View Poll Results: Patrick Chan- most held up and overscored skater in history, in any discipline

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  • yes

    216 61.71%
  • no

    134 38.29%
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dlbarker View Post
    Carolina Koster. Enough hyperbole.
    Actually outside of the 2008 Worlds and the SP of the 2013 Worlds (which I dont believe will change the final result, whatever that may be, in the end) I dont believe Kostner has ever been held up or overscored. That is only two times in a decade long career. Amongst women the most held up skater of recent times is definitely Miki Ando, although still no rival to Chan in that regard.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Simple question, has there been any skater who receives as many inflated scores and is held up and gifted undeserved wins and results as often as Patrick Chan. Yes or no.
    Good heavens! Is it the off-season already?


  3. #23
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    Is this the most redundant, tired, old, question/complaint in the history on figure skating? Chan doesn't score himself yet the hate directed towards him is just unbelievable.
    Unfortunately pretty much the whole men's event was a mess. Ten could have got it and it wouldn't have bothered me but be honest most of the contenders stunk the joint out at one point or another. What's a judge to do? Chan's not happy about it but what can he do? Accept it an move on. But it's abundantly clear to me that Chan could skate flawless and people would still find reasons to say he doesn't deserve it.
    Last edited by sequins; 03-16-2013 at 05:59 PM.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    Is this the most redundant, tired, old, question/complaint in the history on figure skating? Chan doesn't score himself yet the hate directed towards him is just unbelievable.
    Unfortunately pretty much the whole men's event was a mess. Ten could have got it and it wouldn't have bothered me but be honest most if the contenders stunk the joint out at one point or another. What's a judge to do? Chan's not happy about it but what can he do? Accept it an move on. But it's abundantly clear to me that Chan could skate flawless and people would still find reasons to say he doesn't deserve it.
    Great post. I was there last night and can't add more to what you wrote.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    What's a judge to do?
    Well last night give Ten the gold medal. Pretty obvious and pretty simple. Last year give Takahashi the gold medal at both Worlds and the GP final. Again pretty obvious and pretty simple. It doesnt have to be so complicated, it is the judges that are so desperate to invent new ways for Chan to win no matter how poorly he skates.

    Chan's not happy about it
    Oh please, Chan is more than happy with it anytime he wins, even if he were to fall 20 times. Even remember his comment in the kiss and cry of Skate Canada where he again had a 4 fall competition and won over a very good Oda (who had 1 fall over the two programs)- the judges wanted to give me that score. His own exact words.

    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    Is this the most redundant, tired, old, question/complaint in the history on figure skating?
    No, that would be Kerrigan-Baiul, Kerrigan-Harding, all things Kwan, and a number of other things. However Chans biggest legacy in the sport after he retires will not be his titles and achievements, 70% of which are heavily tainted by judging outcries, but probably as the most held up and biggest judges pet, who fell the most on his behind of any multi champion in history. Someone like Sasha Cohen who was a stunning skater in everyway besides inconsistent jumps (and not great skating skills which is in contrast to Chan, but she blows Chan to bits in some other areas) couldnt win major events if Kwan, Slutskaya, or Arakawa skated well with so much as one fall. Yet in terms of consistency and not falling, she is even a Katarina Witt of competitors and consistent jumping in competition suddenly compared to Chan, just without the titles as every fall for her meant 15 times as much as every fall for Chan.

  6. #26
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    Wow, give the poor guy a break. I don't post very often here but from the few threads I've read from you it's clear that you have some sort of deep hatred towards the guy. It's okay to disagree with results but you've developed a really unhealthy approach.
    You're now going as far as making up stats (70% lol) to try and prove I don't know what.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Well last night give Ten the gold medal. Pretty obvious and pretty simple. Last year give Takahashi the gold medal at both Worlds and the GP final. Again pretty obvious and pretty simple. It doesnt have to be so complicated, it is the judges that are so desperate to invent new ways for Chan to win no matter how poorly he skates.



    Oh please, Chan is more than happy with it anytime he wins, even if he were to fall 20 times. Even remember his comment in the kiss and cry of Skate Canada where he again had a 4 fall competition and won over a very good Oda (who had 1 fall over the two programs)- the judges wanted to give me that score. His own exact words.
    Yes just give it to them because you think so and that's all that matters and because your hatred for Patrick outweighs everything else.
    You honestly think Patrick is happy about this? Again blinded by hatred. If anyone pays attention by now it's obvious Patrick is not the most well spoken and articulate individual and sometimes things don't come out the way he intends. Even the interview on CBC news after this FS he stammered over his words and had to go back and try to correct himself because he knew he wasn't making himself clear. But everything someone says nowadays is taken at face value, ridiculed, picked apart and analyzed over and over again until it's twisted into something completely different. I think we all know in our own lives sometimes things don't come out right, or the way we intend but fortuately for us we don't have the world watching and a bunch of haters with their pitchforks ready to pounce.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sequins View Post
    Yes just give it to them because you think so
    Actually pretty much everyone thinks so in both cases, hence why Chan and his victory were heavily booed in an almost never seen display at last years Worlds, and why he even his fellow skaters ripping him on twitter and EuroSport disgusted with his win last night. It is you who are in a seperate World if you think I am the only one who thinks it is extremely obvious and would have been extremely easy (and created absolutely no controversy at all with anyone, in heavy contrast to what the actual result did) to give those wins to the aforementioned far more deserving skaters. YOU are the one who asked what the judges should have done, and so I gave you an answer to your own question, so dont go on your high horse now that I gave a suitable answer. The poll results also speak for themselves.

    As for your nonsensical so called Chan hater rants, I havent even commented seriously on Chan in almost a year now. That sure is a long time for someone who supposably I have the biggest axe to grind with. As a skating fan I hate bad judging, regardless if it is a skater I enjoy or dont. In Chan`s case it is just a comical issue that is better to make into a comedic type topic of sorts since it has happened so many times in the past, and everyone knows he is a special case when it comes to bad judging, being held up, and all that is bad about COP, and his self entitled attitude (contrary to what BS poor Chan sorrow for someone who was just gifted his 3rd World title for a crappy skate you are trying to imply) for all he gets or is given.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 03-16-2013 at 06:46 PM.

  9. #29
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    Yeah. His GOE is OTT. He got higher GOEs for spins in the FS than Hanyu...by a fair margin too. That is just all sorts of baloney. Patrick has a great 4T and great step sequences that are worthy of +2s when he hits them well, but nothing else in his skating should be getting +2s or +3s IMO, and even his beautiful quads and quad combos and step sequences should really only be getting the occasional +3 if at all, +3 needs to be saved for things that are really, really special which for Chan is SOMETIMES his 4T and step sequences, never anything else. Besides the quad his jumps are just decent, when he even lands them properly, and the spins are good but not great. Looking at his spin GOEs, you'd think he was Stephan Lambiel...one judge gave him a +3 for his final 2a too which was somewhat shaky

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Actually pretty much everyone thinks so in both cases, hence why Chan and his victory were heavily booed in an almost never seen display at last years Worlds, and why he even his fellow skaters ripping him on twitter and EuroSport disgusted with his win last night. It is you who are in a seperate World if you think I am the only one who thinks it is extremely obvious and would have been extremely easy (and created absolutely no controversy at all with anyone, in heavy contrast to what the actual result did) to give those wins to the aforementioned far more deserving skaters. YOU are the one who asked what the judges should have done, and so I gave you an answer to your own question, so dont go on your high horse now that I gave a suitable answer. The poll results also speak for themselves.

    As for your nonsensical so called Chan hater rants, I havent even commented on Chan in almost a year now. As a skating fan I hate bad judging, regardless if it is a skater I enjoy or dont. In Chan`s case it is just a comical issue that is better to make into a comedic type topic of sorts since it has happened so many times in the past, and everyone knows he is a special case when it comes to bad judging, being held up, and all that is bad about COP, and his self entitled attitude (contrary to what BS poor Chan sorrow for someone who was just gifted his 3rd World title for a crappy skate you are trying to imply) for all he gets or is given.
    So you know everyone? Good for you. I haven't read his 'fellow skaters' ripping him so I can't comment only to say is it his fault he got these scores? Anymore than it's S/S fault they got the scores they did? FYI I'm not on my 'high horse' I'm just pointing out that 'people' (and I never said it was only you but this is the thread you created so..) have so much hatred for someone who has no control over what the judges do. Why not focus on them instead, because it's just easier to blame Patrick I guess. Denis Ten could've/should've won but he didn't, no one else helped their cause by skating like crap why not rip them for not'living up to their potential. Whatever I'm done.

  11. #31
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    Never mind.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogazie View Post
    Wow, give the poor guy a break. I don't post very often here but from the few threads I've read from you it's clear that you have some sort of deep hatred towards the guy. It's okay to disagree with results but you've developed a really unhealthy approach.
    You're now going as far as making up stats (70% lol) to try and prove I don't know what.
    I agree. This judge jury has real issues with chan, sad.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbkenn View Post
    I agree. This judge jury has real issues with chan, sad.

    You mean judge judy.
    The judge jury has no issues with him

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by crzesk8dad View Post
    He only won by a smidge.

    Two falls and two other screw-ups and still the World Champion...by a smidge.
    WORD. I couldn't have said that better. Some skaters fall once, and cannot even make it to worlds..others fall twice, and WIN. And the skaters in question fall much more beautifully than the hapless Chan.

    What ever happeend to skating CLEAN?? If you continually fall on your wonderful, difficult 'program components', perhaps you are attempting a program that is too technically complex for you to be attempting to skate. Perhaps you should skate within your ability, recognise those limitations, and gear your program toward those. Oh. Wait....the program component score MUST be a score for what componenets are in your program...NOT how well you execute those compnenets. Now, I GET it...

    But..but..but...Gach... uh, never mind.
    Last edited by Triple Axel; 03-16-2013 at 09:26 PM.

  15. #35

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    I don't know if Chan is the most over-scored skater in any discipline in the history of the sport but he is certainly the most consistently over-scored skater today! Don't get me wrong, I admire Chan's skating very much. At his best, as he was in the short program, he is divine. But there's something very wrong with a scoring system that rewards the guy who falls the most with a world championship!

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Axel View Post
    WORD. I couldn't have said that better. Some skaters fall once, and cannot even make it to worlds..others fall twice, and WIN. Give me back my 6.0, dammit. At least I could understand how folks won and lost. I'm NOT a mathematician...it's a pity now that skaters HAVE to be...
    Really?

    Can you tell me the rankings of the relative rankings of skaters in this particular Short Program:

    Skater #2:

    5.5 5.4 5.5 5.4 5.0 5.4 5.5 5.3 5.2
    5.3 5.3 5.5 5.2 5.2 5.3 5.2 5.4 5.3

    Skater # 5:

    5.4 5.4 5.2 5.0 5.0 5.3 5.0 4.9 5.3
    5.7 5.4 5.5 5.1 5.4 5.5 5.3 5.1 5.5

    Skater #10:

    5.5 5.4 5.5 5.4 5.0 5.4 5.5 5.3 5.2
    5.3 5.3 5.5 5.2 5.2 5.3 5.2 5.4 5.3

    Skater # 11:

    5.4 5.4 5.2 5.0 5.0 5.3 5.0 4.9 5.3
    5.7 5.4 5.5 5.1 5.4 5.5 5.3 5.1 5.5

    Skater #12:
    5.2 5.7 5.5 5.6 5.0 5.7 5.4 5.4 5.4
    5.6 5.8 5.6 5.8 5.6 5.7 5.5 5.6 5.5

    Skater #17

    5.1 5.4 5.3 5.2 5.0 5.4 4.8 5.1 5.2
    5.4 5.6 5.4 5.3 5.3 5.4 5.0 5.3 5.5

    Skater #27

    5.0 5.0 5.6 5.4 5.1 5.2 5.3 5.3 5.4
    5.1 5.3 5.6 5.1 5.0 5.3 5.4 5.0 5.4

    I'm not sure it can be done without knowing the marks of at least some of the other skaters in the competition, but for those looking for the answer, point your brower to

    Now tell me the rankings of skaters in this particular Short Program:

    Skater # 11 63.76
    Skater # 15 62.14
    Skater # 16 61.92
    Skater # 21 61.36
    Skater # 28 64.64
    Skater # 29 63.02
    Skater # 30 64.76

    Spoiler




  17. #37
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    nope. D/W are

  18. #38
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    I think the judges just have to go back change their approach. Even if a certain skater is worth 9's in the components, they shouldn't give them those components if they have a poor skate, they should be dinged there. It's not happening enough with the top guns like Patrick and Carolina (who are superior in skating ability to the rest, JUST talking about skating skills etc.).

    In the ladies today Carolina got higher components than Mao, this was clearly not the right way to do things based on how they skated. Caro's program is worth 9's, and I think in terms of skating she is superior to Mao, but the judges need to take into account the quality of the skate when they do those component scores. Therefore Carolina should have had lower components than Mao today since one clearly outskated the other. Hope I'm making sense! Been a long day here in London.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cbd1235 View Post
    I think the judges just have to go back change their approach. Even if a certain skater is worth 9's in the components, they shouldn't give them those components if they have a poor skate, they should be dinged there. It's not happening enough with the top guns like Patrick and Carolina (who are superior in skating ability to the rest, JUST talking about skating skills etc.).

    In the ladies today Carolina got higher components than Mao, this was clearly not the right way to do things based on how they skated. Caro's program is worth 9's, and I think in terms of skating she is superior to Mao, but the judges need to take into account the quality of the skate when they do those component scores. Therefore Carolina should have had lower components than Mao today since one clearly outskated the other. Hope I'm making sense! Been a long day here in London.
    Well the thing with Mao vs Carolina is Mao also had some glaring and disruptive mistakes, just as Caroline did.

  20. #40
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    Yeah I know.

    It's just that in the building Mao had a champions performance that brought the crowd to it's feet, Carolina left the crowd confused and scratching their heads. The fall at the end just threw everything off. I didn't realize until these worlds how disruptive falls actually are.

    Don't get me wrong, I love both skaters, and I'm not trying to derail this. It was simply an example

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