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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I think the difference between I-K and the other young dance couples that are coming through now is in expectations that have been placed at I-K. They got into seniors at the time when Dominina/Shabalin and Khokhlova/Novitsky just retired. On one side it was a huge opportunity for them, on the other hand they were suddenly expected to get great results in seniors based on their results in juniors, which can cause a huge pressure for the skaters. They were hyped because Russian dancers have traditionally had success, so the success was expected, but it is not easy to skate under such expectations when you re a young and relatively inexperienced (at senior level inexperienced) skater.
    There was an interview with Elena over the summer where she said exactly this. After their junior season everyone expected so much & when they did well on their first GPs the pressure grew even more, but after that she said whenever they made mistakes it felt like everyone was lining up to criticize them for not meeting those huge expectations straight away. It must be very hard to skate with that kind of pressure, much the same as we've seen with Liza & Adelina this week.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by morqet View Post
    Yes, in a way I think losing P/B and I/K as his students in the space of a couple of weeks was the kick up the backside Zhulin needed to get his coaching act together again.
    I agree. I preferred his choreo to what Camerlango is doing for P&B and Morozov for I&K, but I did see problems there at the time. He seems to be working really hard with B&S, as if he has something to prove. I wish this Zhulin could work with this I&K, but it's not to be.

    I wouldn't mind seeing both V&M and I&K to Shpilband, with Jennifer Swan tagging along and Shpilband continuing to work with Klimova and Fusar-Poli, and adding Grishuk. If training alongside such gifted skaters as V&M (which Elena has done before) and having these divas to put them in their place doesn't work, I don't know what will!

    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I think the difference between I-K and the other young dance couples that are coming through now is in expectations that have been placed at I-K. They got into seniors at the time when Dominina/Shabalin and Khokhlova/Novitsky just retired. On one side it was a huge opportunity for them, on the other hand they were suddenly expected to get great results in seniors based on their results in juniors, which can cause a huge pressure for the skaters. They were hyped because Russian dancers have traditionally had success, so the success was expected, but it is not easy to skate under such expectations when you re a young and relatively inexperienced (at senior level inexperienced) skater.
    This is a fair point. Why are I&K the disappointments when M&K, S&Z, P&G, etc do not even make the world team and only S&Z have a GP medal? I don't know if any of them are lazier than I&K, because they really aren't highly ranked enough for anyone to comment on them. I know the answer is because I&K are seen as more naturally talented, but it is a blessing and a curse.

  3. #23
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    Going from Zhulin to Morosov ranks up there with most stupid coaching changes of all time.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanca View Post
    I don't think he had enough time for them. He was participating in some shows... The fact that he takes a dig at them when they didn't deliver doesn't necessarily mean that he is right. I don't think I-K's performance at this worlds shows the accurate level they are at now. At Europeans they skated as a completely different couple; they were brilliant. I think they just let the pressure get to them at this worlds.
    Zhulin wasnt even the coach of I/k. he was a total absentee. He didn't care about coaching just his business ventures and all their time was with Oleg volkov.

  5. #25

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    Re-posting this 3-minute news report in English by TV-Novosti/Channel RT TV on Bobrova/Soloviev, coached by Zhulin, before Worlds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc6F8izqJU8
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Zhulin wasnt even the coach of I/k. he was a total absentee. He didn't care about coaching just his business ventures and all their time was with Oleg volkov.
    I read something similar from past interviews. That's why I think he shouldn't be criticising them. Or he should buy himself a mirror too.

  7. #27

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    It looks to me like he has already got at least one.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Zhulin wasnt even the coach of I/k. he was a total absentee. He didn't care about coaching just his business ventures and all their time was with Oleg volkov.
    And somehow they still managed to show up with what amounts to their best program in the last 3 years.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    Zhulin wasnt even the coach of I/k. he was a total absentee. He didn't care about coaching just his business ventures and all their time was with Oleg volkov.
    If this is the reason for their leaving Zhulin, then how was going to Morozov an improvement? He has many elite skaters and does choreography for more skaters. He seems to be constantly traveling (wasn't Leonova complaining about having to spend the summer in the U.S. In another thread?) Moscow, Latvia, Hackensack, Connecticut to name a few of his training sites. He has Amodio, Daisuke,Leonova in addition to his ice dancers.

  10. #30
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    Some people are happy to travel around and live in other places and to train in different environments.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  11. #31
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    Again, I don't know what really went on with Zhulin and I/K, but it is really common for skaters to feel they are not getting enough attention from coaches when the coach has multiple elite students, especially direct competitors. I've always been amazed we never had an inkling of that (to my knowledge) come out of Canton all those years. Even the "big split" doesn't seem to come down to that type of problem.
    Disclaimer: The post contained herein represents the opinions of a fan and may or may not bear any relation to reality.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by morqet View Post
    There were a lot of comments on both sides, and not just from I/K, but also Tarasova & Piseev. Everyone else now seems to have moved on though, apart from Zhulin himself.
    In what way hasn't Zhulin moved on? His new students are now European champions and world bronze medalists. Bobrova/Soloviev, who IMO don't have a fraction of I/K's extraordinary natural talent and whom many people had written out three years ago as a team that would be passed by I/K as a matter of course!

    Zhulin was asked a question and he answered it pretty politely. He thinks if I/K hadn't left, they would be fighting for second place now. Surely he had a plan for them. He is an experienced coach as well as a legend of ice dance, so he is entitled to his opinion. Whatever he and his team were doing with them was working miracles and it is now working miracles with Bobrova and Soloviev, transformed beyond recognition. Nathalie and Fabian couldn't find words enough to praise him and when they looked for a new coach they said they needed a coach with whom they could continue with Zhulin's technique. You cannot argue with results.

  13. #33

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    His plans for I/k was seemingly to ignore them and have volkov do everything. So they left "zhulin" rather be treated like crap.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    His plans for I/k was seemingly to ignore them and have volkov do everything. So they left "zhulin" rather be treated like crap.
    Are you making this statement from your personal observation? Otherwise it is their word against his and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

    However, if it is true that only Volkov was working with them, then Volkov is a fantastic coach and I'm surprised that they left him. On the contrary, many top couples should go to Volkov.

  15. #35
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    Zhulin might be bitter but he's definitely right. To see a team as extraordinarily talented as I/K stall their progress and skate those godawful Morozov 'programs' is just painful.

    I'd hope what happened at Worlds would be a sort of a wake up call for them but knowing their situation, it probably won't.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Re-posting this 3-minute news report in English by TV-Novosti/Channel RT TV on Bobrova/Soloviev, coached by Zhulin, before Worlds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc6F8izqJU8
    Thanks, Sylvia. Interesting.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    His plans for I/k was seemingly to ignore them and have volkov do everything.
    Well that seemed to work better than whoever whatever their current coach is doing.
    To think that fun is simple fun, while earnest things are earnest, proves all too plain that neither one thou truthfully discernest.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Asli View Post
    Are you making this statement from your personal observation? Otherwise it is their word against his and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

    However, if it is true that only Volkov was working with them, then Volkov is a fantastic coach and I'm surprised that they left him. On the contrary, many top couples should go to Volkov.
    Interviews when the with "coached" by zhulin was all volkov this and volkov that and when they left they said they wanted to be actually coached by a coach and not an assistant. There was no point in just staying on there when their results were bad and and their main person was just an assistant. If zhulin cares about coaching now that's different but I/k were not coached by him.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Well that seemed to work better than whoever whatever their current coach is doing.
    They never almost won euros before this year.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by caseyedwards View Post
    They never almost won euros before this year.
    Well the reigning champs were out. Lets not forget the team that "won" Euros was a team they beat a year before. I/k should be doing better than they are.

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