles posted here that P/B had to leave Zhulin because of the Russian federation's policy of not giving ice time to foreign skaters and not allowing Russian coaches to work with them during the preparations for the Olympics. Morozov was the only coach who was allowed to keep a few foreign students.

    When they left, they told the press they were looking for a coach who would have Zhulin's technique and who would continue Zhulin's work. I don't think you can pay a bigger compliment to a coach.

    Apparently Zhulin brought in Maxim Staviyski to work with both I/K and P/B. What a terrific opportunity for them! It was really visible in Nikita's techniue actually. He started swinging from deep edge to deep edge with that beautiful knee action that only Maxim Staviyski had in his generation. Glad to read in the interview that TAHbKA translated, that Staviyski is now working with Bobrova/Soloviev as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by babayaga
    One of the complaints that Nikita voiced that surprised me was that Zhulin did not allow Tarasova to work closely with them. He said TAT really wanted to be involved in their preparation, but Zhulin kept her at distance, but now after they left him she will be able to work with them. This made me suspicious that I/K could have been brainwashed, combined with how different P/B comments about him sounded.
    I believe this was a time at which TAT, as the consultant for the Russian team, was working at all camps and meddling in helping with everything from program choices to costumes. It wouldn't be surprising if Zhulin tried to keep her at arm's length because for I/K he was going for classy programs, pure presentation and understated costumes. TAT's philistine taste, for bombastic choreography and batsh*t crazy costume choices may not have suited his plans for I/K.

    Sorry, I know she is a great coach.

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    I believe this was a time at which TAT, as the consultant for the Russian team, was working at all camps and meddling in helping with everything from program choices to costumes. It wouldn't be surprising if Zhulin tried to keep her at arm's length because for I/K he was going for classy programs, pure presentation and understated costumes. TAT's philistine taste, for bombastic choreography and batsh*t crazy costume choices may not have suited his plans for I/K.

    Sorry, I know she is a great coach.
    Absolutely, she should not have been anywhere near them. Unfortunately, she has enough power to interfere from the outside and I suspect she was one of the people behind that coaching change

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