View Poll Results: Patrick Chan- most held up and overscored skater in history, in any discipline

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  • yes

    216 61.71%
  • no

    134 38.29%
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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    Falls need a harsher penalty.
    Amen. I think this is a large part of the problem.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emdee View Post
    Patrick was embarrassed by his skate but when all was said and done his short perfect program held him up.

    His two quads were phenomenal in quality.

    Ten was on his feet but his PCS marks were bit inflated.

    But Chan's PCS were even more inflated, and not just in the LP.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    I'm so glad the judges took that advance arithmetic course to crank out the numbers including % gain from GOEs so they know exactly what to give to D10 meanwhile telepathically communicate with their fellow judges so their average for D10's PCS for FS is higher than his SP but low enough to offset the D10's TES advantage + have the foresight to give PChiddy lower PCS for his FS compare to his SP meanwhile have D10 beat Patrick on P/E + take into consideration of PChiddy's -2 deduction and finally their SP differences so St. Patrick can be first overall and D10 wins the FS. All in a matter of a few minutes and maybe also help from a time machine.

    Figure skating judges rock at math.
    They dont need to do all that. Just keep giving Chan grossly inflated GOE and PCS across the board, regardless how he skates, +3s across the board on every clean element he does (which he doesnt deserve), 9s on all PC categories regardless of evne programs with falls and stumbles, and voilas win no matter how many times you fall or how well everyone else skates, guaranteed. Pretty simple really.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I think Yu Na is the skater who most often in all of history got 3 GOEs for ugly laybacks and spirals. These GOE points add up, so I'm not sure Chan should be singled out. In terms of how many points are given that are not deserved, Yu Na has her share.
    Yu Na never wins major events with poor skates. In fact she is never allowed to win a major event with even a merely okish skate as 2008 and 2011 showed, when many thought she should have won both times. No comparision to Chan at all.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    They dont need to do all that. Just keep giving Chan grossly inflated GOE and PCS across the board, regardless how he skates, +3s across the board on every clean element he does (which he doesnt deserve), 9s on all PC categories regardless of evne programs with falls and stumbles, and voilas win no matter how many times you fall or how well everyone else skates, guaranteed. Pretty simple really.
    Yet Denis Ten beat Patrick soundly in the FS and none of what you said happened. You are just making stuff up now to justify your blind hatred. Never change JJ.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    Yet Denis Ten beat Patrick soundly in the FS
    By about 10 points less than he should have and still not enough to prevent Chan from having yet another embarassing win that nobody agreed with, that experts and fans alike were disgusted by, that his fellow skaters even mocked on twitter soon after it concluded, and that further reduces the credability of the sport. As for everything I said, Chan getting +3s across the board for any element he does well, and 9s in PCS even for falling all over the ice, both are facts and have been proven many times, and one just hs to look at the protocals to see it shown that like all I said is correct. Now back under your rock.

  7. #67
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    So wait Patrick got +3s GOE all over the place and 9s in PCS and still lost to Denis Ten in the FS? What did Denis score? 4's and 10's? If you can't even read numbers then I don't know what to tell you.

  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    So wait Patrick got +3s GOE all over the place and 9s in PCS and still lost to Denis Ten in the FS? What did Denis score? 4's and 10's? If you can't even read numbers then I don't know what to tell you.
    Oh they gave him higher PCS than maybe they would have normally given him but probably because they knew they had to at least win the free skate. He still didn't cream Patrick on P/E like he should have.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    Oh they gave him higher PCS than maybe they would have normally given him but probably because they knew they had to at least win the free skate. He still didn't cream Patrick on P/E like he should have.
    Which goes back to my original point. They have a couple of minutes to figure all that out and doing computations on the fly in their head. What scores to give D10 enough for him to win the FS but not enough for him to win the overall competition. His PCS needs to be high enough but not too high to offset the advantage Patrick had over the SP because they must give Patrick the Gold. It's impossible to do.

    Tony Wheeler's blog was posted by someone in the Worlds' forum which I think is very insightful and I totally agree with. The judges are not holding Patrick up on purpose. It's the system that does not penalize falls enough and wants to encourage quads at the same time. That's the root of the problem. Tony's own judging even had less of a gap between D10 and Patrick in the FS!! Is he corrupted???

    Judging was fair given the system they had to work with but having said that I am in the camp that it needs to be tweaked.

    http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/0...p-at-2013.html
    Last edited by walei; 03-17-2013 at 04:01 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    I just saw a dead horse galloping by .....
    Try this.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    So wait Patrick got +3s GOE all over the place and 9s in PCS and still lost to Denis Ten in the FS? What did Denis score? 4's and 10's? If you can't even read numbers then I don't know what to tell you.
    Umm the mandatory points lost and -GOE for his many falls and stumbles come into play in the score too. How stupid are you that you need that explained to you, LOL! However with his giganteous GOE and PCS which are exagerrated to the point of insanity, and in the case of PCS dont drop at all even for glaring and disruptive falls and errors, he has about a 30 point or 5 fall cushion on all others. Hence why he can skate like crap and still win everytime no mater how well anyone else skates. Welcome to my ignore list, I dont have time to waste on trolls like you so dont waste your time typing nonsense posts to me as I wont be seeing or reading them anymore.

  12. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Someone said, I think it was Jirina Ribbens, that judges sometimes held up skaters using the figures competition marks because those marks/ordinals could not be scrutinized.
    "Sometimes?"

    BTW, when Norbert Schramm was interviewed by Manleywoman, he gave a very good example of skaters being overscored - actually more like underscored in his case - long before Chan was even born.
    http://www.manleywoman.com/episode-61-norbert-schramm/
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  13. #73
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    Yes and he might be the most hated figure skater of all time too.

  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by walei View Post
    Which goes back to my original point. They have a couple of minutes to figure all that out and doing computations on the fly in their head. What scores to give D10 enough for him to win the FS but not enough for him to win the overall competition. His PCS needs to be high enough but not too high to offset the advantage Patrick had over the SP because they must give Patrick the Gold. It's impossible to do.

    Tony Wheeler's blog was posted by someone in the Worlds' forum which I think is very insightful and I totally agree with. The judges are not holding Patrick up on purpose. It's the system that does not penalize falls enough and wants to encourage quads at the same time. That's the root of the problem. Tony's own judging even had less of a gap between D10 and Patrick in the FS!! Is he corrupted???

    Judging was fair given the system they had to work with but having said that I am in the camp that it needs to be tweaked.

    http://www.flutzingaround.com/2013/0...p-at-2013.html
    Look at Daisuke's PCS and then look at Patrick's PCS. an 89 is very high PCS for the skate Patrick put out on the ice. Hanyu is another example of someone who got hit quite a bit for not being up to par in PCS..

    Patrick very much was overscored on PCS. One could talk about generous GOE too. Other skaters get hit much harder than Patrick does when they screw up.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Yes and he might be the most hated figure skater of all time too.
    Even his peers dont respect him anymore it seems. There is no greater insult than that.

  16. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Umm the mandatory points lost and -GOE for his many falls and stumbles come into play in the score too. How stupid are you that you need that explained to you, LOL! However with his giganteous GOE and PCS which are exagerrated to the point of insanity, and in the case of PCS dont drop at all even for glaring and disruptive falls and errors, he has about a 30 point or 5 fall cushion on all others. Hence why he can skate like crap and still win everytime no mater how well anyone else skates. Welcome to my ignore list, I dont have time to waste on trolls like you so dont waste your time typing nonsense posts to me as I wont be seeing or reading them anymore.
    The bolded part really wasn't necessary. Now you're being nasty AND judgmental. I'm with Aussie Willy -- you're dragging that dead horse (hatred of Chan) around a lot. You'd probably feel better if you'd just let it go.
    Crazy about sports!

  17. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Even his peers dont respect him anymore it seems. There is no greater insult than that.
    I don't think thats the case.. He's a fabulous incredible skater. I know Adelina was all like I'm on the ice with Patrick Chan. What I think is not respected his wins...

    That's why the whole thing was unfortunate because I think Chan would be a beloved skater if he didn't have all these questionable wins...

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by bek View Post
    I don't think thats the case.. He's a fabulous incredible skater. I know Adelina was all like I'm on the ice with Patrick Chan. What I think is not respected his wins...

    That's why the whole thing was unfortunate because I think Chan would be a beloved skater if he didn't have all these questionable wins...
    This is what Patrick said in an interview
    “Obviously, I gave them the opportunity. I skated third (in the last flight). Denis could have won it, and I think he made one or two mistakes in his program and (the winning margin) was one point — he could have done it. And I’m sure he’s kicking himself today.

    “It was one point. There was no inflation. If there had been inflation, maybe I’d have had a 10-point lead after the (short). I had a great skate in the short program, and yet Denis had it. He just didn’t capitalize.”

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    This is what Patrick said in an interview
    “Obviously, I gave them the opportunity. I skated third (in the last flight). Denis could have won it, and I think he made one or two mistakes in his program and (the winning margin) was one point — he could have done it. And I’m sure he’s kicking himself today.

    “It was one point. There was no inflation. If there had been inflation, maybe I’d have had a 10-point lead after the (short). I had a great skate in the short program, and yet Denis had it. He just didn’t capitalize.”
    And he sounded condescending he also argued Ten made as many mistakes as he did throughout the competition. I don't think it should take perfection from other skaters if Patrick is all over the place...Patrick would be better of saying I won because of my short program lead and well I don't score the marks...Ask the judging panel.

  20. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    This is what Patrick said in an interview
    “Obviously, I gave them the opportunity. I skated third (in the last flight). Denis could have won it, and I think he made one or two mistakes in his program and (the winning margin) was one point — he could have done it. And I’m sure he’s kicking himself today.

    “It was one point. There was no inflation. If there had been inflation, maybe I’d have had a 10-point lead after the (short). I had a great skate in the short program, and yet Denis had it. He just didn’t capitalize.”
    If he had any sense, Patrick would say he was honored that the judges appreciated his skating but he could understand why the competition was so close and could have gone to Ten ... Just more proof he needs a figure skating coach that understands how to deal with this.

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