View Poll Results: Patrick Chan- most held up and overscored skater in history, in any discipline

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  • yes

    216 61.71%
  • no

    134 38.29%
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  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    Falls need a harsher penalty.
    Not only that, but multiple falls need to have increasingly higher penalties, so a skater cannot fall 2-3 times and still get very high marks overall. From the very beginning I had felt that -1 for a fall was too small a penalty. I used to like the SP in the 6.0 because it really was do or die. If someone fell on a jump, it was automatically -0.2 or -0.3 in the tech marks, out of 6.0. There was no technical deduction in the LP, but it often cost the skater in the artistic marks, if the fall was disruptive. I am not saying we need to go back to the 6.0 system, I would like to see more severe penalties for falls and sloppy skating.

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Yu Na never wins major events with poor skates. In fact she is never allowed to win a major event with even a merely okish skate as 2008 and 2011 showed, when many thought she should have won both times. No comparision to Chan at all.
    She lost both times because another skater (a different one each time) skated better than her, not because the judges slammed her for an 'OK' skate.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    She lost both times because another skater (a different one each time) skated better than her, not because the judges slammed her for an 'OK' skate.
    True, but my overall point is these events clearly show Kim is not Chan. Had she been she would be given the title easily both times (not saying she should have, just that she would have just because). Chan has to skate much worse than his competitors to be in any jeapordy of losing, and even then he rarely does.

    I could see the argument Kim is somewhat of a judges favorite, she gets some stratospheric scores when she skates well, but she is still no Chan and she has never won an event that caused glaring controversy, or any controversy, that I can think of.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emdee View Post
    ...

    Ten was on his feet but his PCS marks were bit inflated.
    Not the most defensive comment in this thread, but IMO, one of the most dismissive and underwhelming remarks, especially in view of judges' tendencies to manipulate PCS across the board, and particularly in view of D10's above average presentation skills, the choreographic concept for his programs and his surprisingly masterful performance execution.


    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Patrick gets inflated GOE all the time, its not just Kim...Inflated GOE for top skaters is normal. However as mentioned Kim doesn't have two world titles that are unearned along with constant other events. Kim lost two Worlds in close calls. And she's a better skater for it.
    IMO, the most observant and enlightening comment in this thread so far.

    Kudos also to Aussie Willy's astute metaphor and perceptive vision ... And, indeed, a smilie galloping on horseback is always marvelous to behold.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Simple question, has there been any skater who receives as many inflated scores and is held up and gifted undeserved wins and results as often as Patrick Chan. Yes or no.
    Who said he was held up and gifted? I'm wondering if you understand IJS?

    Chan won according to the rule book. Of course, you can argue that the rules should be changed in order to make falls punished harder.

    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Yes and he might be the most hated figure skater of all time too.
    No, he is not. Plushenko was.
    Last edited by Eyre; 03-18-2013 at 03:20 AM.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    Who said he was held up and gifted?
    Most everyone unless you were living under a rock the other night and many other nights. And I understand IJS perfectly well. I and others in this thread have already pointed out that he is overscored in almost every area- spins, many of his jumps, PE (even moreso when he falls and they dont change), IN. He was overscored on so many different things in the LP (and to a lesser degree the SP) there wouldnt be enough room to list them. Of course that is always the mantra of Chantards, you just dont understand the scoring system, and he deserves every point and deserves all his wins no matter how crappy he skates and how many times he stumbles and falls, and how well anyone else might skate, LOL! Well the public had better understand, or figure skating will continue to go extinct with disgraceful results like the other night.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Most everyone unless you were living under a rock the other night and many other nights. And I understand IJS perfectly well. I and others in this thread have already pointed out that he is overscored in almost every area- spins, many of his jumps, PE (even moreso when he falls and they dont change), IN. He was overscored on so many different things in the LP (and to a lesser degree the SP) there wouldnt be enough room to list them. Of course that is always the mantra of Chantards, you just dont understand the scoring system, and he deserves every point and deserves all his wins no matter how crappy he skates and how many times he stumbles and falls, and how well anyone else might skate, LOL! Well the public had better understand, or figure skating will continue to go extinct with disgraceful results like the other night.
    Why don't you Chanflantionists get a grip - Chan does not score himself, if you want to be angry at least direct your energy to the judging system if you think they've done your favorites wrong. Your constant bashing of the skater is completely misdirected and immature.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Chan has to skate much worse than his competitors to be in any jeapordy of losing, and even then he rarely does.
    .
    So why did you start a poll about whether he is overscored and held up, when you already know the answer? (the answer that is correct according to you, anyway)
    Who wants to watch rich people eat pizza? They must have loved that in Bangladesh. - Randy Newman on the 2014 Oscars broadcast

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    So why did you start a poll about whether he is overscored and held up, when you already know the answer? (the answer that is correct according to you, anyway)
    While it is common knowledge to virtually all that Chan is the most overscored and held up skater of the last 25 years atleast, the poll question was about whether he was the most in the entire history of the sport. Now I not old enough to truly know the answer to that so I was hoping some of the older posts who had seen skating in the 50s, 60s, and 70s had seen a skater who was amazingly even more held up and overscored than Patrick Chan. It seems by the poll results only a spare minority of even the older posters have.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by overedge View Post
    So why did you start a poll about whether he is overscored and held up, when you already know the answer? (the answer that is correct according to you, anyway)
    oh, but the language used in the question was completely neutral

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    While it is common knowledge to virtually all that Chan is the most overscored and held up skater of the last 25 years atleast, the poll question was about whether he was the most in the entire history of the sport. Now I not old enough to truly know the answer to that so I was hoping some of the older posts who had seen skating in the 50s, 60s, and 70s had seen a skater who was amazingly even more held up and overscored than Patrick Chan. It seems by the poll results only a spare minority of even the older posters have.
    Oh, I see, it was a perfectly innocent question in order to further your knowledge, obviously creating polls is the best way to get unbiased information.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Most everyone
    You mean the losers?!

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    You mean the losers?!
    So the whole EuroSport broadcast team who have been covering the sport for decades, thousands of skating fans, most skating writers at the event, and numerous fellow skaters who werent even skating at the event yet still took time to mock the result on twitter themselves are the losers, lol!

  14. #94
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    One thing to keep in mind is that the IJS makes it a lot easier to hold up skaters than before. Under the old system, you could beat someone by a hair in the SP or by a mile--it didn't matter. Your factored placements would still end up the same. Of course, that had its problems as well. I think the best judging system would be one that avoids either extreme, and we obviously haven't found it yet. But even though the old system was a bit clunky, it was more resistant to abuse.

  15. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    You mean the losers?!
    I'm no fan of this winner, but he gets it. =>
    "No disrespect to Patrick but a skater shouldn't be able to fall twice & get such high PCS," tweeted former U.S. and world champion Todd Eldredge.
    . . . Todd said in the past that Rudy Galindo made him a better competitor because Todd realized he could not hope that others were less prepared than him while expecting to win. He had to be as prepared as he could be, then do his best.

    . . . Rudy did a lot for figure skating by being an underdog winner.

    Could Ten has done a lot for figure skating had he been allowed to be an underdog winner? Probably a lot more than giving it to the expected winner when the expected winner could have lived with a 2nd place Silver medal and motivation to clean-up his act.

    . . . There are some out there wondering if ice is still slippery, which, in a fairly judged competition, should be the only source of drama.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 03-18-2013 at 04:52 AM.

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    Who said he was held up and gifted? I'm wondering if you understand IJS?
    Chan won according to the rule book. Of course, you can argue that the rules should be changed in order to make falls punished harder.
    Completely agree.

  17. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Could Ten has done a lot for figure skating had he been allowed to be an underdog winner? Probably a lot more than giving it to the expected winner when the expected winner could have lived with a 2nd place Silver medal and motivation to clean-up his act.

    . . . There are some out there wondering if ice is still slippery, which, in a fairly judged competition, should be the only source of drama.
    I sometimes thinking losing can be the best thing for a skater. For example I think 2000-2001 Yagudin was getting more than a little complacent. I think losing everything to Plushenko that year got his butt into gear for the Olympics. Kim I think showed up to 2011 Worlds unprepared and not her usual self probably thinking she'd win easily and well she didn't. I think it got her but into gear as well. Buttle lost Nationals to Chan the year he won Worlds..

    I think given the circumstances and the very questionable coaching decisions it would be the best thing for Chan to have lost this year. It would maybe force him to take a look at what's causing the inconsistency and work on it etc... Sigh.

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    If he had any sense, Patrick would say he was honored that the judges appreciated his skating but he could understand why the competition was so close and could have gone to Ten ... Just more proof he needs a figure skating coach that understands how to deal with this.
    I agree that could be smart, but give him respect for being a man and an athlete and not a public relations person. I think it's honorable that he had something to say for himself rather than polite nothings. At the end of the day he won, and he can't give or share the title. He must own it, and doing it proudly is not shameful. He may have stirred up argument, and even I might advise him to shut up, but honesty and standing behind one's work are positive things. I do think he probably believes what he says, and that counts for something to me. Also, Canadians will support him no matter what, right? So that should mean he has firmer ground to stand on.

  19. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I agree that could be smart, but give him respect for being a man and an athlete and not a public relations person. I think it's honorable that he had something to say for himself rather than polite nothings. At the end of the day he won, and he can't give or share the title. . . .
    I do not think he should give the title back or give it to Ten . . . I think he needs to be a man, and kick his future mother-in-law to the curb for meddling in a sport when she should be back in a dance studio.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 03-18-2013 at 06:27 AM.

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    I do no think he should give the title back or give it to Ten . . . I think he needs to be a man, and kick his future mother-in-law to the curb for meddling in a sport when she should be back in a dance studio.
    Hehehe

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