View Poll Results: Patrick Chan- most held up and overscored skater in history, in any discipline

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  • yes

    216 61.71%
  • no

    134 38.29%
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  1. #41

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    Falls need a harsher penalty.

  2. #42
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    What a stupid poll. Jesus.

  3. #43

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    From the Wikipedia entry about Sonja Henie:

    At the 1936 Olympic competition, [Cecelia] Colledge and Henie were virtually neck and neck with Colledge trailing by just a few points. As Sandra Stevenson recounted in her article in The Independent of the 21st April 2008, "the closeness [of the competition] infuriated Henie, who, when the result for that section was posted on a wall in the competitors' lounge, swiped the piece of paper and tore it into little pieces. The draw for the free skating [then] came under suspicion after Henie landed the plum position of skating last, while Colledge had to perform second of the 26 competitors. The early start was seen as a disadvantage, with the audience not yet whipped into a clapping frenzy and the judges known to become freer with their higher marks as the event proceeded.
    Based on that little anecdote, I would say the answer to your question is "no"
    We live in an ageist society where everything is based on youth, but I hated being 18. I don't like teenagers any more now than I did then. I'm 49 now and there is no way that I'd go back to my teens and 20s - even if I knew what I know now, I don't want to go through all that again. I found it a very difficult time. - Buzz Osborne of the Melvins

  4. #44

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    I don't know about history, since I started watching FS seriously in 1988, so I have only fragments of memories, starting in 1984. Before that, I don't remember much about the 1980 Olympics, and practically nothing after that, until 1984. In my memory, Chan has been held up more times than any other skater, including Carolina Kostner. She has made some ground though; she may be a close second now. Other skaters have been held up before, but less frequently. G&G were held up big time in the 1990 world championships, but that was the only time for them. B&S were held up a couple of times (2000 GPF, and the SP in 1999 Skate Canada- definitely not the 1999 worlds though). Chan has been held up many more times.

  5. #45
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    YES

  6. #46

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    Oh JudgeJudy, JudgeJudy. I have grown to love your polls on Patrick. You never fail to disappoint.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    Falls need a harsher penalty.
    If you fall on a jump, you deserve no credit at all, plus a penalty. I mean, how many falls were rewarded under 6.0?

    P.S. Did anyone else hear the rumor that next year Chan is going to be skating his exhibition program to Fleetwood Mac's "Hold Me"?

  8. #48
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    Calla Urbanski once remarked that judging was all done during practices. She explained it like this. Judges studied programs, and decided in advance a certain ordinal range you belonged in. They would not put you below a certain ordinal unless you left the building. These judges kept track of 4 minute programs with pencils and paper, and none of them had perfect talents for multitasking (and who knows how good their eyesight was). It makes sense to me that some would need to study the skaters' practices more carefully back in those days without having technology to aid them, and some relied on those practices heavily to rank a skater. What I am getting at is holding up skaters seems like it was more common in the 1980s and early 1990s than today.

    Someone said, I think it was Jirina Ribbens, that judges sometimes held up skaters using the figures competition marks because those marks/ordinals could not be scrutinized. The audience or public did not have an opinion on whose tracings were best. You might suggest this has parallels with scoring ambiguities today, but I think what is important is that prominent skaters in the figures era were known to be "held up."

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    Falls need a harsher penalty.
    And then you will start moaning nobody that IJS is stupid because nobody does the difficult jumps any more.

    Chan got shitload of points for both of his quads (which were near perfect, the solo one was probably the best quad in the history of skating) which is the result of people whining about quads not being worth enough.

    So now they are worth loads of points and you get Chan and Reynolds medalling, happy?

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    And then you will start moaning nobody that IJS is stupid because nobody does the difficult jumps any more.

    Chan got shitload of points for both of his quads (which were near perfect, the solo one was probably the best quad in the history of skating) which is the result of people whining about quads not being worth enough.

    So now they are worth loads of points and you get Chan and Reynolds medalling, happy?
    haha you will never catch me moaning about jump content.
    Last edited by AndyWarhol; 03-17-2013 at 08:16 AM.

  11. #51
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    I think Yu Na is the skater who most often in all of history got 3 GOEs for ugly laybacks and spirals. These GOE points add up, so I'm not sure Chan should be singled out. In terms of how many points are given that are not deserved, Yu Na has her share.

  12. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I think Yu Na is the skater who most often in all of history got 3 GOEs for ugly laybacks and spirals. These GOE points add up, so I'm not sure Chan should be singled out. In terms of how many points are given that are not deserved, Yu Na has her share.
    Too true.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I think Yu Na is the skater who most often in all of history got 3 GOEs for ugly laybacks and spirals. These GOE points add up, so I'm not sure Chan should be singled out. In terms of how many points are given that are not deserved, Yu Na has her share.
    Positions are important but that is not the sole feature nor the major one that adds GOE to those elements as there are plenty of other 7-8 GOE features to take into account. Weren't you aware of that already when Yuna's the not the only one who gets great GOEs on not the most aesthetically pleasing positions?
    http://www5.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/p...v-list,00.html

    FOR + 1 : 2 bullets FOR + 2 : 4 bullets FOR + 3 : 6 or more bullets
    1) good speed or acceleration during spin
    2) ability to center a spin quickly
    3) balanced rotations in all positions
    4) clearly more than required number of revolutions
    5) good position(s) (including height and air position in flying spins)
    6) creativity and originality
    7) good control throughout all phases
    8) element matched to the musical structure
    Last edited by l'etoile; 03-17-2013 at 08:42 AM. Reason: number of bullets needed for each GOE added.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I think Yu Na is the skater who most often in all of history got 3 GOEs for ugly laybacks and spirals. These GOE points add up, so I'm not sure Chan should be singled out. In terms of how many points are given that are not deserved, Yu Na has her share.
    The thing is, if you're nailing your jumps, most people aren't going to complain that much about this. It's when you start impersonating a Zamboni yet keep winning contests that people really start to care.

  15. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by neptune View Post
    The thing is, if you're nailing your jumps, most people aren't going to complain that much about this. It's when you start impersonating a Zamboni yet keep winning contests that people really start to care.
    This. Yuna has never won an event undeservingly.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I think Yu Na is the skater who most often in all of history got 3 GOEs for ugly laybacks and spirals. These GOE points add up, so I'm not sure Chan should be singled out. In terms of how many points are given that are not deserved, Yu Na has her share.
    Patrick gets inflated GOE all the time, its not just Kim...Inflated GOE for top skaters is normal. However as mentioned Kim doesn't have two world titles that are unearned along with constant other events. Kim lost two Worlds in close calls. And she's a better skater for it.

  17. #57

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    I just saw a dead horse galloping by .....
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  18. #58
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    I'm so glad the judges took that advance arithmetic course to crank out the numbers including % gain from GOEs so they know exactly what to give to D10 meanwhile telepathically communicate with their fellow judges so their average for D10's PCS for FS is higher than his SP but low enough to offset the D10's TES advantage + have the foresight to give PChiddy lower PCS for his FS compare to his SP meanwhile have D10 beat Patrick on P/E + take into consideration of PChiddy's -2 deduction and finally their SP differences so St. Patrick can be first overall and D10 wins the FS. All in a matter of a few minutes and maybe also help from a time machine.

    Figure skating judges rock at math.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    I just saw a dead horse galloping by .....
    Patrick was embarrassed by his skate but when all was said and done his short perfect program held him up.

    His two quads were phenomenal in quality.

    Ten was on his feet but his PCS marks were bit inflated.

  20. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    I just saw a dead horse galloping by .....
    Ew... didn't realise it's Melbourne Cup day soon! (And I just got back from hot last week and freezing cold this week Melbourne.)
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

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